jbh Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Hi, Here is a link to my aquarium journal. The tank has recently developed a brownish stringy but fragile algae growth. It grows in a Web on the sand first, and has started to grow on my toadstool and birds nest frag. The birds nest is loosing tissue, and looks like it is not going to make it. Here are a couple of photos. You can see it growing on the snail and the small rocks. It is hard to photograph on the sand. Yesterday, after a full photo period, there were small air bubbles trapped by the algae. I just got back from a 10 day trip, and the algae was much worse. I have done 2 50% water changes, and reduced my light intensity by 50%. Fuge light is on 24 hrs now, from 12hrs. Parameters after the water changes are: PH 8.3 Salinity 34ppt Cal 480 Alk 8.5 Nitrate 0 Ammonia 0 Any help is much appreciated. Quote Link to comment
Lula_Mae Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 Look up dinoflagellates and see if it's similar to what you're experiencing. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted January 20, 2018 Share Posted January 20, 2018 I've had a reddish brown web like algae develop on my sand. It never went further than that and no one could help identify it because it wasn't stringy with bubbles like dino and it never was thick and slimy like cyano. Just looks like webs wrapping around sand grains. I had it in my 15g and now in my 25g. I worked on it like any other algae because I never could 100% identify it. In my 15g to get rid of it I Tested nutrients I reduced photo period by 3 hrs Added small quantities of phosguard, started using purigen, cleaned all pumps, hoses, filters etc. Removed bits of sand every week, washed and replaced it. Fed corals very lightly if at all during this time Did bigger water changes. After a month or so it was gone. Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 20, 2018 Author Share Posted January 20, 2018 Here is a picture of it growing on the toadstool. It looks bacterial. And seems to die off overnight. I might do a full clean of the tank, new sand, scrub and rinse in clean sw rocks, clean tank, pumps, and plumbing with peroxide. Any advice on cleaning my cheto? Or should I buy some clean cheto from reefcleaners? Should I set up a qt for my coral? And slowly move back into the tank? Or is there a dip that will attack the bacteria/algae? Other weird thing is I have had my nassarius snails die in the tank. Slowly, and one by one... maybe linked to this? Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I am not certain if that's bacterial, cyano, or dino. @seabass @brandon429 Can you help? Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hey that's pretty neat challenge ID Can you post a pic of it elsewhere in the tank, sandbed or elsewhere. Trying to exclude it being cast out zooxanthellae, coral self adjustments etc that happens and looks like those strings. If it's something tank-wide I'm not sure truly, but a good rip clean will fix it up till better preventatives are found. Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 Here are 2 more from earlier today. Funny thing, I have been lights out for 2 hours, and it has started to recede on the sand and rocks, but definitely still there. Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 @brandon429 do you have a good writeup of how far you can take a "rip clean" without going into a cycle? I did a quick search of your posts, and found a bunch of quick descriptions, but no in depth post of a major rip clean. Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-official-sand-rinse-thread-aka-one-against-many.230281/page-7#post-4107442 There's a good one with other people's tank being worked start to finish Truly yours may not be bad even if it is light cyano, can be siphoning it out to attempt a simple guiding out, clean later if noncompliant etc. One interesting factor of a rip clean is it's never harmful, even if a tank doesn't need one. We can do a deep clean as preventative as well, all we do in these is brainstorm before where detritus will be, plan our sensitive animals around isolating them from the waste while we clean, and any depth of clean we want to do then is cycle free. Though yours might respond to easy work light siphoning, if you rip cleaned it's not harmful it's just a good couple hours work. Yesterday I installed a new heater. Salt creep had caked up around my lid, some algae deposits on the lid and I need to reinstall the heater wiring and clean up biologically. I'm taking my reef apart real quick even though it's not invaded at all. Since I'm doing wiring and cleaning I'm hitting the sandbed clean real quick for a good clean 18 start. I'll probably repeat in the summer. This is why my reef is 12, nothing is done reactively. Hands off reefing where one would never rip clean is fine too, that's how we all start and some like it. My reef is too old to risk that way, it's ironic the deep cleaning method is the less risky technique. It's a cheat clean method, doesn't bother me one bit if another considers my tank not 12 since it hasnt dealt with its own waste naturally. Im simply trying to see how long a given set of rocks and coral will go. Sand either way didn't matter to me, I keep it so my rocks are raised up of the bottom of the tank, most like them on glass directly, prefs range Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 Matter of fact,i think I'll run grab three pounds new sand and change it out real quick. Mines dwindled down last couple years, my original bed was about seven inches deep about to fix that all up. Swap it for new sand, not add back to the old. Completely changing a reefs sandbed via skip cycle is pure repeatable science, really helpful at times. Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 I think I'm going to end up doing a half rip clean. I need new sand, as the old sand is 5yrs old from previous tank owner, and he was using pH buffers and other additives that may have compounds that have settled into the sand. And I'm not 100% happy with my scape, so I'll pull all rocks out, remove frags, scrub and re scape. Going to do a deep clean of the tank itself, and order some clean cheao and a more diverse clean up crew. Plan on doing this next weekend. I'll update my aquarium journal with the results. Thanks for all the input. I'm using that link as a guide for this cleaning. Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Hope you like this The first on demand rip cleaning ever done in reefing. A live time example using my own investment. About to add pics back to sr thread. enjoy nothing more than applying all risk science right in my own home. the benefit lands in my reef. When a vase dwindles down the corals are packed closer together because the bottom converges. This old bed was three years, the previous bed nine years (hands off method breakaway) and this new bed raises up my scape twice the bottom room it's wonderful update. It'll last till 2022 ish Here's all steps live time: Before shot. Some cyano, thin bed, lost an acro colony on right cuz I had not fed in a while and that frag didn't like it/rest have adapted. The reset allows me to feed better now, more room, more reflective surfaces it's a positive, not insulting thing to do. I rinsed my new sand in tap for half an hour to prep, to make cloudless. Then saltwater rinse Then put back my 12 yr rocks n coral all raised up. On demand, skip cycle 100% substrate switch out is straight up biology yes it is Before, during, after change: Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 This could be repeated without harm three times a week if someone wants. It only seems insulting, it's actually flushing. Allows you to feed big-time. I'll be more assertive in weekly work this year. Above is the scummy before pic tiny sandbed left from years of cleaning. Corals packed in bottom. Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The middle phase including tap sand rinse a long long time on the new sand. I do not use the included clarifier for reasons covered in the thread. By pre rinsing, I now have a cloudless sandbed for the next forty eight months or so. Please know this as the most important takeaway: it is impossible for my reef to ever be invaded with anything. Unimaginable peace of mind I promise. As this reef runs one thousand percent uninvaded the next four years, I'll simply go on working tank invasion threads constantly to try and spread the benefit of preemptive work, i hope you like your custom rip clean example ! It's great timing. It needed a pick me up. Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 And the final phase completed about an hour ago Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Vase looks great. Going to do a fw rinse on sand tonight, and a sw rinse / scrub of rock. Lights back on tomorrow. Hopefully that will get me through to next weekend when my sand and reef cleaners order arrives. Thanks for all the advise. Still no positive ID on my algae or bacteria invasion? Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 No so sorry on ID I can’t tell My best bet is it’s a strain of cyano in my opinion Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 If you're waiting on new sand, why not just remove your sand now rather than remove it, wash it and replace it to remove it, wash new sand, and then having to add the new sand. 5 yr old sand bed from a previous owner is more than likely the culprit. Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 All back open and hungry. 24 hours after a correct order of ops rip cleaning, a reef tank is stronger than its ever been. It's a boosting/refreshing/energetic action which is only positive. It was a misnomer all along that deep action was risky. Partial action is risky Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 So I ended up pulling everything apart last night. Rinsed rock and coral in clean saltwater. Rinsed sand in tap, then rodi, then soaked in saltwater. Did a 100% water change. Rinsed chaeto in clean sw. Clown, I didn't want to go bare bottom, and since I have to take the tank apart anyways to put in the new sand, it wasn't that much work to just clean the sand I have. And ultimatly, if this doesn't solve the problem, I'll use the new sand and new rock to start a new cycle in a separate tank (picked up a 10 gal at petco for $11) and start over with new rock. Lights on today with reduced photo period, reduced reds and greens, and reduced intensity. Everything is starting to open up. I clipped the dead parts off the birds nest. It is trying it's best to recover. We shall see. 2 Quote Link to comment
brandon429 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Fantastic cleaning, linked to sand rinse thread last page Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 22, 2018 Author Share Posted January 22, 2018 Thanks. I'm not counting this as a success just yet. Time will tell if I'm headed in the right direction now. Thanks everyone for your help. Quote Link to comment
Clown79 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Looks good. An old sand bed can really cause a lot of issues. Just washing it can make a huge improvement. Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted January 29, 2018 Author Share Posted January 29, 2018 So I'm about a week after my rip clean, and the stringy algae is starting to grow on the sandbed again. I have been feeding the tank heavily, mainly to keep enough leftover food around for all the new snails. I'm trying to avoid a die off that will lead to an ammonia spike. I have a much more diverse clean up crew now, so we will see if they can keep it in check. My new sand arrived finally. I'm thinking I might just replace the sand. But a problem I see is just recontaminating the new sand, since I will be reusing my old rocks. Maybe I could do a peroxide dip of the rocks before putting them back in the tank? Another option is to transfer everything to a temporary tank, and restart this tank with new rock, sand, etc. If I do this, my question would be about salvaging corals without contaminating the new tank. Or if it is even worth it... Others thoughts on this would be appreciated. Quote Link to comment
jbh Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just wanted to provide an update to this. It looks like I had some sort of cyano bloom stemming from imbalance of nitrates and phosphates. I had low nitrates, and phosphate at 0.75 ish. I think this is a result of overfeeding. Both uneaten fish food, and too frequent reef chili feedings. I have scaled back feedings, shortened my photo period, started doing frequent water changes, and running my fuge 24hrs. I have some gfo on order, and will mix a small amount in with my activated charcoal if needed. Once phosphate is down, I'll try to isolate the source a bit better, but I think it is mainly from overfeeding the reef chili. Still getting some cyano, but want to lower phosphate slowly. Quote Link to comment
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