Corals doing poorly

[Lula_Mae]

22 hours ago, burtbollinger said:

essential oil defuser..interesting...then again, its the plug-ins that are the really bad ones.

 

other random things:

what are you testing your alkalinity with?  are you SURE its accurate?  

 

You're not spiking the alk. upwards when dosing?  (from experience, If dosing 2 part, I'd not do it unless I had a Hanna checker or something handy, trustworthy, and keeping an eye on Alk. daily or every other day. I crashed a tank taking educated guesses)

 

For the refractometer, should you not be calibrating to 35/1.026 with calibration solution?

 

Temp at 77.5...thats the low end of things...how sure are you on that?  is this dropping at night or anything wierd?

I've been calibrating with distilled for nine years, it's worked pretty well.  Still the original refractometer I got from DFS back in the day.  I also run 78-79 max, I like that there's more cushion should it be hot in the house or something, less likely to overheat imo. I know there's others on here that run 77-78 as well.

[Clown79]

24 minutes ago, Lula_Mae said:

I've been calibrating with distilled for nine years, it's worked pretty well.  Still the original refractometer I got from DFS back in the day.  I also run 78-79 max, I like that there's more cushion should it be hot in the house or something, less likely to overheat imo. I know there's others on here that run 77-78 as well.

I run my 25g 77-78, 10g 79-80, 5g 78

 

If the temp was 74 or below or above 85 I could see that effecting their corals 

[AshleyH]

On 1/25/2018 at 12:48 AM, burtbollinger said:

what are you testing your alkalinity with?  are you SURE its accurate?  

API test kits- droppers

On 1/24/2018 at 11:51 PM, seabass said:

Next, get a Salifert magnesium test kit. 

On order

 

On 1/24/2018 at 11:51 PM, seabass said:

Testing fresh saltwater will also double check your test kits.  If your saltwater doesn't mix to an acceptable level, switch your salt mix.

Doing this tomorrow after work... will update with results

 

On 1/25/2018 at 12:06 AM, Lula_Mae said:

Maybe he got bumped with a rock during the great angel chase of 2018? 

Unfortunately it happened before the great angel chase

 

On 1/25/2018 at 12:48 AM, burtbollinger said:

For the refractometer, should you not be calibrating to 35/1.026 with calibration solution?

 

Temp at 77.5...thats the low end of things...how sure are you on that?  is this dropping at night or anything wierd?

Distilled water has a specific gravity of 1.000 and should be standard for calibration

Temp stays stable... maybe  increases by 0.3 degrees throughout the day 

 

So far everything is looking decent the past 2 days, but the brain hasn't come out yet

[Clown79]

The distilled solution I use has a sg  of 0. Store baught Distilled has no salt in it, there should be a 0 reading. Is it the refractometer reading 1.000 or is the solution labeled as sg 1.000 ?

 

When you calibrate the refractometer, you have to adjust it. So when using calibration fluid of 35ppt, if your refractometer is reading 36, 37, 34 ppt etc etc it needs to be adjusted to 35ppt.

[seabass]

5 hours ago, Clown79 said:

The distilled solution I use has a sg  of 0. Store baught Distilled has no salt in it, there should be a 0 reading. Is it the refractometer reading 1.000 or is the solution labeled as sg 1.000 ?

Distilled solution has a salinity of 0 ppt, but a specific gravity of 1.000.  With a working refractometer, it's possible to calibrate with just distilled water (or RO water).  But in the case where the refractometer is poorly made, the reading could deviate more as you approach a specific gravity of 1.026 (salinity of 35 ppt).

With such a refractometer, you would get more accurate readings when calibrated with a calibration solution with a salinity of 35 ppt.  Testing against two different known values can tell you if your refractometer suffers from "slope miscalibration".  However, I find that calibrating to 0 ppt usually gets you pretty close, even it it isn't perfect.

[Clown79]

10 hours ago, seabass said:

Distilled solution has a salinity of 0 ppt, but a specific gravity of 1.000.  With a working refractometer, it's possible to calibrate with just distilled water (or RO water).  But in the case where the refractometer is poorly made, the reading could deviate more as you approach a specific gravity of 1.026 (salinity of 35 ppt).

With such a refractometer, you would get more accurate readings when calibrated with a calibration solution with a salinity of 35 ppt.  Testing against two different known values can tell you if your refractometer suffers from "slope miscalibration".  However, I find that calibrating to 0 ppt usually gets you pretty close, even it it isn't perfect.

Funny you mention that. I started calibrating with the distilled solution mine came with and 35ppt solution just to ensure things were correct.

[Flexin]

Hi Ashley, 

 

It can be a few things, but based on my tank, it was the leathers.  As people said, if you want them, going forward you would need to change the carbon often.  Chemipur does not last 4 months.  Me personally, I found a great home for my leathers and everything improved going forward in my tank.  I simply was not changing out the carbon enough and was OK with finding them another home.

[Pjanssen]

On 1/24/2018 at 11:24 PM, AshleyH said:

YES my husband is an obsessive "deodorizer" (cats+ dogs= smelly house---> candles, occasional Febreeze on the couch across the room, essential oils diffuser across the room.

Likely a factor

On 1/24/2018 at 11:24 PM, AshleyH said:

I'm not sure why, but my alkalinity wants to be 6 and Ca wants to be around 300 if I don't dose.

Have you tested your fresh saltwater mix before doing water changes? Doesn't seem like there is anything in your tank that should be consuming that much alkalinity, and nothing that would be consuming noticeable amounts of calcium. Like Seabass said, you may need a different salt mix if you want your levels higher. Keep in mind that natural seawater has a dKH of only around 7, and calcium around 410. determined that when I lost a beautiful and very expensive gold aussie torch that it was from too much flow. Hope you can turn things around, but even if you lose these corals try not to be terribly discouraged. We've all lost corals and fish and...Unfortunately for the livestock, it's how we learn. Good luck. keep us posted. 

[jambon]

What settings are your lights at? I think a natural day length ramping up in am and down in on. I rely on my salt mix to keep my alk / calc. In line. I have some corals but not enough to tax my systems reserves between water changes. I change 10 % weekly. I do not think in my situation a need for adjusting my calc and alk. I use red sea salt mix which I M O works well. It is best not to chase the levels around as this may stress the tank. I have  never used the salt mix you use so have no opinion there.

   I keep a cherub angelfish in my tank... He picks at the corals a bit but I think he is robbing them of there dinner more than munching the polyps down. 

   Do you use a protein skimmer ? 

[AshleyH]

On 2/8/2018 at 8:04 PM, Flexin said:

found a great home for my leathers and everything improved going forward in my tank.  I simply was not changing out the carbon enough and was OK with finding them another home.

Since the torch coral died my leather looks fantastic. I do find it a little suspicious.i am looking into the carbon, by not wanting to change too many things at once since all has settled down and is well again. 

[Tamberav]

BRS RoX is a wonderful carbon. Since your husband sprays crap around the house, you absolutely need it. I change mine weekly, could probably get by with every 2 weeks though.

[gone_PHiSHin]

how much BRS rox carbon are you guys using, per how many gallons?

 

i use a little more than a tablespoon in my IM10's media basket, changed out every 2-4 weeks.  i've always wondered if this was too much/too little.

[AshleyH]

OK everyone, I've been too busy to update the thread until now. I'll try to answer everyone's questions, but here's an update as well. Thank you for the input!

 

I compared my tank water on Jan 28 to Fritz/RODI water both at a Sp.G of 1.023

 

My tank water:

kH- 8.0

pH-7.8

Ca- 430

Mg-1335

 

Fritz/RODI water:

KH- 7

pH- 8.3

Ca-340

Mg- 1275

 

Fritz/RODI at Sp.G of 1.026:

kH-8.5

pH-8.3

Ca- 380

 

I prefer the values given at 1.026, so I've been mixing water to that these past few weeks. I also backed off on the 2 part dosing to see what happens without it.

 

No dosing: kH dropped to 5.5 and 6 (tested February 14 and today)! Wow... something is seriously sucking my alkalinity up? 

 

After the torch coral died all the other corals seemed to magically do fantastic. The leather is giant and beautiful now. The edges are folding in and it's clearly growing. The owner at the LFS has gotten to know us a bit and gave me a free acan frag because he felt bad. This is doing well so far. The original brain is back to doing pretty well and opening up a lot 

 

From Jan 28-Feb 14 Burt my tail spot blenny stopped eating. We opened a new package of mysis shrimp and from that point on he went downhill. We fed veggie pellets, but he was not interested. He used to peck at my algae in the tank but also stopped. On Feb 14 he died  We found the body under a rock and removed it. I'm pretty sure the bristle worm was eating the corpse. No external signs of illness other than some weight loss and near his last day- some shredding of the tail fin. I personally think he got very stressed out during the chase for my coral beauty angelfish and never recovered.

Both clown fish are doing well. 

 

I got the Sailfert Mg and Phos kits.

My phos has been between 0-0.03

Past 1.5 weeks I've had a green hair algae bloom in one corner of the tank. Tried to take the rock out and scrub it- not very helpful. 

 

This past weekend we added a small sixline wrasse, 3 trochus snails, and a porcelain crab. All are doing well.

I have a bunch of green (and a little purple) coraline algae growing on the back wall. 

I got the InTank media basket. Haven't bought the rox carbon yet

 

I have to say I am pleased with how the tank is doing past 2 weeks aside from Burt dying.

 

On 2/10/2018 at 8:36 AM, jambon said:

What settings are your lights at? I think a natural day length ramping up in am and down in on. I

I have the Daylight channel from 8:30-6pm

Sunrise/Sunset (Beautymax) from 8:00-6:30pm

Moonlight (blue) from 10am-11:30pm

On 1/27/2018 at 2:31 AM, seabass said:

"slope miscalibration".

Hadn't read about this before. Sure, the refractometer could be slightly off, but I don't think that was the underlying problem. Thanks for the info.

 

My temp has been a stable 77.8 +/- 0.1

 

Pic from 2 days ago

If you notice on the back wall (and on my rocks) are what I think spirorbid worms. Could they be using up alkalinity? There are tons of them.

 

 

 

[Pjanssen]

Your corals look great. Nice pics! Can't really tell for sure about the specks on the back wall, but kind of looks like calcium precipitation.

[Clown79]

Everything is looking good. 

 

Sorry to hear about the blenny.

 

I myself have had no luck keeping a tsb. None of mine were interested in nori strips or veggie flakes but loved mysis and reg. Pellets.

I suspect it's lack of algae in the diet. 

 

I'm not sure why when the torch died everything else was fine. 

 

 

[Flexin]

My PH is lower in my 65.  I started dosing (and I don’t normally dose anything) eight-four.  I’m almost a week in.  That may be an option if you want the ph up.  I decided to try this since some fish I’ve purchased did not make it and I’m down to the ph as a factor.  When checking live aquaria I may have needed a higher ph.  Mine was had a low of 7.92 and now the low is 8.  Seems to be working and the good thing, slowly.

 

1 hour ago, Clown79 said:

Everything is looking good. 

 

Sorry to hear about the blenny.

 

I myself have had no luck keeping a tsb. None of mine were interested in nori strips or veggie flakes but loved mysis and reg. Pellets.

I suspect it's lack of algae in the diet. 

 

I'm not sure why when the torch died everything else was fine. 

 

 

Clown, do the crabs need an anemone or do better with one?  I’ve had one for about 8 months living among my nems.

 

also Clown what is your ph range?  I still get the swings even running a refug 24/7.  I use to only run it 12 goes opposite of lights but still had te swings.

 

[Clown79]

43 minutes ago, Flexin said:

My PH is lower in my 65.  I started dosing (and I don’t normally dose anything) eight-four.  I’m almost a week in.  That may be an option if you want the ph up.  I decided to try this since some fish I’ve purchased did not make it and I’m down to the ph as a factor.  When checking live aquaria I may have needed a higher ph.  Mine was had a low of 7.92 and now the low is 8.  Seems to be working and the good thing, slowly.

 

Clown, do the crabs need an anemone or do better with one?  I’ve had one for about 8 months living among my nems.

 

also Clown what is your ph range?  I still get the swings even running a refug 24/7.  I use to only run it 12 goes opposite of lights but still had te swings.

 

I don't test ph. It fluctuates all day.

 

It's the worse thing to chase and usually ends up with negative effects when trying to alter it.

 

Alk is the one parameter I test regularly as it's truly what effects corals the most.

 

If alk is normal, ph is fine. They work together. So when you try altering ph, it can effect alk.

 

I'm not sure what crabs you're asking about?

 

 

 

[Flexin]

24 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

I don't test ph. It fluctuates all day.

 

It's the worse thing to chase and usually ends up with negative effects when trying to alter it.

 

Alk is the one parameter I test regularly as it's truly what effects corals the most.

 

If alk is normal, ph is fine. They work together. So when you try altering ph, it can effect alk.

 

I'm not sure what crabs you're asking about?

 

 

 

Porcelain Crabs. 

 

I have an apex on the tank so I see it move.  I can focus on Alk.

[Tamberav]

I have had porcelain crabs host all sorts of things including xenia. They do seem to prefer nems though and will sit on a simple rock flower nem.

[AshleyH]

I didn't realize the crabs hosted things... maybe that's why he's been sitting on my leather ?

 

[Flexin]

I wanted to mentioned it just in case you wanted a rock flower nem

[Tamberav]

2 hours ago, AshleyH said:

I didn't realize the crabs hosted things... maybe that's why he's been sitting on my leather ?

 

 

ohh.. ya.... regular porcelain crabs do not but you have a porcelain anemone crab. That would be the reason he is chilling in your leather. Mine did that too

 

Here is mine hanging out!

 

anenomecrab by Tana Jahangier, on Flickr

[AshleyH]

Just got home tonight and found the porcelain crab dead. WTH!! I am so upset right now. I feel like I have the worst luck. Was it my low alkalinity? I just saw the crab this morning sitting on a rock and now, dead on the sand. It's not a molt. 

 

We'll do another water test tonight. It's really getting frustrating when random deaths are happening and I can't find an answer to even one of them. 

Something is obviously wrong with my tank... why is it so hard to figure out?

 

[Tamberav]

I'm sorry  I don't think alk would be the culprit. 

 

Is it possible the sixline harassed him? 

 

Your husband use any sprays today?

 

Any large water changes? 

[Sneds]

Sorry to hear about your crab, they are very beautiful.  I know your going crazy, you are doing all the right things, something that I have not seen anyone mention is new tank syndrome.  I understand your tank is around 5 months, that still is a very young reef tank.  It could just be that.  You were dosing, changing salts, trying to correct everything like we all have done.  Maybe just keep up with your water changes, run a bit of regular carbon and let things go.  There's an old reef tank saying "good things take a long time, bad things happen fast".

 

In one of my past tanks, I had a very hard time keeping just about anything.  I had very successful tanks in the past, and yet, this one was really testing my sanity.  I read about stray voltage in the water, bought a cheap grounding probe and BAM.... everything took off.  No more issues.  A freaking grounding probe?  (I have one on all my tanks now, I really don't know if they help).

 

Its hard to just sit and coast, but sometimes its the best thing.  I don't know if "new tank syndrome" is an actual thing, but I have learned from experience the hard way that slowing down is sometimes the best option.  My reefing friend once told me "you cant grow a garden in 2 months!"   You are doing exactly as you should.  Stick to one salt, stop dosing anything and do water changes, your tank will catch up, give it some time.  Good luck.