Pico Light Survey

[MedievalITGuy]

When I set up my first Pico tank, I was very dissatisfied with the lighting options that were available for tanks below 5g. Everything I found was some combination of over-powered, expensive, impractical, had poor color rendition, or was just plain ugly to look at (I'm looking at you, Par38 ). As of the start of the Creative Container Pico Contest, not much seems to have changed in this regard. For my own personal use, I've solved this by cobbling together a DIY light inside of an Ikea desk lamp. Knowing it's limitations, since I built it myself, I can't say as I have any real complaints with it, but it got me wondering if there was a way to get this light out to the general public. The simple solution would be to put out a DIY article, so other tinkerers could follow in my footsteps. But what if I could get it produced and distributed as an actual product? How awesome would that be? One of the steps required to do that, is to get a design finalized, and tweaked so that it meets the needs of the people who will be using it on their much loved tanks, and that's where you all come in!

 

What features would you love to see in a light dedicated to Pico tanks? What functionality would make you never even want to look at another Par38 bulb again?

 

For instance, my top features are:

1. The light body needs to look sleek. If my wife says "What is that thing on your desk?!", it's no good to me.
2. It needs to be inexpensive, less than $60.
3. It needs to include a goose-neck.
4. It needs to have either a free-standing base, or clamp big enough to attach to desk/table edges.
5. It has to have good color rendition and "pop" for corals.
6. It needs to be dimmable
7. It needs to have a timer included
8. It would be nice to be able to adjust the color, but not necessary if the pre-set ratio looks good enough to begin with.

 

Feel free to add anything that pops into your head, no matter how simple, or outlandish. Assuming that I can get this product off the ground, and turn it into an ongoing business, I plan on having multiple versions of the light, so even stuff that wouldn't make it into the base model might get added to a premium version later on.

 

So what do you all think? What would make a perfect Pico light for you and your tank(s)?

[MedievalITGuy]

If anyone's interested, here's the v.5 prototype that I've been using on my pico bowl for the past year. I'm planning on trying to achieve a similar look in the final product, but there are some drawbacks to this particular lamp.

 

[MainelyReefer]

Kessil A80, end of discussion.  In regards to below 60$ don't be cheap and ask for an included gooseneck and all the knickknacks. Save up buy the kessil.

[MedievalITGuy]

3 minutes ago, GraniteReefer said:

Kessil A80, end of discussion.  In regards to below 60$ don't be cheap and ask for an included gooseneck and all the knickknacks. Save up buy the kessil.

Glad to hear your opinion. From what I've seen of the light, it's an amazing option for a lot of nano tanks, and I would love to have one. As a light for a pico tank, however, I feel like it has two major drawbacks that I am trying to solve with a new design.

 

First, it is very overpowered for 1-2gal tanks (or even smaller in some cases). From what I understand, many people are using this light on 5-10gal tanks, and sometimes up to 20.

 

Secondly, part of the spirit of pico tanks is that they are inexpensive and easy to set up. For a larger tank, the pricepoint on the A80 is amazingly low, but when you can set up a pico with a $10 air-pump, and a $25 heater, $125 for a light, without even a mount seems a bit excessive.

[MedievalITGuy]

@GraniteReefer is there anything in particular that you like about the A80? Just the fact that it's a Kessel, or are there specific features that you find indispensable?

[MainelyReefer]

1.) it's arguably underpowered for my IM4 maxing out at 15w(5w less than the CFL my 1.75g competition bowl uses which is too little light IMO on the bowl likely due to spread) and the A80 is capable of dimming down to very low.  10g and above is a pipe dream for the A80, and I would say 5g is a stretch due to shape of the tank and spread from the light.

2.) the whole spirit of a pico thing makes me want to vomit, again just being CHEAP.  An A80 is not amazingly cheap for a larger tank either(or any tank as it's not the point), $ per watt the prime HD blows it away.

Prime HD cost per watt is $3.64

Kessil A80 cost per watt is $8.60

The light you want to sell is cool, I'm not trying to take that away from you, I just think manufacturers have already cornered the market, especially if nanobox produced the light they are giving as a prize in the competition, although that may have a fan(unclear) which would make it less than desirable.

What makes the A80 desirable is the fact that it can satisfy all but #2 and #4 of your original checklist with manufacturer available components.

[natalia_la_loca]

I like all the top features from your original post. Would love a light with a really compact form. The one over your pico bowl looks great in that regard.  I love the price of my par38s and they grow coral, but they look janky AF. Which is why my reefbowl pics almost never zoom out to show the light 

[seabass]

I like the look of that $10 IKEA lamp, with that gooseneck arm.  I'd kind of like something like that, which accepts a standard PAR16 bulb (like a typical desk lamp).  This 15W bulb is actually a PAR16.

I assume that this size reef bulb will become more common in the future.

 

A built-in timer would be nice, but isn't necessary.  I can also live without a dimmer.  Actually, just a basic aquarium controller (like an Apex Jr. or RK Lite) makes a lot of sense for a pico, with a temperature controller and light timer.  So a standard desk lamp (or even a gooseneck mount), PAR16 reef bulb, and controller would be my ultimate pico package.

 

As for your commercial light project, maybe an inexpensive 15W fixture with: good color, small size (like a PAR16), 80° lens optics, and a tall gooseneck arm.  I'd prefer it sit on a desk versus using a clamp.  I would also actually prefer it not to be controllable, dimmable, or have a timer (just to keep the cost down, but obviously those features have some value).  The price point, for me at least, would be around $30 (one bulb included, if it accepts screw in bulbs).

 

Really, I'd like the fixture to accept screw in bulbs so they can be changed out (but that's not a requirement, especially if the fixture had a custom lens which covers all five LEDs to better blend the light and reduce the disco effect).  And it would be nice if you offered a few different PAR16 bulbs, with different wattages and different color combinations (as some people like more blue than others).

[vlangel]

I love the looks of your prototype lamp, how clean and sleek it is.  Like seabass I am not as concerned about it being dimmable or having a built in timer (probably because none of my tanks have that now).  I also would like to see the price as affordable as possible.  This pico contest has shown me that a very fun and satisfying reef can be had without breaking the bank.  I would like to see a light fixture that is still in keeping with that spirit.

[MedievalITGuy]

Thanks for the responses everyone.  It's interesting to see that not everyone thinks the dimmer and timer are necessary features. 

 

My current plan is to have the second commercial version of the light be able to interface with a controller for dimming and timing on a more fine tunable level, or perhaps include a feature rich controller of it's own. I'd like to design a stand-alone controller someday too, but both of those options are way more advanced than the basic light, and thus would require much more development time and capital. I'm looking for something simple to start off with, so that it can get to market quickly, and satisfy most Pico reefer's basic needs, so I can find more elaborate projects. Hence the reason I'm asking for both basic needs, and advanced features it would be awesome to have.

 

Forthe first version, it will probably be just a lamp with an analog dimmer knob (if it has one at all) and a simple timer that you set with a button.

[MedievalITGuy]

10 hours ago, seabass said:

Really, I'd like the fixture to accept screw in bulbs so they can be changed out (but that's not a requirement, especially if the fixture had a custom lens which covers all five LEDs to better blend the light and reduce the disco effect).

Part of the reason I do not like PAR bulbs, is that they use separate lenses for each LED, which makes for bad color mixing, from what I have seen. The prototype I've been using has 4 LEDs in it, all on a single chip (12W total, and I have had good success so far, even though they are being very under-driven because the heatsink isn't large enough). This allows all 4 diodes to be very close together, and can be used with a single lens. Essentially it is a high powered RGB LED, but with reef appropriate spectrum instead of just colored diodes. With just re-using the lense that came with the Ikea lamp I have very low disco effect. The 4 quadrants of the tank do have slightly different coloration (one section is more white, and one is more aqua, rather than royal blue) but I am confident that this is something that can be solved with the appropriate lens/diffusion film combination without significantly lowering the PAR of the lamp.

[MedievalITGuy]

I've also given thought to making the timing/dimming/etc as plugin modules. that scheme definitely wouldn't be included in the first iteration, but how cool would it be to just buy the features you want, and ignore the rest!

[seabass]

If it doesn't affect the sleek design and doesn't substantially raise the cost of the base model, then that's cool.  Again, since I could buy a desk lamp for around $20 and a PAR16 reef bulb for less than $10, I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot more than $30 on the fixture (but that's me).  However, since there aren't a lot of choices for a sleek fixture, and PAR16 LED reef bulbs still aren't mainstream, maybe people would be willing to spend more.

[MedievalITGuy]

35 minutes ago, seabass said:

  Again, since I could buy a desk lamp for around $20 and a PAR16 reef bulb for less than $10, I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot more than $30 on the fixture (but that's me).  However, since there aren't a lot of choices for a sleek fixture, and PAR16 LED reef bulbs still aren't mainstream, maybe people would be willing to spend more.

Well the goal for this project has always been to keep the end product at or below $50 MSRP. The lower I can bring that the better, but I haven't gotten as far as looking at a supply chain, so I don't know where the final price will end up.

[Big E reef]

This light is something I am searching for right now! As far as the things i would want:

 

50-60% the price of the kessil a80 (much more then that and I would just buy the kessil)

 

Some kind of elegant form factor (ie Not par16 24 30 ECT.)  The whole point of having these tanks is because they are interesting and beautiful, why would anyone want to ruin that with some kind of a system that looks like a teenager growing pot.

 

Doesn't  need to have adjustable spectrum, as long as the one it has is nice. Adjustable intensity would be nice.

 

With all the timers and smart plugs on the market now ( bought a few smart plugs at best buy for Xmas for $14 each, and can program timers on them from my phone) I don't need a timer on it, but I would like to be able to switch between day light and actinic without any daily intervention. 

 

I really like what you have going here and hope this all comes to fruition 

[Ranjib]

Love the goal of this project. Please keep us posted. I run couple of A80s for my pico, but I can totally see the value of your work. I have been able to mod ABI bulbs and made them dimmable, which is an inexpensive option, but they are way more powerful. Whatever you come up with, I am sure we can make it dimmable & day light cycle features with 15$ extra cost, 

 

godspeed, keep up the DIY spirit. 

[pj86]

Really like this discussion.

 

Been doing pico lights for about 4 years now. If you need any advice on how to get off the ground PM me.

[Reefkid88]

Where are these lights being talked about ? 

[aqualassie]

I love the form of your prototype.  My pico will live on my desk at work.  I want it to be unobtrusive and leave a small footprint.  While I do have permission to keep a pico with a small lamp running,  I do not want to be the reason that small tanks are now forbidden in the office.  :-)  I don't need or even want a dimmer for my purposes.  Screw in replaceable bulbs.  I agree with @seabass with about $30 being my desired price point.  This is an awesome project.  Please keep us posted.

[MedievalITGuy]

Good to see people are still interested in this. I might as well leave a status update here, as I don't yet have a dedicated place/page for info and announcements.

 

I've more or less settled on the actual LED diodes and configuration, as well as the driver for them, not much more work needed on that side, other than getting enough ordered to start rolling out prototypes to people. The next steps are finding a heatsink that will keep up with the LEDs, an appropriate lens to minimize color separation, and a supplier of gooseneck material (you'd be surprised how hard it is to find someone selling it not already incorporated in some other product). 

 

I haven't made much progress on said items in February, mostly because finances are kind of tight coming out of the holidays.  I might look into getting this crowdfunded at some point, to move things along faster, but I want to A: have a reproducible prototype to show, and B: understand the implications of such a campaign before I open one up. I am attending a meetup on the subject in a couple weeks, hosted by a local startup incubator, but in the meantime things are moving slowly as my  budget can handle it. 

Not all is looking bleak however. I chatted a bit with my grandfather over a family get-together, and it turns out he has a friend who is working with 3D-printed aluminium. That could end up opening the doors to a lot of cool design options for the heatsink of the "bulb", as long as it doesn't end up being too ridiculously expensive. I've seen an article or two that suggests it can have better heat dissipating properties than milled/cast aluminium, which could reduce the size a lot too.

To bring this back to the "survey" nature of the thread, let me pose another question  
@aqualassie, @seabass, and anyone else I missed who said they wanted a screw-in type bulb. What makes you want something like that? Is it the ability to chose your own lamp base, the ability to change spectrum, replacing the bulb when the LEDs go, something else I'm missing? I originally conceived this project as a unibody lamp, and I think that a standard light socket would add a lot of bulk that could be cut out by having a fixed head. So I'm curious what your reasons for wanting a replaceable bulb are.

[seabass]

1 hour ago, MedievalITGuy said:

So I'm curious what your reasons for wanting a replaceable bulb are.

Yeah, pretty much.

• It should help to keep the cost down of the fixture
• More potential options regarding the number of LEDs, Watts, spectrum, and optics (eventually, there should be a lot more PAR16 options)
• The ability to switch out bulbs due to failures, and the ability to change spectrums/intensities if desired
• It would be easier for you to create a fixture with a standard socket than to work out the details of heat sinks, optics, etc.

[Big E reef]

Sign me up for one as soon as you start rolling out

[Big E reef]

Also, hope this helps 

http://www.flexible-gooseneck.com/applications.html

[MedievalITGuy]

22 hours ago, seabass said:

Yeah, pretty much.

• It should help to keep the cost down of the fixture
• More potential options regarding the number of LEDs, Watts, spectrum, and optics (eventually, there should be a lot more PAR16 options)
• The ability to switch out bulbs due to failures, and the ability to change spectrums/intensities if desired
• It would be easier for you to create a fixture with a standard socket than to work out the details of heat sinks, optics, etc.

Sounds like we're imagining two different products then. The idea behind this project is pretty much to have a stand-alone light that you can plug in and start reefing with, and it all started because I wasn't happy with PAR bulbs. I have considered offering multiple bulb options, but chances are it's not going to end up interfacing to a standard light socket, because I'm trying to create something more sleek and compact, as well as fix some of the flaws I've seen in the PAR bulbs I've owned. Still, it's good to hear that there are people interested in just a gooseneck, as you're right, that's probably something I can easily get into production in addition to what I'm imagining.

 

 

16 hours ago, Big E reef said:

Sign me up for one as soon as you start rolling out

 

16 hours ago, Big E reef said:

Also, hope this helps 

http://www.flexible-gooseneck.com/applications.html

Thanks, on both accounts, I'll have to get ahold of that company and see about getting some samples to work with. I'll also post here when I get some kind of beta signup, or first production run going, so you guys will be the first to know 

[SimonL]

@MedievalITGuy Any news on your project? I would be very interested 🙂