Pissed off corals

[FISHnChix]

So I have something going on I have no idea why my corals are so pissed. I have an anemone that moved,  trumpet coral ,mushrooms , and flower pot corals that are all retracted.. So weird bc not too much changed.  All my levels are good but to low? Zero ammonia 0, nitrates 0, nitrites 0, phosphate 0. Ph 8.1 and temp 78 .

 

So for months corals have been great but I had marine velvet and was fallow for 80 days.. I got super excited bc this weekend I was able to add a small clown fish from my qt to my main 32 gallon biocube. Before I added my fish Friday I did a 7 gallon wc. During this time I pulled about a quarter of cheato out. I always clean my rear chambers minus the first one, this time I cleaned the 1st chamber too. On Saturday I added my clown who is doing fine. But each day my corals have been shrinking.  Very weird I have not noticed my clown messing with any coral yet they are all retracted and my super small anemone has moved which is weird. Fyi i run charcoal and phosguard in an in tank media basket.  I usually change this media once a month.  I didn't change it last week because I changed it over a week ago during my weekly water change. And my calcium,  alklinty , and magnesium where all in spec before the water change. I can post exact levels if needed.  I buy my rodi saltwater from the lfs..

 

What am I missing? Something is wrong bc every coral is acting weird.. throw some idea out bc I am lost..

[Clown79]

Maybe the anemone stung them when it moved

 

Possibly Params swings from the waterchange.

 

Do you test alk between waterchanges?

 

Do you test your lfs water because it could be that

[Mike P]

Seems like everyone gets grumpy this time of the year ??

[FISHnChix]

3 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Maybe the anemone stung them when it moved

 

Possibly Params swings from the waterchange.

 

Do you test alk between waterchanges?

 

Do you test your lfs water because it could be that

So this started on Sunday and it was just one coral having a problem . Then monday it was every coral besides the small nem. Tuesday is when them nem finally moved so it's not the nem stinging ...

 

I tested the tank for everything before the water change and documented it. Did not test the lfs saltwater though.  Yesterday I retested the ammonia , phos, nitrates,  and nitrites, ph. Didn't have time to check the ca, mg, or alk. I will check those today.. I didn't really think  the ca, or mg would effect the corals like this and I was assuming the alk would be ok since my ph was good..  I will check today after work and post...

[FISHnChix]

I did pull the phosguard and charcoal last night.. hope that helps... wondering if I should do another wc this evening...

[FISHnChix]

Ok just tested my levels again

Ammonia 0
Nitrates maybe a little more than 0
Nitrites 0
Ph 8.1
Phos 0
Ca 400
Mg 1200
Alk 2.7 meg/l , 7.7 dkh...

Corals looking worse than ever !!! .. please help any ideas would be great.. I'm about to do a 100 percent water change haha

[Clown79]

Have you tested the water you use to mix the salt with?

 

All these issues occurred after the 7g waterchange.

 

Your corals retracted then your nem moved. 

 

Which seems that it's possibly the water used, so doing another waterchange with that water wouldn't improve a thing if it's something with the water. 

 

Or parameter swings, possibly something got into the water?

 

0 nitrates and phosphates isn't ideal. Are you feeding your corals?

 

Are you running carbon?

 

Any heater issues?

 

 

[FISHnChix]

5 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Have you tested the water you use to mix the salt with?

 

All these issues occurred after the 7g waterchange.

 

Your corals retracted then your nem moved. 

 

Which seems that it's possibly the water used, so doing another waterchange with that water wouldn't improve a thing if it's something with the water. 

 

Or parameter swings, possibly something got into the water?

 

0 nitrates and phosphates isn't ideal. Are you feeding your corals?

 

Are you running carbon?

 

Any heater issues?

 

 

So I don't mix my own saltwater at this time . I have been buying it from the same lfs every week for 6 months.. never tested it, but I have another 7 gallons I can test tonight.

 

Hope nothing got into the water. Would be hard though bc I run it with the hood on and on the one who feeds and my wife knows not to clean the tank or table it sits on.

 

I was running activated charcoal but I pulled it.no I don't carbon dose. Should I put the charcoal back In? 

 

I feed my corals the same reef roids I've had for months now. Twice a week.

 

Heater has been rock soild every time I have checked the temp it's 78.5

 

Is my alk. Too low ? Normally I run I 8's to 9 . And now I'm 7.7. The day of the water change it was like 9.5. That's a huge swing I would think?? My ph is normally 7.8 and now it's actually better bc it's 8.1.. I would have thought having low alk would have caused low ph...

 

I do have some of seachem ph buffer . It is supposed to raise ph to 8.3 and they claim no matter how much you use it's won't go over 8.3. Also it says it raises your dkh by 1.. should I try that or maybe read up on how to raise alk , I belive there is a way to do so by using baking powder or soda??

 

I have to try something because nothing is getting better.  I do have a 10 gallon qt tank that I have never used meds in I'm about to transfer corals to that . Crappy thing is I don't know what is messing with my corals in dt to fix it , so moving everything might save the corals but I wouldn't know when to transfer back. Ugh I do know one thing though I've waited 5 days and seems to get worse each day, don't belive patience is going to work this time around..

[Nola Bear]

I wouldn’t start chasing alk. 7.7 is fine for those corals as long as you mitigate swings. 

 

I would put money on a bad batch of water. This happens more often than one would think. There are a ton of lfs  in my area and one very respectable twice sold me water that would’ve crashed my tank if i hadn’t checked the special gravity before adding it.  That being said, I now make my own rodi and salt h2o

 

good luck finding resolution. 

[Clown79]

Ya 7.7 is fine for alk but not when the tank normally is 9. That's a significant drop.

That very well could be the issue.

 

If your alk is normally 9 and after a waterchange it dropped to 7.7, that is over a 1 dkh drop.

All stability is key, it changing from 8 to 9 to 7 long term will cause problems

 

The problem with store baught water

 

- No idea the quality of water you're getting

- they may change salt brands whenever which can effect your tank

- Params swings from lfs mixing water incorrectly

- anything can get in that water and you would have no idea

[markalot]

2 hours ago, Weikel said:

So I don't mix my own saltwater at this time . I have been buying it from the same lfs every week for 6 months.. never tested it, but I have another 7 gallons I can test tonight.

 

Hope nothing got into the water. Would be hard though bc I run it with the hood on and on the one who feeds and my wife knows not to clean the tank or table it sits on.

 

I was running activated charcoal but I pulled it.no I don't carbon dose. Should I put the charcoal back In? 

 

I feed my corals the same reef roids I've had for months now. Twice a week.

 

Heater has been rock soild every time I have checked the temp it's 78.5

 

Is my alk. Too low ? Normally I run I 8's to 9 . And now I'm 7.7. The day of the water change it was like 9.5. That's a huge swing I would think?? My ph is normally 7.8 and now it's actually better bc it's 8.1.. I would have thought having low alk would have caused low ph...

 

I do have some of seachem ph buffer . It is supposed to raise ph to 8.3 and they claim no matter how much you use it's won't go over 8.3. Also it says it raises your dkh by 1.. should I try that or maybe read up on how to raise alk , I belive there is a way to do so by using baking powder or soda??

 

I have to try something because nothing is getting better.  I do have a 10 gallon qt tank that I have never used meds in I'm about to transfer corals to that . Crappy thing is I don't know what is messing with my corals in dt to fix it , so moving everything might save the corals but I wouldn't know when to transfer back. Ugh I do know one thing though I've waited 5 days and seems to get worse each day, don't belive patience is going to work this time around..

 

Never ever ever use a PH buffer, throw it out before a bad accident happens.

 

Alk dropping has never produced any symptoms for me, just rising too fast.

 

How are you testing salinity?  Did I miss it?

 

Stop testing everything but Alk for a while.  The biggest mistakes I made when starting out involved chasing numbers, you can kill a lot of corals trying to achieve perfect params. 

 

Ignore PH unless you have an accurate calibrated PH meter.  Solve PH issues by drawing in air from the outside / opening a window, or using CO2 absorbing media through the skimmer intake to help reduce co2 in the water.  No other method is safe so just ignore it.  

 

Ignore PO4 and NO3 unless you are using quality test kits that can accurately measure those values.   

 

Start buying distilled water and making your own saltwater for now, much safer than store bought.  

[FISHnChix]

18 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Ya 7.7 is fine for alk but not when the tank normally is 9. That's a significant drop.

That very well could be the issue.

 

If your alk is normally 9 and after a waterchange it dropped to 7.7, that is over a 1 dkh drop.

All stability is key, it changing from 8 to 9 to 7 long term will cause problems

 

The problem with store baught water

 

- No idea the quality of water you're getting

- they may change salt brands whenever which can effect your tank

- Params swings from lfs mixing water incorrectly

- anything can get in that water and you would have no idea

So best course of action try and dose something to raise alk or do some water changes to bring it back closer to where it was?

[FISHnChix]

7 minutes ago, markalot said:

 

Never ever ever use a PH buffer, throw it out before a bad accident happens.

 

Alk dropping has never produced any symptoms for me, just rising too fast.

 

How are you testing salinity?  Did I miss it?

 

Stop testing everything but Alk for a while.  The biggest mistakes I made when starting out involved chasing numbers, you can kill a lot of corals trying to achieve perfect params. 

 

Ignore PH unless you have an accurate calibrated PH meter.  Solve PH issues by drawing in air from the outside / opening a window, or using CO2 absorbing media through the skimmer intake to help reduce co2 in the water.  No other method is safe so just ignore it.  

 

Ignore PO4 and NO3 unless you are using quality test kits that can accurately measure those values.   

 

Start buying distilled water and making your own saltwater for now, much safer than store bought.  

Ha why is everyone afraid of ph buffer. I bought it but never used it bc I posted about it and everyone said not to. And yea I haven't been chasing ph for awhile now. I'm pretty sure my ph is lower bc of the gas exchange isn't great bc I run my biocube with the hood on.

 

Use refactometer for salinity. Use api test kit for nitrites , nitrates.  Use red sea for ammonia,  ca, mg, alk. Use salfert for ph and phos. I had bought the api master kit when I started 6 months ago and have been slowly phasing it out with better kits.

[markalot]

PH Buffer radically raises KH and can kill all corals in a single dose.

 

The only accurate PO4 kits are Hanna meter or the ELOS high res (hard to find) PO4 kit.  Nothing else gives an accurate reading.  You could double up the salifert PO4 (following their directions) and use a slight blue indication as possibly high, but it's still not accurate.  

 

PH is rarely an issue unless you are into hard to grow corals, like Acropora, in which case keeping it above 7.7 is ideal but still not required.

[FISHnChix]

Ok so I'm still not sure what is causing this problem. Only thing I've gathered from all this is possibly due to contaminants of some sort or more likely a alk swing during last water change.  So what is the best course of action now

 

1. Dose something to raise alk slowly

2. Start smaller water changes to slowly bring alk up

3. 100 percent water change and hope for the best 

4. Move corals to qt tank and see if they perk up and then due a huge water change in dt.

5. Say f*ck it sit back and drink some beers and watch my corals shrivel away...

 

6. Some other method??

 

Ideas??

[Clown79]

The first thing to do is test the water you buy from the lfs. That's the first line of action.

 

I wouldn't dose anything at this point.

 

If you are buying pre mixed saltwater, the parameters could be changing from batch to batch and without testing each time you buy pre mixed saltwater, you have no idea how stable/accurate your numbers are with each waterchange. 

 

Alk could be 8 one week, 9 another, 7 or 10. The constant changes over time may have effected your corals, it's doesn't always happen over night but can be weeks of instability.

 

So many ppl run into issues using lfs rodi and their pre made saltwater- it's not a reliable source.

They often change salts to whatever is in stock, they often don't change their rodi filters as much as one would at home, sometimes it's not even rodi but just ro water. 

 

The best thing to do is make your own water using either rodi or distilled. 

This allows you to have full control of your water.

 

I'd add carbon in the event there is a toxin.

If you do a waterchange, don't use their water, buy distilled.

[FISHnChix]

So I was going to do another water change and tested the water. Alk was low at a 7.0.. so I called the lfs to ask what the deal was said he hadn’t heard anything about it. He tested his water with a Hanna checker and said his was even lower 6.15..   and I totally forgot he told me about 3 months ago he started using tropic marin pro which is even weirder bc it’s supposed to be a better salt..:angry: well looks like I will have to find some salt water tomorrow and do a water change and bring the level back up closer to where a ran before.
 Hopefully this doesn’t kill my corals....

[markalot]

47 minutes ago, Weikel said:

So I was going to do another water change and tested the water. Alk was low at a 7.0.. so I called the lfs to ask what the deal was said he hadn’t heard anything about it. He tested his water with a Hanna checker and said his was even lower 6.15..   and I totally forgot he told me about 3 months ago he started using tropic marin pro which is even weirder bc it’s supposed to be a better salt..:angry: well looks like I will have to find some salt water tomorrow and do a water change and bring the level back up closer to where a ran before.
 Hopefully this doesn’t kill my corals....

 

Low alk short term does not kill corals, I've had my 150 down to 5.5 with some minor recession.  Make some salt water, do small changes, get Alk to about 8 over a few days.  Drink beer entire time, worrying only leads to actions which can harm the corals more. 

 

Also some carbon can't hurt, a small amount rinsed and placed somewhere where it can soak up any toxins.

[FISHnChix]

Just now, markalot said:

 

Low alk short term does not kill corals, I've had my 150 down to 5.5 with some minor recession.  Make some salt water, do small changes, get Alk to about 8 over a few days.  Drink beer entire time, worrying only leads to actions which can harm the corals more. 

Can do!!!! 

[gone_PHiSHin]

reading through this whole thread, i'm pretty sure you never mentioned salinity

 

you use a refractometer, but did you check the LFS water's salinity before doing a check?  a large salinity swing could certainly cause the trouble you are having (it would also cause an alkalinity swing too)

 

do you calibrate your refractometer with 35ppt solution?  what do you keep your tank at?  what was the LFS salinity? 

 

this is the FIRST thing i would check.  like already said, never trust LFS water or saltwater, ALWAYS check them before a water change.  the fact the LFS didn't know of/has 6.1 alk saltwater that he's selling is a huge red flag.

 

check your tank's and the LFS water's salinity! and enjoy that beer 

[FISHnChix]

45 minutes ago, gone_PHiSHin said:

reading through this whole thread, i'm pretty sure you never mentioned salinity

 

you use a refractometer, but did you check the LFS water's salinity before doing a check?  a large salinity swing could certainly cause the trouble you are having (it would also cause an alkalinity swing too)

 

do you calibrate your refractometer with 35ppt solution?  what do you keep your tank at?  what was the LFS salinity? 

 

this is the FIRST thing i would check.  like already said, never trust LFS water or saltwater, ALWAYS check them before a water change.  the fact the LFS didn't know of/has 6.1 alk saltwater that he's selling is a huge red flag.

 

check your tank's and the LFS water's salinity! and enjoy that beer 

Yes I do check the salinity  always. 025 to.o26  from lfs. my tank stays around.026.. pretty crappy bc I know my lfs had good quality stuff.  Blows my mind the owner didnt Check the basic stuff. 

[gone_PHiSHin]

so what was the new LFS saltwater salinity?

[FISHnChix]

8 hours ago, gone_PHiSHin said:

so what was the new LFS saltwater salinity?

1.026

[gone_PHiSHin]

interesting.  bad batch of salt then?  who knows.

 

good that you alerted the LFS though, i'm sure yours isn't the only tank that this caused problems in