Low PH- 7.6

[MuffinMonster]

Hey guys, wondering what my issue is with low PH? Im currently at 7.6PH and it has been for a couple weeks now?

 

Ammonia- 0

Nitrates- 0

Phosphate- 0

 

I was thinking this was maybe a calibration issue with my PH probe (apex). but i just calibrated it, and my PH is still sitting at 7.6

How can i raise this? Why is it this low? Tank has been runnning alittle over 2 months, i have 2 clowns, a fire shrimp, 1 torch coral, 1 green trumpet, and 1 zoa.

Still new to the hobby as this is my first tank and dont really know why my PH is low

[WV Reefer]

5 minutes ago, Dakoda said:

Hey guys, wondering what my issue is with low PH? Im currently at 7.6PH and it has been for a couple weeks now?

 

Ammonia- 0

Nitrates- 0

Phosphate- 0

 

I was thinking this was maybe a calibration issue with my PH probe (apex). but i just calibrated it, and my PH is still sitting at 7.6

How can i raise this? Why is it this low? Tank has been runnning alittle over 2 months, i have 2 clowns, a fire shrimp, 1 torch coral, 1 green trumpet, and 1 zoa.

Still new to the hobby as this is my first tank and dont really know why my PH is low

If it is consistent, let it be.  Don’t chase ph, it will only give you headaches.  

[ReefSafeSolutions]

My experience with pH is as noted above...chasing it will give you headaches.  What you want to "chase" is your alkalinity and calcium (magnesium as well, but it gets consumed much slower, in my experience).  Low pH might indicate lower alkalinity.  I'd test your alk and see where you're at.  Compare it to the alkalinity of new saltwater and see if there's a significant difference.

[AshCom]

Test your water next time you do a WC and see if thats playing with your parameters. What salt do you use? I've always seen issues with parameters early on are usually traced back to 3 things; the salt, the water, or the person mixing the two!  Like stated above, check your dKH pronto.

[MuffinMonster]

Thanks guys I will check it ASAP, I just started adding corals so I haven’t got a alkalinity tester yet. I just now ordered one, along with calcium and magnesium- they will be here Tuesday and I will update you guys with the results. 

 

I use the orange box of “Reef Crystals” by instant ocean. I always mix my salinity to 1.025. And I perform a 20% water change every Sunday. 

[AshCom]

27 minutes ago, Dakoda said:

I just started adding corals so I haven’t got a alkalinity tester yet.... I use the orange box of “Reef Crystals” by instant ocean. I always mix my salinity to 1.025.

You're adding corals before knowing your base parameters or if you're truly cycled? Oh boy......  For future reference, get a good test kit before you do anything.  It'll save you time and money, not to mention your hair when you're pulling it out with all the issues. It's like driving a car without a dashboard! Yeah you poured in some gas into the tank but you have no idea whats going on other than you're moving!

 

All of us have a Reef Crystals story. Some swear by it, others curse it. In my opinion, which should be taken with a grain of salt, pun intended, Reef Crystals are the big box stores salt, made in huge orders and not always checked by QA. I've never had stable parameters with RC or any Instant Ocean product and quickly switched to Fritz RPM Reef Pro and haven't changed since. All of us really do our own thing when it comes to salt and no matter what anyone tells you, there is not a best salt. Salinity at 1.025 is a good clue that your salt is properly mixed but it's never advised to introduce fresh mixed saltwater. Most manufacturers state that the fresh mixed water should sit with a wave maker and heater for 12 hours to properly mix and adjust temp, unless its an absolute emergency. Your fish will probably survive just pouring it in, but corals are not a guarantee.

 

I'd stop everything until you've tested everything....... Twice.

[FISHnChix]

What tank do you have.. low ph can be caused from poor gas exchange.. if you have a skimmer odds are they is enough gas exchange there. If not you should have a return nozzel or powerhead aimed at the water surface agitating/ breaking the waters surface..  when are you testing  ph? It will be lower in the morning before the lights are on..

[MuffinMonster]

36 minutes ago, AshCom said:

You're adding corals before knowing your base parameters or if you're truly cycled? Oh boy......  For future reference, get a good test kit before you do anything.  It'll save you e. I'd stop everything until you've tested everything....... Twice.

I cycled my tank for about 40 days before adding fish, then the fish were in there about 4 weeks before adding coral. and the coral have been in now for about 3 weeks. Iv been told that doing weekly water changes will replenish the calcium and alk, so i never got testers for those to check- i was just assuming they would be good enough with doing water changes:/ i test nitrates, ammonia and phosphate regularly and never have any issues with those parameters, all of them are always undetectable. I hear so many different things from different people so i never know what to do haha.

 

34 minutes ago, Weikel said:

What tank do you have.. low ph can be caused from poor gas exchange.. if you have a skimmer odds are they is enough gas exchange there. If not you should have a return nozzel or powerhead aimed at the water surface agitating/ breaking the waters surface..  when are you testing  ph? It will be lower in the morning before the lights are on..

 

I have a Nuvo 30L AIO, so theres plenty of water surface since its so long and shallow. I do not have a protein skimmer (Will be adding one in the next 2-3 weeks hopefully)- i aim the return nozzles at the surface though and it looks like it breaks the water quite a bit. I have an Apex neptune system that measures PH constantly, its always between 7.6-7.7 night or day.

[AshCom]

5 minutes ago, Dakoda said:

i test nitrates, ammonia and phosphate regularly and never have any issues with those parameters

Nitrates and phosphates are related, so if one changes the other will, too. Most dont test for ammonia after the initial cycle because it's no use unless you dump the whole container of fish food in!  Ammonia is the product of insignificant aerobic bacteria population/plants to process your normal bioload. It's more or less rotting food/waste. Nitrates are processed by anaerobic bacteria to nitrogen gas, but can't do it by itself, thus why we do WCs (I've made posts in depth on how this process works). You're more or less "testing" something twice so that's not testing in my book.

 

Sorry if that sounds sharp but it seems like the past few months you've settled for a "good enough", but that was far from the truth. The lack of a skimmer, small biweekly WC (10% weekly is ok, 10% biweekly is practically what evaporates), and playing the dangerous "assumption" game is a red flag. A 7 pH and unknown dKH since the beginning isn't awful but I highly suggest investing in something like a Red Sea Marine Test Kit for about $50. It includes about 60 days of pH, dKH, Nitrate, Nitrite, and Ammonia tests. All should be tested weekly at the minimum. I also suggest get a skimmer ASAP and remember that it'll take 2-5 weeks to break in. I suggest a Reef Octopus 100-HOB or an Aquamaxx 1.5 HOB. Both sit at about $150-$200 but a skimmer, to be honest, should of been installed during the initial cycle. A skimmer and test kits are two of the number one things to get a hold of when you start this hobby, not 3 months in.

 

I suggest getting something like Microbacter7 by brightwell aquatics and dosing daily to increase your bacteria population, regardless of what parameters are zero.

[pal]

17 hours ago, WV Reefer said:

If it is consistent, let it be.  Don’t chase ph, it will only give you headaches.  

This is good advice. There are safe ways to raise it though. A skimmer will help with gas exchange especially if you can run the airline to fresh air or through a co2 scrubber.  Reverse lighting on a fuge or algae reactor can also help.

[TylerR]

I know it's winter here in the northern hemi, but you can try opening a window if you live in a location where it's a option. I've seen ph swings of 0.4. However, I'd have to agree with the others in that calk and dkh are much more important. You should focus on nailing those parameters and keeping them stable.

[blasterman]

What happens in young tanks is the usual algae / diatom cycles along with building up bacterla colonies depletes alkalinity far, FAR faster than when the tank is established. This is because alkalinity is the main source of carbon building blocks during this period for these organisms. I've had smaller tanks deplete dKH by as much as a full point in 24 hours during their break in or cycling. After 5 months and no SPS but a lot of softies and the tank consume alk at less than 10% the rate when it was establishing.

 

Very low Alk along with a high CO2 levels tested at night could produce a 7.6 pH level, but that's still pretty low for a normal tank. 7.6 would almost require a high volume calcium reactor pumping abnormally high C02 levels in the tank.

 

Advising a skimmer to increase pH levels or water changes is just as dumb as chasing pH. I can show you plenty of skimmerless tanks running in tightly closed basements that have massive colonies of acropora. Skimmers are used to pull disolved organics out of the water column...their gas exchange ability is limited.  If your tank is dropping to 7.6 and it's indeed a legit measurement you have something going on more severe than an inefficient HOB skimmer is going to fix. 

 

IMO, alk should be measured weekly in young tanks because it's extremely variable at this stage. I haven't tested ammonia in years because corals don't breath oxygen and actually regard ammonia as fertilizer. 

[pal]

 

41 minutes ago, blasterman said:

Advising a skimmer to increase pH levels or water changes is just as dumb as chasing pH.

Huh? Both skimmer and water changes are good 

[pal]

48 minutes ago, blasterman said:

. I can show you plenty of skimmerless tanks running in tightly closed basements that have massive colonies of acropora.

Let's see

[MuffinMonster]

7 hours ago, blasterman said:

Very low Alk along with a high CO2 levels tested at night could produce a 7.6 pH level, but that's still pretty low for a normal tank. 7.6 would almost require a high volume calcium reactor pumping abnormally high C02 levels in the tank.

Advising a skimmer to increase pH levels or water changes is just as dumb as chasing pH.

IMO, alk should be measured weekly in young tanks because it's extremely variable at this stage. I haven't tested ammonia in years because corals don't breath oxygen and actually regard ammonia as fertilizer. 

Thank you for the information- I guess until now I have not realized the importance of ALK (only a couple months into the hobby), From what iv studied and read about I was thinking it was only an important measurement for when I have lots of corals/ mainly SPS. I ordered an ALK kit that's due in tomorrow and I will check the levels ASAP. Also I agree with the skimmer thing- I know a few people who do not run them, I myself was not going to run one on this tank either, but I have been reading into starting triton method and they recommend a skimmer for that. So I was wanting to pick one up soon.

 

If indeed my ALK is low, what is the fix for that? more frequent water changes to bring it back up? Or can I just dose ALK? or would I have to dose ALK and calcium?

[ajm83]

 

7 hours ago, pal said:

 

Huh? Both skimmer and water changes are good 

He's right, in my house running the skimmer actually lowers the pH because the house has high CO2 levels. 

Common issue here in the UK as we tend to have tightly sealed houses.

 

I can't find the pic right now, but somewhere I have the graph from my seneye, and you can pinpoint the day I added my 9004, as the pH dips a heckuva lot lower.

[pal]

1 hour ago, ajm83 said:

He's right, in my house running the skimmer actually lowers the pH because the house has high CO2 levels. 

Which is why I said this

 

17 hours ago, pal said:

A skimmer will help with gas exchange especially if you can run the airline to fresh air or through a co2 scrubber

 

[ajm83]

Okay, so why are you suggesting to add a skimmer then?

 

You think it will drive off co2? 

[FISHnChix]

1 hour ago, ajm83 said:

 

He's right, in my house running the skimmer actually lowers the pH because the house has high CO2 levels. 

Common issue here in the UK as we tend to have tightly sealed houses.

 

I can't find the pic right now, but somewhere I have the graph from my seneye, and you can pinpoint the day I added my 9004, as the pH dips a heckuva lot lower.

So if your house is sealed up tight with elevated co2 and the skimmer causes your ph to lower.. what do you think the ph will do if you have a well ventilated home and run a skimmer?? Lol

 

Also he was saying water changes don't help?? Hmmmm so if we change 25 percent of water that won't effect the alk, ca, mag, and ph??? Hmmm ..

 

Bacteria blooms use up alk?? So chang ing water and cleaning detritus and removing organics decreases the things bacteria thrive on, but won't help ph either .. hmmm 

[ajm83]

1 minute ago, Weikel said:

So if your house is sealed up tight with elevated co2 and the skimmer causes your ph to lower.. what do you think the ph will do if you have a well ventilated home and run a skimmer?? Lol

 

Also he was saying water changes don't help?? Hmmmm so if we change 25 percent of water that won't effect the alk, ca, mag, and ph??? Hmmm ..

 

Bacteria blooms use up alk?? So chang ing water and cleaning detritus and removing organics decreases the things bacteria thrive on, but won't help ph either .. hmmm 

Explain your logic on the skimmer thing there.  

 

Also I did not mention water changes.

[pal]

2 minutes ago, ajm83 said:

Okay, so why are you suggesting to add a skimmer then?

I suggested a skimmer with fresh air or co2 scrubber. Someone else logical also recommended opening a window. 

 

1 hour ago, Dakoda said:

From what iv studied and read about I was thinking it was only an important measurement for when I have lots of corals/ mainly SPS

This is correct.  Water changes should keep up alk until they don't then you need to look into dosing 2 part. As far as the Triton method goes it is not really suited for an all in one tank, needs a large refugium etc.

[ajm83]

4 minutes ago, pal said:

I suggested a skimmer with fresh air or co2 scrubber. Someone else logical also recommended opening a window. 

Yes but why? You think that will drive off co2 from the tank?

 

[pal]

5 minutes ago, ajm83 said:

Yes but why

 

[FISHnChix]

6 minutes ago, ajm83 said:

Yes but why? You think that will drive off co2 from the tank?

 

Yes if he actually has low ph.. see this is a new tank so unless he has a huge bacteria problem messing with the alk the ph shouldn't be this low.  We will see when he checks his alk.. but honestly it sounds like he is using a ph probe . Even if it's caled who knows how accurate the probe is supposed to be???? Dont get me wrong maybe the probe is great or maybe it's not.. I would verify with a test kit...

[tonydahomie]

I've been following along because I have had chronically low ph as well, in my original tank and now in my new tank which i just transferred the live rock and livestock from my old tank to. Ph is actually lower in my new tank, perhaps because it doesn't have a skimmer (yet), perhaps because the new apartment that i moved into has more of a CO2 problem than the old house and old tank had, or maybe there's another issue.

Either way, all of my livestock seem to be thriving in the new tank with an average ph of 7.84, that dips down to 7.75 at night.

My ALK is about 10-11 pretty consistently and CAL is 420-430, Magnesium is about 1300-1320

 

Please correct me if I am wrong, but my point to the OP is that while I am not happy with the low ph levels, everything else seems to be ok and it may not be a reason to panic.

 

Also worth mentioning my ph level is measured with a Seneye which is supposedly pretty accurate, and interestingly my Seneye's O2 level (dissolved oxygen level), has stayed pretty constant around 8.0 - 8.1 on both tanks. Maybe someone with more knowledge can tell us what this implies...

Salifert and Hanna Checker are used for ALK, and Salifert for the rest.

 

 

PS - OP, I did notice that after i switched from Reef Crystals to Red Sea Coral Pro on my old tank that ph did rise. With that said, I am still using RSCP on my new tank and it is lower than it has ever been on average.