Liveplant Forums

[SaltyBuddha]

I converted my 20 gallon to a liveplant tank a while ago and it is not doing well.

 

Anyone use any liveplant forums? Ive tried one and all I get are crickets for responses.

[brandon429]

plantedtank.net is fine but I bet we could fix up that bad boy

 

show me a dirt capped Walstad system that isn't growing mad plants

 

or I might show you a system where the substrate and CO2 balance is the issue, rarely the ferts or levels of params

 

pics man!!

[SaltyBuddha]

It is totally a CO2 issue but mostly me just buying plants, a light and some substrate (half gravel half seachem flourite) and throwing them in the tank. I figured, "hey, I have a SW tank doing pretty well, how hard can live plants be?" And the tank is just not thriving. Weird thing is that they did super well for a month. Growth & bright leaves. But after that they went down hill and I cannot get it back.

 

Looking for some advice on tearing down and putting in all new substrate, beginner/hardy plants and peroxiding my rocks/driftwood. I have a good idea on where I went wrong, now I just need a good re-start I think. Either that or I turn the thing into a reef tank lol 

[brandon429]

I have used fluorite since 1996 continually I know it like the back of my hand, it needs enrichment and there's an easy trick

 

try to zip a pic real quick lemme see which parts are in challenge. I have a 14 yr old planted tank right now that uses fluorite, is enriched, and will outlive multiple generations of humans without any messing with the sandbed.

 

its fluorite + stuff, not fluorite alone or with hard coated grains. specific enrichment makes fluorite into rock n roll. my fluorite bed is about 13 inches deep and supports about 12 feet of plant growth right out the top of the bowl pressing into my ceiling. I use no co2 gas, but co2 is def in there like mad or the plants wouldn't be that big. the enrichment is the co2 source, special combo of organics at the bottom of the substrate. for me, that special something is fish crap heh but others used organic potting mix at the bottom layers and did just fine without actual co2 injections, it was coming from the bottom up via bacterial decay and some time.

 

Flourite itself is too inert to work without an organic component, and, spiking ferts to the water in makeup for that is  recipe for yellowed leaves blue green invasions and black beard algae. all that stuff reverses when the bed is the fertilizer but is isolated from the water column.

[Clown79]

There can be a few issues:

 

What water are you using in the tank? If it's rodi, you need to dose minerals that the plants need which are removed from the filtration of the water.

 

Lighting: what are you using?

 

Substrate: you can use plain sand but need to use fert tabs. I don't think the problem is substrate because many use what you did.

 

Co2:nutrients:lights - all play a part in planted tanks and the ratio of all 3 are important depending on the plants you keep

 

What plants did you get. Some are low light, some high. Some need to be planted in the sand while others die that way

[SaltyBuddha]

Substrate - half seachem flourite with half aquarium gravel

 

Initially I was using de chlorinated tap. I've switched to using ro/di and I mix it to Kh/Gh of 6 and a PH of 6.5. With the tap, I had no idea what the levels were at and have only done water changes with the new solution. I top off with RO/DI.

 

Light is a Fugeray Planted+. I am only running it at 6 to 7 hours a day because of my black brush algae problem (now a slight green film on glass)

 

Added a new HOB and a powerhead for better flow. HOB is just running the bioballs and the cartridge it came with.

 

Initially I thought the plants were lacking nutrients when older leaves started to slowly melt and black brush algae started. Began adding the following per bottle instructions:

 

Flourish

Flourish Advanced

 

My first plants depleted all the nitrates so I started feeding heavier and included CO2 to the mix.

 

Flourish Excel

Kent Iron/MG

 

I just started doing excel treatments (turn powerheads/filter off, add 10 ml of excel to areas of black brush algae). This has helped with that but now I have some green film algae starting and still have black brush algae.

 

My anubias plants have been in the tank for a while and have new growth. A few of the older leaves have some holes.

 

The small crypt has been in there a long time too but little growth.

 

New water fern growth is non existent.

 

Tallest plant in the middle left is growing new shoots every couple days.

 

I've also read that I should have 60 to 70% of the tank ground covered in plants and that people suggest to put in more plants to out compete the algae.

 

Livestock:

13 neons

1 bristlenose llevo

2 otos

3 amanos shrimp

Some nerites

 

 

**apologies for turning this into a FW thread   **

[brandon429]

Nobody minds here. All boxed science welcome, odd container science too as applicable

 

There's a few different ways to turn that around, I know you want carpeting growth. I'd handle that in two ways if it was given to me

 

1 redo it as a walstad, put your current substrate back

 

2 go get a paintball co2 setup, and solenoid control off Amazon, and a timer, and do this right. That liquid you're dosing doesn't count or things would be working.

 

 

The next step/option

 

Take the next few years running the gambit of retail liquid ferts, which the predicted GBA loves, or learn EI dosing from the web off searches and use real co2 gas. The cheapest you can get for the right gas setup is about 180 all up done right last you forever.

 

 

The walstad is about as good amazingly, which is why nobody with carpeting growth is running just flourite alone and enjoying things without gas

 

I'm not saying that liquid co2 didn't work, I'm saying as a pattern you want options one or two which grow everything. As I turn to my right I see this three gallon nano globe below.

 

 

One day my great great grandchildren will post that and it will be the same. Flourite is a specific component of its sandbed, because it has the rare character of never breaking down into mud, ever. It holds spaces open that shrimp poop continually refresh, forever in cycle. Power outages have no effect on it no matter how extended within reason... Everyday is a power outage. Open the widow shades if light goes out.

 

Get some sunlight on your setup if you can angle it in such a way

 

This is walstad to the nth degree, the sandbed is about a foot deep and is self regenerating regarding nutrients. It's my most stable system, unheated uncirculated grows all plants submerged and emersed. I do nothing it uses no gas it's hands off. Occasional feed and topoff, about 200 cherry shrimp and juveniles

 

Flourite is a part of the bed not the full Monty, secret. Your bed has no organics, the bottom of mine would smell like a whale's armpit but it's isolated by design.

 

To stop gha, use correct gas or walstad and the new leaves won't have it in time.

[SaltyBuddha]

Ahh thanks for the tips. I really really wanted to avoid the gas CO2. Just one more thing to research I guess. At that point, I'm going to really think about turning it into a SW tank. Love how beautiful the live plant tanks can be but I'm finding I want more room for corals anyways. Might find a good black Friday deal on a CO2 system though. Any recommendations? I have no idea when it comes to that. I need a controller, regulator and tank?

[SaltyBuddha]

Ahh thanks for the tips. I really really wanted to avoid the gas CO2. Just one more thing to research I guess. At that point, I'm going to really think about turning it into a SW tank. Love how beautiful the live plant tanks can be but I'm finding I want more room for corals anyways. Might find a good black Friday deal on a CO2 system though. Any recommendations? I have no idea when it comes to that. I need a controller, regulator and tank?

 

Actually, it does not look too complicated. Guess I just needed someone to tell me what I already knew. Appreciate the swift kick in the right direction.

[squamptonbc]

I use a paintball set up for my co2. I had an old regulator someone gave me from a fluval kit and with an adapter it fits the paint ball tank, although there is no solenoid so I have to turn on/off manually which works for me. 

 

 

 

 

[Thunder Goose]

You can get 5# CO2 bottles at your local beer making supply shop pretty cheap and they last quite a while. 

[Clown79]

I found excel did nothing for my black beard algae issues. Black outs don't work in bba.

It's about nutrients vs c02, vs lighting.

 

 

 

I gave up on planted tanks and converted my tank to a reef. 

 

My betta is now in a simple tank with my anubias. Funny thing, the plants are doing better in there with extremely low light and no ferts, no excel, regular sand. I have 0 algae now too. 

[SaltyBuddha]

I found some stuff on sale for a black Friday sale. Got a regulator with a solenoid, bubble counter, line, diffuser and a drop checker. I'm hoping that the CO2 along with a light regime of replacing trace elements and more water changed will solve the issues.

 

Going to go for only low or low/medium light plants as well. Planting at least 60% of the substrate to start.

 

Replacing the entire substrate, peroxide on the rocks and replacing all the plants to remove the BBA.

 

Thanks for the tips. It will be cool if I do this right and I actually have to scape the plants

[Clown79]

You can soak plants in a water and a bit of hydrogen peroxide to remove the bba.

[benstatic]

I agree with plantedtank.net

 

You don't need CO2 to be successful with FW plants - it just helps if you want to do a lot of stem plants - or have a high light system.

Your system doesn't look too bad, your plants aren't covered in algae which is good.  

Your light looks pretty bright for a bunch of crypts and anubias.

What is your photoperiod?

 

I agree - its all about light / CO2 and nutrient availability, but additional water flow is huge, it really helps keep algae low, and turn over gasses in / out of your system.

CO2 is a bit of a hassle - I found that you probably want a reactor if you going to use a CO2 canister - and then try not to gas your fish...  

 

I'd say scrape that algae off the front, plant a bunch of jungle val in the back and let it ride - I think you should be fine with no CO2...  You might get a koralia for flow though, and raise the water level - you don't want to look at those bubbles pouring in to the tank like that.

 

[SaltyBuddha]

4 hours ago, benstatic said:

I agree with plantedtank.net

 

You don't need CO2 to be successful with FW plants - it just helps if you want to do a lot of stem plants - or have a high light system.

Your system doesn't look too bad, your plants aren't covered in algae which is good.  

Your light looks pretty bright for a bunch of crypts and anubias.

What is your photoperiod?

 

I agree - its all about light / CO2 and nutrient availability, but additional water flow is huge, it really helps keep algae low, and turn over gasses in / out of your system.

CO2 is a bit of a hassle - I found that you probably want a reactor if you going to use a CO2 canister - and then try not to gas your fish...  

 

I'd say scrape that algae off the front, plant a bunch of jungle val in the back and let it ride - I think you should be fine with no CO2...  You might get a koralia for flow though, and raise the water level - you don't want to look at those bubbles pouring in to the tank like that.

 

Thanks, Ben. I found a good deal on a CO2 regulator and pulled the trigger. The excel wasn't keeping it consistent enough and I'm not seeing great growth. The plants do have algae on them as well. Hard to tell from the picture.

 

My light is supposed to be a low-medium light. I also have a powerhead in there. Ive got another one I am replacing in my SW tank that ill add to this tank and place them more strategically. Going to redo the scape, replace the substrate and add the CO2 system. 

 

I top off with RO/DI and the line is normally at the top but I had not topped off in a while.

 

I should have everything done this weekend. If I remember, I will post a picture of how it turns out. 

[benstatic]

Here is mine - I've had it running with CO2 for about 1.5 months now.  Still fighting BBA and some hair algae.  That poor anubia on that rock is pretty hammered - but a few new leaves grew out so I have left it so far.

 

CO2 makes it fun - things grow fast. 

But yeah, you might look into CO2 diffusion mechanisms - that can be hard to get right.

 

[SaltyBuddha]

Nice! No fish though? 

 

I have a good bubble counter and drop checker. The diffuser I'm getting comes with the CO2 bundle. Some mixed reviews on it. Ill see how it does though.

 

I will be doing bleach and peroxide dips this weekend to kill off as much algae as I can with the new set up.