25yr old 75G Jaubert Plenum

[Subsea]

On 10/9/2018 at 8:41 PM, ramona said:

Oops, I knew I will do something wrong. I thought will be an easy one. I will try to exchange at LFS if possible. Thank you. 

I plan on starting a tank thread, just have to find the time and figure out how to insert pictures. To be honest, all the awesome tanks on this forum are very intimidating.

 

 

@ramona

We all were newbies.  You will find the reef community to be very passoniate about what we do.  In my case, I enjoy sharing about the beauty of this hobby.  Your thread will be welcomed with open arms.  Forum members are generous with their time if you care to learn.

[Subsea]

On 8/8/2018 at 7:03 AM, Patrick17 said:

I'm definitely looking at removing nutrients from the system; whether they are bound up in trimmed macroalgae or in skimmate doesn't matter too much. I would like to achieve this in the most efficient manner possible. I don't think I have the space in my sump to be able to do a refugium with a large enough volume to make much difference with the skimmer in place and I'm not convinced my skimmer is doing particularly much. 

 

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video/view/brstv-investigates-do-refugiums-work/

 

 

I just watched some BRS video on Chaeto refugium as primary nutrient export.  I have not seen the complete series, but there was some surprising results that demonstrated effectiveness of Chaeto refugium as primary filtration for a mature SPS reef tank.

 

Test involved four different lights from $5 compact florescent to 1700 PAR intense light.  

 

This is what I took away from video so far.  To outcompete algae in reef tank requires holding time in refugium to effect the nutrients in the water.  Volume increases holding time.  To offset small volume, increase light intensity.  Testing macro refugium effectiveness is the last phase of testing in which a 2 year old fully stocked 120G SPS tank is coupled to 25G Chaeto refugium with 1700 PAR on 12 hour photoperiod.

[Subsea]

So I made some changes.  First, I found out that live black mussels will elicit an immediate feeding response in deepwater gorgonians even during daylight.  I have had nice success with a Red Tree for about 6 weeks.  However, I had three more with Chil in cryptic refugium.  I moved one Yellow Tree into display on top and a yellow tree & a red tree into 120G year old display with reverse flow undergravel filter.  All trees are flying flags with lights out about 30 minutes ago.  All four deepwater gorgonions are flying flags.  I’ll try some pictures tomorrow.

[Lula_Mae]

On 10/9/2018 at 7:33 PM, ramona said:

2 days ago I placed the very first coral: a green mushroom on a tiny rock, today I got 3 Ricordea from KPAquatics, one RFA, one purple sea whip and a feather duster. I had my hands in this tank today hundreds time😂, I just cannot resist. I have no clue at I do. It's my very first aquarium, 9 gallon Eheim with 10 gal sump I siliconed the baffles, Mame overflow (didn't expect so much pain to work with it) running/cycling for almost 3 month; I tried to practice all this time in keeping parameters stable as much as I can. SG at 1025 with pet bottle ATO NanoSapiens so far.

Thank you for asking. You are very kind.👋

 

 

 

On 10/9/2018 at 8:33 PM, Subsea said:

@ramona

you should start a tank thread on this forum.  Information specific to your tank would be in one place so that people could make informed comments that are pertinent to your system.  

 

With a three month young tank, I would not have gotten a deep water gorgonion that is non photosynthetic and requires a specialized diet.  I just did attempt NPS with moderate success.  This coral requires much more than casual attention.  You should reconsider if you can adequately provide for the food requirements in an immature tank of 3 months.

If the "purple sea whip" is the purple angular whip offered by KPA, I'm fairly certain it's photosynthetic. Like other gorgs, it likes flow and appreciates extra feeding but doesn't require it like the NPS species do.

[Zuma]

Very cool to see a Jaubert system running, great looking tank and further proof that there are many ways to create a successful reef.

 

[Subsea]

1 hour ago, Zuma said:

Very cool to see a Jaubert system running, great looking tank and further proof that there are many ways to create a successful reef.

 

Thank you.  While Jaubert Plenum served me well for 24 years with maintaining  Sea Apples and flame scallops, I would not use one again.  I prefer 2” of aerobic substrate  using reverse flow undergravel  filter.  I mimic success.  Thank @Paul B for that.

[K-Werks]

Subsea, thanks so much for sharing.  Appreciate your insights and wisdom more than you can imagine. This tank is stunning. Sorry if you’ve already answered and I’ve missed it, but what is that gorgeous green carpet on the back of the aquarium?  I checked the links you posted earlier in this thread on macros, thinking it might be one of those, but I couldn’t readily identify it.

 

Edit:   Ah, Clavularia viridis, I believe, but correct me if I’m wrong.

[Subsea]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:43 PM, K-Werks said:

Subsea, thanks so much for sharing.  Appreciate your insights and wisdom more than you can imagine. This tank is stunning. Sorry if you’ve already answered and I’ve missed it, but what is that gorgeous green carpet on the back of the aquarium?  I checked the links you posted earlier in this thread on macros, thinking it might be one of those, but I couldn’t readily identify it.

 

Edit:   Ah, Clavularia viridis, I believe, but correct me if I’m wrong.

Thank you for the kind words.  You are very technically correct.  For the commonwealth, I say GSP.

 

It is too long since last post, there are major changes in place, especially in the last two weeks.  After haphazardly ignoring/fighting Cynobacteria for two years, I removed all live rock and substrate.  With a 40G Rubbermade tub and four 5G buckets all fish are caught to remove all Blue Devils and a large Melannarious Wrasse which desimated detrivore janitors causing dsb to crash and regurgitate 24 years of detritus.  I minimally disturbed the muck under Jaubert Plenum and installed a manifold to pump bulk water into the void under the Plenum to establish a reverse flow under gravel filter.  With that  done two weeks ago then one week later followed by two ChemiClean treatments back to back.   I am so “tickled pink” with the results that I am proud to share pictures.

[Subsea]

Lights on for two hours.

[WV Reefer]

On 1/28/2019 at 11:45 PM, Subsea said:

Thank you for the kind words.  You are very technically correct.  For the commonwealth, I say GSP.

 

It is too long since last post, there are major changes in place, especially in the last two weeks.  After haphazardly ignoring/fighting Cynobacteria for two years, I removed all live rock and substrate.  With a 40G Rubbermade tub and four 5G buckets all fish are caught to remove all Blue Devils and a large Melannarious Wrasse which desimated detrivore janitors causing dsb to crash and regurgitate 24 years of detritus.  I minimally disturbed the muck under Jaubert Plenum and installed a manifold to pump bulk water into the void under the Plenum to establish a reverse flow under gravel filter.  With that  done two weeks ago then one week later followed by two ChemiClean treatments back to back.   I am so “tickled pink” with the results that I am proud to share pictures.

 

6 minutes ago, Subsea said:

Lights on for two hours.

 

Looks very nice!

 

Seems like I haven’t seen you around here lately...... good to see you back. 😊

[Subsea]

On 12/5/2017 at 3:32 PM, Moolelo said:

Filter feeders and sea cucumbers are some of my favorites, they look great! Just keeping it all going with the microfauna population?

@Moolelo

 

Thank you for that question.  I know so much more now than then about biofiltration and sustainable reef keeping methods.  Yes to micro fauna and fana.  I spent 6 months developing the substrate micro inhabitants before adding the first carnivore fish.   Include plankton & bio-plankton in with food webs.  Bacteria are the microbial overlords in our ecosystem we call a reef tank.  

 

On the natural reef, the reason inorganic nutrients read scarce in bulk water is because bacteria consume it, then move it up the food chain as a sustainable food source.  I have been skimmerless for 35 years, because I choose to allow the coral holobiont to “conduct the orchestra”.

Patrick

 

 

As I reviewed history of this tank, I realized this tank is 1/4 century old.  Longer than the time span between

World War 1 & World War 2

 

I guess that makes me an “old dude”.  For me, the beauty of the reef is an expression of Creation.  Each of us, is a master sculpture.  I choose the route of “Master Gardener”.  Nuisance weeds and good weeds (veggies & fruits) all need the same thing:  food & space.  For food, some need light and some need flow to bring food to it.  The uglies have had numerous billions of years to develope strategies to survive.  

 

Let’s do a case study on Cynobacteria.  

I just did a 20G lagoon tank breakdown on a newly set up tank at a church multi use facility.  Because of other time demands, the  tank floundered two months after set up.  Cynobacteria covered tissue of green sinularia and green star polyps and literally dissolved organic biomass.  Because tank was 20 miles away, I did not see the issue until too late.  Visitors at morning Bible Study were admiring the dark red mat contrasting the vivid green of the sinularia.  After everyone was gone, I pulled out tooth brush to do “damage control”.  When I brushed off the burgundy slime, I saw craters missing inside main stem of this leather coral.  The stench was smelled by a friend from 20’ away.  

 

Some years ago, Randy Holmes Farley article on survival techniques of Cynobacteria with respect to phosphate scavenging of  inorganic phosphate that was deposited as calcium phosphate, caught my attention.    This calcium phosphate is normally associated with limewater addition used in reefkeeping “alkalinity management”.  In geologic time of early earth history, athmosphere was a combination of methane & sulfur gases.   Cynobacteria used survival techniques to adapt to changing environments and converted those hostile environments to oxygen rich.

 

 

 

Because my groundwater comes in at

950 TDS, all of the evaporation makeup is limewater from 1000’ down in a subterranean basin called the Edwards Aquafuer.  Well is in a fault zone between both Edwards & Trinity Aquifier which covers 2/3 of  ”Texas Hill Country”.  Because Texas was a shallow marine sea, silicates are a part of my water input to all of thousands of gallons I maintain.

 

Fourteen months ago, I incorporated sponge filtration as the third leg of biofiltration in my nutrient management methods:

bacteria, algae and sponges.  I replaced macro with cryptic sponge.  Because sponges consume DOC and produce DIC & Marine Snow, both of which are food for coral.   It’s a nutrient food web, that feeds itself.  I have not used granulated active carbon in 16 months on this 100G system.

 

Food webs are a complex soup.  I have read a 6 Part series on Advanced Aquaria by Dana Riddle on “Coral Nutrion”.  My favorite sentence in the series is “Photosynthesis is the connection between the inorganic and organic world”.

 

 BRS TV Video release on Friday two weeks ago was on “coral nutrition”.  Serious inquires only.  This stuff is complicated and for me, reinforces natural biofiltration in my Laissez Faire  reef keeping.

[Subsea]

Lights on 10 hours.  Just stirred up a sandstorm in substrate as normal daily maintenance to feed filter feeders biodiversity of larvae fron sandbed detrivores.   The reason this tank is in flux is because of major changes in biofiltration in the last 30 days.

 

 

[Christopher Marks]

How has the reef been doing these past two years @Subsea? I was thinking about you with those extreme winter storms, hopefully they weren't too troublesome for you and the tanks.

[Subsea]

17 hours ago, Christopher Marks said:

How has the reef been doing these past two years @Subsea? I was thinking about you with those extreme winter storms, hopefully they weren't too troublesome for you and the tanks.

I fared well during the Big Chill.  
 

Due to different circumstances, until recently, both display tanks suffered to lack of attention, no TLC.  The worst hit was 120G at 3 years young.  I just did  complete a 7 day treatment of 3% peroxide to bulk tank water at 1ml/G.  During this treatment, I was sheltered in place with tank in my presence.  After 7 days, the only damage observed was dissemination of amphipods & copepods.  Spaghetti worms,  bristle worms, micro starfish. Asterina starfish, tunicates, bryozoans, sponges on rock and prized Orange Tree Sponge all faired well.  
 

Peroxide treatment, of display tank only, was conducted 2 hours after lights out.  Refugium & diy algae reactor were taken off line for 6 hours of peroxide treatment.

 

After 7 days, I discontinued treatment yesterday.  At that time, I circulated water between 75G/25 year mature tank and peroxide treated tank to add diversity of microbes.

[Subsea]

New additions which I am very happy with are ornamental sponges of different colors & shapes like Orange Tree, Sponge, Yellow Ball Sponge and Orange Elephant Ear Sponge.

[Christopher Marks]

Glad to hear the cold didn't give you too much trouble!

 

I love those new sponges, particularly the Orange Tree Sponge, wow! I don't know that I've even seen that one before.

[Subsea]

2 hours ago, Christopher Marks said:

Glad to hear the cold didn't give you too much trouble!

 

I love those new sponges, particularly the Orange Tree Sponge, wow! I don't know that I've even seen that one before.

I got them in the fall from Reeftopia before diver collection in GOM is sporadic due to weather.  I have seen them before, but never that big.  I have two.  The one in the 120G never required any  cleaning on my part but the one in 75G has to get toothbrush clean every week or two.  However, the Algae Blennie & Hippo Tang graze out chunks and it doesn’t seem to bother it.  In reading research paper by Dutch scientist, a sponge filters & removes so much POC (particulate organic carbon) that it should double in size every 4 hours, except for the detritus that it slough off.  That detritus is carbon for the microbial loop.

 

 

[growsomething]

I have gotten a yellow ball sponge, and it's got a light coat of brown "hair" algae.  Was wondering what to do with it, didn't think I should brush it off, but it sounds like I can.

Sponges are underutilized beautiful reef creatures imo.  Those look great in contrast with the green coral.

 

[Subsea]

1 hour ago, growsomething said:

I have gotten a yellow ball sponge, and it's got a light coat of brown "hair" algae.  Was wondering what to do with it, didn't think I should brush it off, but it sounds like I can.

Sponges are underutilized beautiful reef creatures imo.  Those look great in contrast with the green coral.

 

Kudos to sponges.  They are massive filters.

 

Thank you for kind words.  I llike bright color contrast in all of my aquascaping with live colors.  I consider sponges the third tripod of biofiltration in my 25 year mature system.  

I am a high nutrient system so they often brown up with micro algae or perhapes diatoms.  Hermits, snails, micro starfish, Asterina starfish and pods will all graze on micro algae or perhaps diatoms.  However, they don’t do a complete job, so I am that janitor with a toothbrush.  They are a lot tougher than you might think.   Can you see vent pores?  Some people keep them in the shade to prevent algae.  I prefer to light them up to show them off.  

https://www.live-plants.com

In speaking with Russ Kronwetter, diver/owner of GCE, he discribed the two locations that he collected four variety of ornamental sponges.  One location was on a vertical shelf in 30’ and other location was a horizontal shelf at 50’.   He stressed the high energy level that tossed Volkswagen sized boulders in 50’ of water.  So, both locations have all four variety that thrive.  So, I say sponges can adjust to enviromental conditions with emphasis on light intensity.   From his advice on husbandry of husbandry for sponges aggressive circulation is paramount.    These sponges are collected in the warm waters of the Gulf of Mexico which is nutrient rich to support the Greek “sponge fleet” at Tarpon Springs.  I will link what uncured diver collected live rock looks like.  For some, it would be intimidating to add.    I started first marine aquarium in 1971 as a 55G Galveston Bay biotheme.   I collected grass shrimp and green mollies from marsh grass flats.  I also collected live oyster culture with many fan worms and barnacles and used it as central display.  I knew nothing about their needs and over a period of 2 years, real live rock became normal live rock which surfaced as  a shelter for fish.  No corals then, but I started with live oysters filtering water alongside barnacles & fan worms.   

 

Note this about sponges, they require silicates to flourish.

[growsomething]

Here she is in hirsute glory

 

Here is one I saw in 2' of water in New pass, Sarasota

 

 

What you describe as a Galviston biotope sounds like what I see fishing the bay.  Someday I'd like to do a biotope here with grass, shrimp, etc collected here.  This is an abandoned bucket I pulled up from a dock here.

 

 

 

On an unrelated note, I'm a big fan of Paul B.  I see you are too.  Not 100% sure if velvet got introduced into his system he wouldn't have deaths, but I love to read his ideas.

[Subsea]

Impressive diversity of invertebrate on that live bucket.  Where was that picture taken.  
 

Use a toothbrush on your sponge.  I usually hold sponge in one hand 1” underwater near light and vigorously brush algae off.

 

Just did clean off yellow ball sponge.

 

RED Tree Sponge needs TLC as snail lays a trail of eggs on sponge.

[growsomething]

Thanks for the advice, thought sponges were too delicate for that.  Old bucket is in Sarasota Bay,  midway between 2 Gulf passes, Big Pass and New Pass.

[filefishfinatic]

On 2/24/2021 at 10:55 PM, growsomething said:

Here she is in hirsute glory

 

Here is one I saw in 2' of water in New pass, Sarasota

 

 

What you describe as a Galviston biotope sounds like what I see fishing the bay.  Someday I'd like to do a biotope here with grass, shrimp, etc collected here.  This is an abandoned bucket I pulled up from a dock here.

 

 

 

On an unrelated note, I'm a big fan of Paul B.  I see you are too.  Not 100% sure if velvet got introduced into his system he wouldn't have deaths, but I love to read his ideas.

i am telling my grandma to obtain one of those ' location and to tag it then i will ship it home on fall break. 

[filefishfinatic]

where are some good places to obtain invertabrates? i plan to do the ten gallon starting early fall

[Subsea]

Good Invertebrates that you can’t buy, come in on real  live rock.    Leave sea apples & flame scallops  out of live stock options until tank is > 1 yr established.  Where will you be at school?