Cambro Reef

[jahnje]

5 minutes ago, Subsea said:

Why is a round tank surface a problem for coralline?

I assumed they meant it would be difficult to clean with a regular scraper.  

[Subsea]

On 11/7/2017 at 4:09 PM, jahnje said:

So while resisting the urge to over feed my corals. I decided to head out to the store and just get some more that I could feed....   Bought two frags of zoas of an orange variety.   Picked solely both frags had some sort of long stringy algae on them, and since these came from Petco I'm sure a number of bugs as well.  But I feel like sciencing today so... Using this as an excuse to try my hand at dipping and getting my QT procedures down better.   I drip acclimate starting with 1 litre of bag water and 5L of qt water.  Once there is enough water to keep thing above 1L in the destination container, I pulled 120 ml of mixed water out, and mixed it with 10 ml of 'bayer total insect killer'.  Let it soak for 5 min, then flushed with more mixed water using a syringe a few times. Then returned to container. I repeated this for the other zoa as well.  Polyps closed up, but that was about it.  Next I pulled 90 ml of mixed water and 30 ml of peroxide, and let one zoa soak for 5 min. Tips turned white and puckered up nice and tight.  Not doing the other so I have a bit of a control. We'll see how it goes...

 

   

Following along.  I love the idea of dad/daughter project.  How are you getting all that coral in a tiny Pico.

[jahnje]

1 minute ago, Subsea said:

Following along.  I love the idea of dad/daughter project.  How are you getting all that coral in a tiny Pico.

Trying to keep them interested is the hard part. It's kind like herding cats... no actually, it exactly like herding cats.   

 

As for keeping all of the coral in a tiny pico. I'm really viewing the whole project as mildly temporary. What got me interested was the idea of using pico containers for a coral QT system.  So there's a fair amount of experimentation  in this to see how densely I can pack things, and with the ability to do a full water change in under a minute, as well as split one pico in multiples whenever I need to, I've got a lot of flexibility to see what really works.   and what doesn't... 

[duderubble]

1 hour ago, Subsea said:

Why is a round tank surface a problem for coralline?

Because it typically requires a steel straight edge to scrape off. 

[Subsea]

Duh.  Of course for viewing.  I forgot, I once had a bow front whose corners were a PITA to wipe clean.

 

Enjoy the passion,

[jahnje]

Random update: 

Doing some more peroxide dipping. Trying to find out the minimum amount I can use and be effective. Curious if I can just dip repeatedly over a few days, and have less stress on the corals. So I'm re-dipping @ 100:1 h2o:h2o2. This is a little above the above the minimum amount that  where oxidation becomes fairly visible.  So this is 1ml of h2o2 in 100ml of tank water for 5 min. 

    

 

Also managed to snap a picture of impulse buy cichlid. I think I'll name him 'frag.' He's going to hang out with the coral for a couple of weeks. He seems pretty thrilled about his new pvc home. Hoping it'll keep him a little less stressed. 

 

[fishfreak0114]

Gorgeous cichlid!  He looks kind of similar to one of mine.

[Subsea]

4 hours ago, jahnje said:

Random update: 

Doing some more peroxide dipping. Trying to find out the minimum amount I can use and be effective. Curious if I can just dip repeatedly over a few days, and have less stress on the corals. So I'm re-dipping @ 100:1 h2o:h2o2. This is a little above the above the minimum amount that  where oxidation becomes fairly visible.  So this is 1ml of h2o2 in 100ml of tank water for 5 min. 

    

 

Also managed to snap a picture of impulse buy cichlid. I think I'll name him 'frag.' He's going to hang out with the coral for a couple of weeks. He seems pretty thrilled about his new pvc home. Hoping it'll keep him a little less stressed. 

 

At that 100:1 concentration, what exactly are you dipping coral for:  macro, parasites, fungi and the list goes on.

[jahnje]

16 minutes ago, Subsea said:

At that 100:1 concentration, what exactly are you dipping coral for:  macro, parasites, fungi and the list goes on.

algae, as well as just seeing what kind of effect it has on my coral. I know I can dip much stronger, but I'm curious how little is effective.  All  of the discussions seem to be about the max, I'm curious about the min.  Is there a balance in there somewhere, where xenia survives and algae doesn't.  If I dip a little each day, will it have the same effect as a high strength soak?  Just looking for my own real numbers and observations.

 

I'm not saying it hasn't been done before. Mostly I'm just curious.  I don't have any fungi on my frags that I'm aware of or recognize, but I do have a some hair algae coming in. I know I can remove it via water changes and a reduction in feeding, but I'm really just trying to get a feel for what the environment is like as far as treatments are concerned.  Esp if It means I can push the growth rates of my frags while still maintaining control, and not having to do large WCs but other things.  

3 hours ago, fishfreak0114 said:

Gorgeous cichlid!  He looks kind of similar to one of mine.

I hadn't ever really seen one if his color before.  And he's even washed out from stress at the moment.  He's a crazy fire engine red orange.

Edited November 11, 2017 by jahnje
longer thought

[Subsea]

I have reservations about low dose treatments.  Perhapes not so with h2O2, but in general, low dose treatments promote tolerances to medications with super bacteria as a result.  Instead of testing effectiveness against pest, you are testing the tolerance of the coral to the treatment.   I see little merit to that unless you are trying to increase the tolerance of coral on the high end by soaking them on the low end.  I have found no need to go higher than 10% for ten minutes.  This kills all algae, worms, pods, micro stars but does not effect Aptasia.  So I ask, what do you plan to eradicate with your hydrogen peroxide dip.

 

 

[pappadumplingz]

3 minutes ago, Subsea said:

I have reservations about low dose treatments.  Perhapes not so with h2O2, but in general, low dose treatments promote tolerances to medications with super bacteria as a result.  Instead of testing effectiveness against pest, you are testing the tolerance of the coral to the treatment.   I see little merit to that unless you are trying to increase the tolerance of coral on the high end by soaking them on the low end.  I have found no need to go higher than 10% for ten minutes.  This kills all algae, worms, pods, micro stars but does not effect Aptasia.  So I ask, what do you plan to eradicate with your hydrogen peroxide dip.

 

 

I was always under the impression that peroxide dips were for algae related issues, but I could be wrong. This pico is progressing very nicely might I add.

[jahnje]

1 hour ago, Subsea said:

I have reservations about low dose treatments.  Perhapes not so with h2O2, but in general, low dose treatments promote tolerances to medications with super bacteria as a result.  Instead of testing effectiveness against pest, you are testing the tolerance of the coral to the treatment.   I see little merit to that unless you are trying to increase the tolerance of coral on the high end by soaking them on the low end.  I have found no need to go higher than 10% for ten minutes.  This kills all algae, worms, pods, micro stars but does not effect Aptasia.  So I ask, what do you plan to eradicate with your hydrogen peroxide dip.

 

 

just algae, and just the minimum required to be effective. I've got what I think is hair algae. I have seen dosages all over the place that are effective.  10:1 here, 3:1 there. I'd really like to find a spot that does minimal damage to coral while being effective as an algae treatment.   If there's a risk of damage to corals, then why go as high as I have seen? why not see if there is a lower place that works just as well. I'd rather not do a multi-day regime.  But i'd like to know what is oxidizing in the dip, since something is. If I has no effect on the algae after a couple of days or more, then that's obviously not it, so I'll up the concentration.  When my algae bleaches out i'll know where I need to be, and have some hard numbers to play with.  

[jahnje]

And the designing continues...  I think I like this. The fimo clay is currently just a little too difficult to work with. Too soft to make any real structures out of it.  And not enough time to investigate marine safe ways to make it more stable at the moment.  We may get, there, but who knows... We have the mermaid and that may be enough. I think we're going to make her a garden to sit in. So we've been working on that.  Haven't super glued anything down yet, this was mostly a test to see what stacked and drilled travertine tiles would look like.  I'll probably add a few more to fill in some of the blank spaces. maybe...  I drilled 1/2" holes in the pieces along the top so frag posts could come in and out easily. I'll leave the rubble on the bottom unattached so that I can move corals around as need be, while letting them still attach as they want. Spent about an hour this weekend with the girls identifying each of the corals in the tank, as well as teaching them to read different specific gravities.  RO, tap, fresh, and marine.  They had a pretty good time and always like to learn stuff, as long as it doesn't take too long....

 

    

[Subsea]

On 11/11/2017 at 10:33 PM, jahnje said:

just algae, and just the minimum required to be effective. I've got what I think is hair algae. I have seen dosages all over the place that are effective.  10:1 here, 3:1 there. I'd really like to find a spot that does minimal damage to coral while being effective as an algae treatment.   If there's a risk of damage to corals, then why go as high as I have seen? why not see if there is a lower place that works just as well. I'd rather not do a multi-day regime.  But i'd like to know what is oxidizing in the dip, since something is. If I has no effect on the algae after a couple of days or more, then that's obviously not it, so I'll up the concentration.  When my algae bleaches out i'll know where I need to be, and have some hard numbers to play with.  

Your methodology is good.  You will have to do the same test for each coral species that you maintain.  If one Pico is all you have to maintain in your life, I applaud your dedication.  In too many people’s lives, time is the most precious commodity that we have.  I started reading PaulB ebook.  He and I both started reefing after Vietnam.  When Paul returned home to Long Island he started a 100G reef tank that has been set up for 44 years.  The introduction to Paul’s book was done by his 40 year old daughter that grew up collecting “stuff” to go into the tank.  If we want to show our children love, quality time with them is well spent and transcends generations.

 

You are right about some collateral damage going my route.  When you have too many tanks, methods get adjusted.

 

My only display tank is a 25 year old 75G Jaubert Plenum 

[jahnje]

1 hour ago, Subsea said:

 If one Pico is all you have to maintain in your life, I applaud your dedication.

HA! the other 6 tanks are all fresh water...   I'm working on a 160 or 220 reef next. Haven't bought the tank yet. The pico is more of an experiment with corals and my QT system. As well as a way to build initial experience with corals.  Though this one in the end will probably end up in one of the girls bedrooms.  

 

An older picture of my upstairs 75 gallon x2. cichlid on left, koi, god help me, on right. Koi headed for pond in spring.  as it is right now, I have to do a 30 Gallon  WC on them each week. 

 

downstairs in basement. Spot on right is going to be re done to support at least a 160. 

[SaltyBuddha]

Love the location of those tanks upstairs. They look really cool with your architecture going on. 

[jahnje]

1 hour ago, SaltyBuddha said:

Love the location of those tanks upstairs. They look really cool with your architecture going on. 

Thanks. Everyone gets a kick out of the fish over their heads staring down at them.  I tried to build the stands to match what I'd done with the house. Came out pretty well. The SO wanted/wants two more up there, but I started getting nervous about the weight. Takes a couple of years or so for the woods to match, so at this point it's pretty difficult to tell that they're not a part of the house. 

[jahnje]

So got my "garden wall" all super glued up. And am now soaking it in some salt water for a little while, not sure how long. To make sure anything weird is off. Ran the backside of the wall on the belt sander a little bit so as to make sure it wouldn't scratch up the sides of the container.  I'm also soaking the the extra "rubble" pieces so that I can use them for the floor.  You can kinda see where the holes are drilled for the frag plugs.  I'm open to suggestions for how long I should soak this travertine. I figure if I don't get any ammonia off of it in 24 hours, that's probably enough.  I'm going to assume phosphate is also as unlikely.  safe assumptions? 

 

[vlangel]

59 minutes ago, jahnje said:

So got my "garden wall" all super glued up. And am now soaking it in some salt water for a little while, not sure how long. To make sure anything weird is off. Ran the backside of the wall on the belt sander a little bit so as to make sure it wouldn't scratch up the sides of the container.  I'm also soaking the the extra "rubble" pieces so that I can use them for the floor.  You can kinda see where the holes are drilled for the frag plugs.  I'm open to suggestions for how long I should soak this travertine. I figure if I don't get any ammonia off of it in 24 hours, that's probably enough.  I'm going to assume phosphate is also as unlikely.  safe assumptions? 

 

It kind of puts me in mind of the lost city Atlantis!  Now only to be inhabited by mermaids, and o yeah...coral. Ha ha!

[morecoffee]

I've heard of people soaking tiles in the tank of a toilet.  (Multiple daily water changes with no effort.)

 

I'm thinking you need a small cave with some "poor unfortunate souls".  I'm not sure what would work for that.  Maybe some Christmas tree worms.

Edited November 15, 2017 by morecoffee
Typo

[jahnje]

30 minutes ago, vlangel said:

It kind of puts me in mind of the lost city Atlantis!  Now only to be inhabited by mermaids, and o yeah...coral. Ha ha!

you'll notice we already have the mermaid ready to go.. 

 

3 minutes ago, morecoffee said:

I've heard of people soaking tiles in the tank of a toilet.  (Multiple daily water changes with no effort.)

After some more research, I've found that a lot of people just wing it, and are using the 1x1 tiles which have had glue on them. These are 4x4 and have never had anything on them. But there is a suggestion of soaking them in RO water since it's a little acidic and then checking the POS levels.  My toilets have big ole chlorine tabs in them,  and my water has chloramines and sodium hydroxide. So given the porous nature of these, I'd be worried that might make it worse.  

 

3 minutes ago, morecoffee said:

I'm thinking you need a small cave with some "poor unfortunate souls".  I'm not sure what would work for that.  Maybe some Christmas tree worms.

as in guinea pigs or display purposes? 

[jahnje]

I think I may have found a meme to describe my current leanings....  

[jahnje]

37 minutes ago, morecoffee said:

Maybe some Christmas tree worms.

OMFG! I'd never seen those before.. must...  have... 

[morecoffee]

2 hours ago, jahnje said:

pigs or display purposes

Display purposes.  If you go with mermaid theme they would be the captured souls in Ursalus garden.  I have no idea of their actual proper placement.

[jahnje]

Moved all of the coral into position this morning. Looked angry while taking pictures but cleared up later.  I think I'm mostly satisfied with positioning.  Have the zoas up against the wall, and my rescue monti on top of it. I've got a couple of empty frags in there that have been growing coralline like crazy, and have placed the mermaid next to/on-ish them.  I figure the GSP would look nice cascading down the wall, while the hammer looks like a little tree in there.  

 

I'm off to Saint Louis today to hit up Gateway Aquatics, Saltwater Paradise, and The Corner Reef.  And see if I can get one or two decent frags.  This of course means packing my travel system.  Inverter, cooler, heater, bubbler and a couple of my smaller 4 qt containers.  Not getting any fish, so mostly will try and keep temp under control.