Help with Pocillopora SPS cant tell what's wrong

[sapling]

Hey guys, I have a bit of a small issue and its really bumming me out to see. My pocillopora I just recieved via mail has overnight lost several polyps. I cant tell if it was my fault or not, but I'll list my water parameters. this is from a 98.8% positive seller on ebay so I dont want to accuse them, but they offered two day shipping and it was so price effective I bought it. Is the coral bleaching or RTN? I've read that pocillopora with perform polyp bailout but I dont know how to look for that. the polyps were starting to extend yesterday, and look extended today.

My params the day before adding coral before being topped with 1 gal freshwater;

 

1.024 sg

77.5 degrees - Fahrenheit

 8dkh

440 ppm calcium

0 nitrate measurable

0 ammonia

7.8 ph

 

today after noticing the white skeleton.

 

1.023 sg

77.5 degrees Fahrenheit

8dkh

420 ppm calcium

0 nitrate measurable

0 ammonia

7.8 ph

I do not have a phosphate test kit, but I would think a aquatic life mini skimmer for 30 gals and chaeto would help bring phosphates to a minimal or at least acceptable level. the tank is hitting 6 months old at this point. 4 months if only considering this tank without transfer

 

I do not understand why the coral looks to be doing so bad, and its a little disheartening. My acclimation was as follows; I picked up the package from the Post man himself, taken home, immediately opened and placed the container into my tank for 30 minutes to get the same temp. Then the coral was taken out of its cup and placed into a prepped 1 gal of water from my tank with 1 drop of SFE and 4 capfuls of CoralRx. it was agitated with an air pump and sat in there for 25 minutes. after the timer was up, I took the coral and placed at sandbed of my tank, my lights are finnex stingray 20" so the lighting isnt very bright to begin with. the photoperiod had less than 5 hours left before it was off for the night.

during the time I saw the polyps starting to extend and it looked pretty good afaik, but it was today when I woke up to look it looks terrible. could this be polp bailout from the shipping, or RTN, or bleaching? what should I do, I do not own bone cutters to frag, the polyps are still out, and I will include pictures for reference. could this be because of the 2 day transit time? I'm just bummed because I thought I covered all my bases.

this is today at 10 am

 

this is yesterday at 5pm

[Clown79]

It looks like rtn. 

It can be caused from various reasons.

Sps aren't forgiving and 2 day shipping may be too hard on them.

 

Pocillipora needs high light and turbulent flow.

 

Is your light suitable for reefs or is it a standard led?

[sapling]

@Clown79

 

thanks for the response, I see, for what its worth, I had ordered a new reef capable light on the 26th, but it will not be shipped until the 10th. My current stingray lights puts out roughly 40-45 PAR to the sandbed which I felt was capable enough for the acclimation period for the sps as I heard you want it on the sandbed regardless before you move it up a week after. the LED strip does have 460nm deep blue leds and a few true 660nm red, the rest being 7k.  the light is considered low/medium par lighting depending on height. The seller was surprised when I shown the photos, saying that pocillopora was a better shipping coral for them.

i did notice when i looked at the pictures the coral already showed stress in one spot at the base where the RTN spread from, this photo is moments after being placed into the tank after acclimation and dipping. notice the bottom right of the base, its already pale to the rest of the body

 

Yes I have the spot at the tank for it, as I planned for it way ahead of time, but I thought not to place it there yet since it would stress it even more. wasnt the sandbed was the correct place to put it after acclimation? would it be recommended to bring it up, even though afaik that would be stressful? it'd be higher lighting and much higher flow if i do, it would be within about 6" from light.

but honestly I dont think lighting is the issue for the dieoff that happened overnight. but as an update the tissue dieoff has slowed down extremely vs what happened the first night. the patches on top are extended although more of the skeleton is showing. below the base looks almost unaffected by the RTN as its not showing any tissue loss since the first night with polyps mostly extended knock on wood.

can anything be done on my end to help with the RTN? I was worried to dip again, since I already dipped in coralRX and SFE when i acclimated. maybe raising salinity from 1.023 to 1.024 would help or would it worsen the situation? thank you for any replies, I really want to try and save it if its still possible. Is there anything I can look for or into?

[burtbollinger]

the extra day shipping could be it....but curious...how are you measuring salinity?

 

I've seen RTN at salinity below 1.024....others though, claim to have no issues with this...so its inconclusive...

 

My main point is:  You say you're at 1.023...if your test method is off, you might be sitting at 1.020...or lower.

 

just a thought.

[pj86]

It seems that the pocillopora has some form of tissue necrosis, RTN is just a generic term. At this point the best thing you can do is to keep parameters as stable as possible. Do not dip it again, as this will certainly cause it more harm.

 

I see that you had a decrease in salinity between day 1 and 2. Did you do a water change?

 

A decrease in salinity, means that calcium, alkalinity and magnesium also changed. When performing a water change you want to be certain the new saltwater is not significantly different from the saltwater in the tank, enough so the ions are replenished. 

 

Remember salinity is the measure of diffraction of light due to the ions in the saltwater. A lower salinity means that you will have a lower concentration of calcium, alkalinity and magnesium. Changing salinity drastically will cause more harm due to the change in parameters. 

 

Also a 2 day shipping will definitely be hard on SPS corals, but can bounce back with the right systems. 

 

 

[sapling]

@burtbollinger

 

thanks again for the insight burt, after reading what you said, I happen to own a swing arm for in tank, a swing arm for the new mixes, and a glass float hydrometer. I just tested against themselves to see accuracy.(my swing for tank measured 1.023, my older one for water mix is 1.020, and dual glass float hydrometer to 1.023)  I know I should look into a refractometer now since the swing arm for mixing is 0.002-3 off for some reason after retrying the test, but the swing arm in the tank wasnt off, since my glass hydrometer agreed with it. thanks for the suggestion, Will look into that, is there a specific range i should use? the ones on amazon show 1.000-1.070 for marine use, is this suitable? its the closest one to my budget, as i saw the red sea one is 50 vs the ones at 20-25.

@pj86

thank you pj86, yes I did a fresh water top off(i manually add water because of evap, its open top) before the coral got there, since I knew I shouldnt touch the parameters once it gets here, the ca and alk looked in line, so I did not think 1 gal would knock it terribly off from expected. I did not test immediately after the water top off, do you feel like those parameters on day 2 were not good?

Like i mentioned, the tissue at the base has not peeled off like what was above on the main stem. could the encrusted tissue be safe from this then? if tissue and polyp loss has slowed down, is this a good sign? or is it too early to tell? is the polyps still being extended any good sign or does this irrelevant with this issue? and I should not not move it correct?

thank you both for the advice so far

[Clown79]

2 hours ago, sapling said:

@burtbollinger

 

thanks again for the insight burt, after reading what you said, I happen to own a swing arm for in tank, a swing arm for the new mixes, and a glass float hydrometer. I just tested against themselves to see accuracy.(my swing for tank measured 1.023, my older one for water mix is 1.020, and dual glass float hydrometer to 1.023)  I know I should look into a refractometer now since the swing arm for mixing is 0.002-3 off for some reason after retrying the test, but the swing arm in the tank wasnt off, since my glass hydrometer agreed with it. thanks for the suggestion, Will look into that, is there a specific range i should use? the ones on amazon show 1.000-1.070 for marine use, is this suitable? its the closest one to my budget, as i saw the red sea one is 50 vs the ones at 20-25.

@pj86

thank you pj86, yes I did a fresh water top off(i manually add water because of evap, its open top) before the coral got there, since I knew I shouldnt touch the parameters once it gets here, the ca and alk looked in line, so I did not think 1 gal would knock it terribly off from expected. I did not test immediately after the water top off, do you feel like those parameters on day 2 were not good?

Like i mentioned, the tissue at the base has not peeled off like what was above on the main stem. could the encrusted tissue be safe from this then? if tissue and polyp loss has slowed down, is this a good sign? or is it too early to tell? is the polyps still being extended any good sign or does this irrelevant with this issue? and I should not not move it correct?

thank you both for the advice so far

You need to make a mark on the tank in an area that's discrete, Mark it at it's fullest with the correct salinity. When it drops, that's where you top up too. That will ensure you are topping up the correct amount and not changing the salinity by over filling

 

 

[Thrassian Atoll]

It looked like it had some tissue loss from the shipment and went from there.  You can chop off the little bit that's left and try and save it that way or glue the edges down.  I think if you leave it though it's going to be a goner.  

 

Like the others have said, your salinity is too low for sps.  You need to be at 1.025-1.026.  

[I'm Batman]

Same thing going on.... I have some recession then this weird white film grew over it...

 

My Montis are doing awesome but this little guy... just hanging on!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Thrassian Atoll]

5 minutes ago, I'm Batman said:

Same thing going on.... I have some recession then this weird white film grew over it...

 

My Montis are doing awesome but this little guy... just hanging on!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Frags those tips to save it.

[I'm Batman]

1 minute ago, TILTON said:

 

Frags those tips to save it.

Is that the best way? Frag it, seal up the cut ends with glue and throw away the skeleton? Or keep the skeleton?

[Thrassian Atoll]

Just now, I'm Batman said:

Is that the best way? Frag it, seal up the cut ends with glue and throw away the skeleton? Or keep the skeleton?

Yeah, that's the best way to save it.  If it was just a little bit of rtn, it might make it by doing nothing.  Yours looks like it is almost a goner though.  Frag it up to the the living area and glue it to a plug.  

[sapling]

I dont have the tools to frag, nor are there any tips long enough without the lost tissue to frag. I dont have glue but I do have silicon. Did not do either.

so an update so far of the coral, it is still alive, and it almost looks like tissue is coming back? I specifically see 3 areas that I can notice that have 1 more polyp than before or new tissue. I didnt know the coral will grow over its skeleton again, I really am hoping this is a good sign. I havent noticed any more tissue loss when comparing my daily photos of it. the coral is Extended as usual, but i dont think i should move it until the new light comes in, and it acclimates to that.

has anyone had luck feeding a pocillopora newly hatched brine shrimp? I've seen mine capture them, but dont know if they are able to eat.

My refractometer and fluid came in and I calibrated with 35 ppt fluid. it agreed with my hydrometer in tank, and floating glass hydrometer. so my measuring salinity accuracy seems fine.

Also I am currently getting ready to increase the salinity from 1.023 to 1.024 by adding salt water at 1.023 instead of fresh during my top off to let evap do the increase, afaik I am shooting for 1.025 eventually correct? then I will do my usual 10% water change after mixing the new batch to 1.023

Finally, I have bought a BRS 4 stage rodi and finished setting it up and followed directions. I do not have a TDS meter due to budget, but should be safe to assume this will be better than tap water ?

[Thrassian Atoll]

Glad it's not receding anymore.  I like my salinity at 1.026.  1.025 is fine.  The RODI will be a lot better than using tap water.  The tds meter helps to know when to change your filters.  I think there is a guide though to know how many gallons each filter goes through before it needs changed.

[SelectedByNature]

Hope your coral is doing better.

 

I feel like your description of the dipping process seemed a bit intense. I could be wrong but I think it's one capful of Coral RX per gallon and not 4? Also 25 mins seems like a lot. 

 

Hope it makes it!

[sapling]

@SelectedByNature yeah I appreciate it! 

the reason I did that was because of this particular pinned thread on the coral subforum, https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/159974-the-official-way-to-dip-and-acclimate-sps/

as for the CoralRX I just did what was said on the bottle, 20ml per gallon, or 4 caps. followed the instructions for SFE as well. I did not use interceptor like the OP but felt the overall process seemed suitable since its even pinned. what would you have recommended for the dip?

 

[SelectedByNature]

1 hour ago, sapling said:

@SelectedByNature yeah I appreciate it! 

the reason I did that was because of this particular pinned thread on the coral subforum, https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/159974-the-official-way-to-dip-and-acclimate-sps/

as for the CoralRX I just did what was said on the bottle, 20ml per gallon, or 4 caps. followed the instructions for SFE as well. I did not use interceptor like the OP but felt the overall process seemed suitable since its even pinned. what would you have recommended for the dip?

 

Oh okay I wasn't familiar with that thread, and I could have sworn it was 1 capful, my bad!

[Clown79]

Ya it's 4 caps per gallon but only for 5-10mins.

[Lypto]

well,there's a bright side, even if the whole piece goes, You'll probably wind up with a whole bunch of little ones popping up. Hope it gets better!

[sapling]

@Clown79 yeah thats how I've usually done it when I was using coralRx for my GSP with the nudibranch issue. I only did 25 minutes this time because of the thread. It wouldnt be pinned if it wasnt correct would it? I remember reading the toothbrush bit but felt that was a little extreme as well, but I try not to assume to know more since coral care seems to be such a deep topic to learn, and im in no way an expert

[xiaoxiy]

Just as a counter argument for the salinity. I typically run my salinity at 1.023-1.024 on my SPS dominant system without issue. Parameter stability is likely more important than the difference of running a tank at 1.023 vs 1.026. 

 

Pocillipora are typically pretty hardy corals. If everything stays stable, I'd expect a full recovery from your coral, especially since it sounds like the RTN has stopped and tissue has begun healing as well.