New 20g setup

[ThorReefer]

Alright, so I am new to the hobby (just starting with this aquarium), and have been working on setting this aquarium up for about a month (began 9/1/17). Before I dive into things, I am just wanting to get general advice on where to go from here, how quickly I should progress, and other things I need to more completely balance out the ecosystem I am creating.

 

Equipment: So, I have an Innovative Marine Nuvo Fusion 20g aquarium, with IM Ghost protein skimmer (mid-sized), running a filter sock on one side of my overflow and a media basket with mechanical sponge, carbon sponge, and phosphate sponge. I have reef rubble in my sump area as a breeding ground for copepods and amphipods. I am running the stock sump pump, but have swapped out the nozzles from the sump for 2 rotating flow deflectors by Hydor. I am running AquaIllumination Prime lighting about 12 inches off of the water surface. I am keeping my water at about 77 degrees Fahrenheit, verified with Coralife digital thermometer. I am also running a Seachem Nitrate sponge in my sump area to keep my nitrates low.

 

Biological Filtration: I am keeping the salinity of my water at 1.025-1.026 SG, and have 20 pounds of live sand, and approximately 12 pounds of live rock (about 10 pounds thickly covered in coralline algae at purchase). From Day 1 of the cycling process I have added 1 capful of Seachem Stability each night to the display area. I watched the ammonia and nitrite levels rise and fall fairly quickly (within 1 week), and they have been essentially zero since. Nitrate levels have risen slowly to between 5-10 ppm (as per Red Sea master test kit). I recently added 3 different kinds of seaweed (feather, grape, and chaeto) to the main tank area to help with the filtration and keeping nitrates low. I was told they wouldn't do well in my sump area since they wouldn't get much lighting there. I am doing topoffs with soft-water from the tap that I treat with Seachem Prime (considering moving to RO, not sure the difference it will make though). I added a colony of copepods about 2 weeks ago and currently have them all over all of my glass and in the water (it is kind of gross looking actually).

 

Livestock: After the ammonia and nitrites went back to 0, and I had a VERY thick mat of brown diatom algae all over the glass, liverock, and sand I added 10 snails (assortment of asterea, trochus, margarita, turbo nerite) and 5 blue dwarf hermit crabs. A week later I added 5 Cerith snails to treat my sand, and after about another 2 weeks they completely wiped out the brown algae bloom. I then waited another week before introducing a pair of clownfish (male and female). They have been in the tank for about a week at present. They were added approximately 4 weeks after starting the cycle. I have also added over the last 2 weeks 3 corals (gorgeous bright orange aussie plate coral with blue tips, gold torch coral, and a small colony of zoanthids (approximately 6-8 polyps)). I have also added a small (about 1-2" across) rose BTA. I feed daily with a small amount of fish flakes in the evening, and in the mornings I feed a dry blended specialty reef food (has all sorts of rotifers, copepods, vitamins, etc.) that is produced locally. I feed the plate coral and anemone approximately twice per week with small pieces of Tilapia or mysis/brine shrimp.

 

So, I am kind of looking for a review of how I have handled the process. I am trying to go slow on adding the things, but I would like to learn from this process so that I can be successful in the future. What would you have done differently, and what do you think I can still change? Are there any crucial portions of the ecosystem that I am currently missing? Thank you all for your time and consideration! Constructive criticism is welcome!

[Clown79]

Hello and welcome

 

 

So What i would have done differently if it was my tank:

 

No sponges for filtration. They are nutrient factories. Using floss replaced twice a week is better.

Use phosphate reducers when they are needed.

I like using carbon media in media bags.

 

No rubble in the back chamber, it will be difficult to keep it clean of detritus

 

No tap water use. Only ro/di or distilled.

 

The macroalgae in the display, only certain types are good in the display while others are best contained to a refugium. Some make a mess like chaeto, cualerpa can attach and take over a tank, some go a sexual which can be an issue in a tank.

 

I wouldn't have added an anemone to a new tank.

 

 

Otherwise everything else sounds good.

[Dreichler]

49 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Hello and welcome

 

 

So What i would have done differently if it was my tank:

 

No sponges for filtration. They are nutrient factories. Using floss replaced twice a week is better.

Use phosphate reducers when they are needed.

I like using carbon media in media bags.

 

No rubble in the back chamber, it will be difficult to keep it clean of detritus

 

No tap water use. Only ro/di or distilled.

 

The macroalgae in the display, only certain types are good in the display while others are best contained to a refugium. Some make a mess like chaeto, cualerpa can attach and take over a tank, some go a sexual which can be an issue in a tank.

 

I wouldn't have added an anemone to a new tank.

 

 

Otherwise everything else sounds good.

Clown79 said it all very well.  Replace those sponges with filter floss that's changed 1-2 times per week.  Take out the rubble because you will want to clean those chambers every other water change.  Speaking of water change, in a small 20g, you should do a 4-5 gallon water change weekly.  This will really help your water chemistry stay stable and replenish used nutrients.  If you wanna do macro for filtration purposes, you should look into a HOB refugium.  Macro for display reasons, go with dragons breath!  I agree with Clown79 that adding a BTA was too early.  They prefer an established tank about 6-9 months old.  Remember, keep up with water changes!  Maintainance and stability is the key to this hobby. 

 

By the way, post some pics of the setup! 

[TFish77]

Welcome to the 20 gallon club  !

 

Best advice I can give is keep things as simple as possible and learn as much as you can overtime. For a successful starter reef tank you need salt water, live rock, sand (live preferably), light, and flow. It's very easy to over complicate things initially and let everything get out of whack.  Set the tank up, let it run for a month or two, then get on a weekly or bi weekly (depending on livestock) water change schedule with good RO/DI salt water. 

 

You ask the same question to 10 different people in this hobby and often times you will get 10 different answers. Do your research, take everything with a grain of salt, and make the best decision for your tank/wallet. 

 

I wish you the best of luck! 

[Lugmos12]

19 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Hello and welcome

 

 

So What i would have done differently if it was my tank:

 

No sponges for filtration. They are nutrient factories. Using floss replaced twice a week is better.

Use phosphate reducers when they are needed.

I like using carbon media in media bags.

 

No rubble in the back chamber, it will be difficult to keep it clean of detritus

 

No tap water use. Only ro/di or distilled.

 

The macroalgae in the display, only certain types are good in the display while others are best contained to a refugium. Some make a mess like chaeto, cualerpa can attach and take over a tank, some go a sexual which can be an issue in a tank.

 

I wouldn't have added an anemone to a new tank.

 

 

Otherwise everything else sounds good.

What's a good macro for the display?

 

I tried chaeto for like 3 days and hated it because it made a mess

[Clown79]

Dragons breath is one I know of, mangroves is another.

[ThorReefer]

Hey everyone! Thanks for the replies! I am excited to see so many giving me feedback. Thanks!

 

So, I forgot to mention the back story with the BTA. I have heard that they prefer a more established aquarium, and was just curious as to why that is? To my understanding, after a tank is cycled and the levels are stable, I just don't understand what will change substantially from that point to 6-7 months old? Thanks! So on to the story of the BTA, a local LFS was bought out by a guy who was new to the hobby (and for some reason decided it was a good idea to own an LFS? Yeah I didn't understand that either) and he had moved a lot of the livestock around. He had 2 BTAs in these small tanks under fluorescent lighting and had had them under that for about a month. They looked awful! They were almost completely devoid of color, and he said on top of that he wasn't feeding them either. He said they looked like they were dying and offered me a killer deal for one ($5). So, even though my tank was new I couldn't pass up that deal. Well the BTA has been in my tank for...3 weeks? 2 weeks? Now and the coloration is coming back, it is looking loads better and I am feeding it approximately twice a week.

 

I will post a picture tomorrow when my lights come on! Keep in mind, my aquarium is super young, so I don't really have the gorgeous setups that I am seeing on you guys' profiles.

 

So with filter floss will it still provide chemical filtration, and not just mechanical filtration? What brands of filter floss do you recommend?

 

And if I am using the rubble in the sump area as a breeding ground for copepods, is it necessarily a bad thing that detritus will pile up in there? Don't copepods feed on detritus, so wouldn't that kind of just increase their quality of habitat? Sorry if my logic is flawed, I am just trying to learn from all of you!

 

I have been told that a 10-15% water change is sufficient, and this seems to be a topic where I can't seem to get a standard answer. So for my tank I have been doing about a 2 gallon water change weekly, and supplementing iodine with that (Kent formula stuff, 1 drop as per instructions). Should I increase my water changes? I am using RO/DI saltwater from my local LFS for water changes, just haven't been doing top offs with RO/DI...I will make that change. 

 

Now that I am starting to add livestock, how long should I wait from 9/25/17 (when I added my first fish, those 2 clowns) until I add more? I have heard everything from 1 week to 1 month, so I was just planning on waiting a month before I add anything. I have been testing my levels daily. Ammonia and Nitrite are still at 0, Nitrates are probably...7...somewhere in between 5-10 anyway, but a bit closer to 5, in my opinion. And how long should I wait in between adding corals?

 

Thanks again for all of the feedback! I am taking note and making changes. I will pick up a jug of RO water tomorrow (Local LFS gives free RO refills for life if you buy a 5 gallon jug from him for 10 bucks). I will place an order for dragons breath with an LFS (if anyone can get any after all the hurricanes). And how do you guys clean down in those chambers in the sump area? I can see some buildup down in there, but I can't fit my hands down in there and my siphon doesn't seem to pick up most of the buildup down there.

 

Thanks for your help!

 

[Clown79]

New reef tanks go through many stages for the first yr. There are many algae stages to come, they aren't stable until past 7mnths.

Your numbers can be stable for 5 weeks and then you will start going through changes and consumption of params which needs monitoring and dosing amongst other issues.

 

This is why anemones should be avoided until the tank has matured some. Anemones are very sensitive and if they go downhill in a tank, it can destroy all other inhabitants in there.

 

Filter floss collects particles in the water like fish poop and food. 

The sponge is not a chemical media either, it's used in freshwater to not only collect particles but for biological filtration.

In sw your liverock is the bio filter and sponges are nutrient factories.

 

You don't want detritus in your back chamber. The chambers get dirty enough on their own without the rubble. They need cleaning and siphoning every 2 weeks. 

The pods will not take care of that.

To grow pods you need more than just rubble. A refugium with chaeto.

 

15% is average.

Is the lfs using ro/di or just ro?

Are you testing their water because many stores are unreliable with their water. Different salts are used, different salinity, not always ro/di.

 

You need to top up with fresh ro/di. No tap water.

You shouldn't be adding iodine either. 

If you aren't testing it, never add it. 

 

Iodine is easily overdosed and test kits aren't reliable.

 

It's in your salt mix, why are you adding it?

[ThorReefer]

I had just been told with the iodine that what was in the mix wasn't sufficient, so that is why I was adding it. I will definitely stop adding it.

 

Also, you can see attached a picture of my tank. My phone camera apparently doesn't pick up color well under actinic lights, but you can see the two clownfish in the back left of the tank and also the small male is smack dab in the center of the tank. My darker rocks are already covered in coralline algae, but the white one I got sandblasted and have had it in their since day 1, so it should be live rock by now for the most part.

 

But yeah my LFS seems to do pretty well with the salt water. They are always exactly 1.025 SG on their salinity. I know they at least use RO water, not sure if it is RO/DI though. 

 

So the sponges I have don't do chemical filtration? Even though phosphate and carbon sponges? One of them is just mechanical, but I was under the impression that they did some chemical filtration as well. But okay sounds good. So, what brand of filter floss do you find to be the best for the best price?

 

But okay I can remove the rubble from the back compartment. I already have copepods all over the glass in the display, and in the sump as well. I'll have to find a good siphon that can pick up the detritus in all the nooks and crannies around my sump.

[burtbollinger]

no iodine, remove that rubble before its a giant mess....also know that any advice Clown79 gives is legit.   no need to wait for confirmation or anything...

[ThorReefer]

Okay sounds good. And I meant no disrespect to Clown79. I was just trying to understand more than the "Dos and Donts" of the hobby, and more the "why". 

 

So how long should I wait in between adding livestock now that I have started adding fish?

 

What brand of filter floss do you recommend?

 

And you mentioned that in media bags you will put some filter media for chemical filtration purposes. What do you recommend that I use?

 

Thanks so much guys! I appreciate your help.

[Clown79]

Hey no offense taken at all. 

It's good to question anything. Not only do we understand it better but that's how we all learn? everyone does things differently.

 

There is carbon and phosphate sponges which are chemical, then there is the biological sponge which collects all the floating particles.

 

I have never used the phos or carbon sponges so I really can't verify if they are a nutrient issue or not.

 

It may be cheaper to buy media in containers and put them in media bags (even panty hose zip tied works)

 

The regular sponge would be replaced with the filter floss because the sponge just traps all the particles and even washing it doesn't help.

 

I think using the floss on top of the chemical sponges will prevent those sponges becoming an issue because the floss is collecting the majority of the crap. 

 

 

I use big al's filter floss. I buy a big bag for $12 cda. I cut it to size. I put a new piece in on waterchange day and then throw it out and replace mid week.

 

I use phosguard and matrix carbon in media bags. Buying the larger containers is more affordable and I use how much I need and replace when I need to.

 

I replace my carbon every 2-3 weeks and rinse the bag every week on waterchange day.

 

My phosguard is replaced as needed. Bag rinsed weekly as well.

 

If you don't have phos issues, don't add phosguard until you do and you need to monitor it. 

 

I also use purigen which is replaced when it goes brown.

 

I use a new baby bottle brush to scrub my chambers and then vacuum it out with my gravel vacuum. 

 

Some put their rubble in a media bag so they can have media but also have easy cleaning solution. The rubble isn't needed if you have enough rock in the tank.

 

Are you vacuuming sand during water changes? Blasting your liverock with a new turkey baster?

 

As for adding livestock, what are you planning on adding next?

 

Another fish, I'd give your tank time to adjust to the 2 fish first, another 2 weeks or so.

[ThorReefer]

Thanks for the info! Yeah unfortunately I am curious by nature, and the reason I decided to start an aquarium was actually because I love the science behind it. I love all of the things I have to learn, and all of the different chemicals and whatnot that need to be in balance to make a functional ecosystem.

 

But yeah I am running a three tiered media basket that my overflow runs through before entering my sump. The flow goes through a mechanical, then a carbon, then a phosphate sponge (all sponges). The sponges are very porous and made out of some kind of springy plastic, so they wash out easily. I have been rinsing them out bi-weekly, and it says to replace them monthly. They seem to rinse out pretty completely (as I can see the gunk in them to begin with), but it does seem logical that they would trap a lot of crap, and have plenty of buildup that I can't see.

 

Where do you get the Big Al's from? I can't find it on amazon.com or drsfostersmith.com.

 

But would the rubble in a media bag still allow access for copepods? I imagine it would be sufficient for the bacteria, but the main reason I added it was so copepods could reproduce back there and keep my tank fed with them. A kind of "safe haven" for the copepods to breed.

 

But I have been "dusting" my live rock with a turkey baster a few times a day, but I haven't been vacuuming my sand. I have gotten mixed reviews on this, and some people say it is a must, and others say it destroys a large part of the natural filter in the tank if you vacuum the sand. So I haven't done that yet.

 

The next fish that I am thinking of adding is a Green Mandarin. I have researched this fish a lot, and spoken with several LFS owners, and it seems like it is generally a difficult fish to keep. I just can't get over how cool looking they are, and my aquarium is already plastered with copepods on every surface (so many on the glass it is kind of gross), and that is why I was adding the rubble in the sump is so that would provide the green mandarin with food to graze on. I also am planning on working with the fish to get it taking some frozen food so it won't starve. I talked with my LFS and he agreed that if its belly starts looking empty he will take it back and give me store credit so I can get a different fish and hopefully not kill the green mandarin. I am just hoping I can make it work, and I am always up for a challenge! Any thoughts here? I was planning on adding the green mandarin on the 30th of this month.

 

I like these ideas though! I will be using the rubble in a media bag idea. I will just try to find a mesh bag that has larger holes so copepods can move in and out freely.

[Clown79]

I have the 10g IM. You're using their media?

 

Vacuuming the sand every week is beneficial. It is only detrimental with deep sand beds.

 

You'd be surprisingly grossed out if you see what grows in the sand even with vacuuming.

 

 

I would not advise a mandarin.

 

They need large tanks, a lot of pods (more than your rubble can grow), dedicated feedings.

It's an extremely expensive and highly dedicated endeavor to just keep it alive.

They also need a mature tank.

They eat constantly, the pods you have will be gone in days.

 

@burtbollinger knows alot about mandarins.

 

There's also a sticky thread on them.

 

They are gorgeous but belong in the ocean

[1967type1]

I love the media baskets in the back of the IM tanks and if you are still looking for a place to grow macro I am growing cheato in mine right now. I just put a small light over the top of it and its growing like crazy. Would love to see more pictures of the tank I love IM tanks.

[burtbollinger]

10 hours ago, Clown79 said:

I

I would not advise a mandarin.

 

They need large tanks, a lot of pods (more than your rubble can grow), dedicated feedings.

It's an extremely expensive and highly dedicated endeavor to just keep it alive.

They also need a mature tank.

They eat constantly, the pods you have will be gone in days.

 

@burtbollinger knows alot about mandarins.

 

There's also a sticky thread on them.

 

They are gorgeous but belong in the ocean

1

your mandarin idea is very bad.  do not do it.

In adding a mandarain your tank, you no longer have a reef tank....you have a ill-suited mandarin tank....one that will cause stress, financial burden, and frustration.  I'd avoid the temptation at all cost.  IMO, its perhaps the coolest fish in the hobby....but simply not a nano fish. 

 

An LFS may tell you differently, for ongoing financial reasons.

[Dreichler]

I've had 2 mandarins over the past 5 years in a 45g along with a leopard wrasse so you could imagine my pod population...  but I trained all my fish to eat pellets and frozen so they made my life easier and stress free.  If you want to get a mandarin, ask a store employee to show you it's eating something you can throw in the tank whether it be frozen, pellets, flakes, etc.  once they're established they almost take care of themselves if you have a good pod population.  My pod population is through the roof so that's why I can support 3 fish that do nothing but eat pods... all... day... long....

[1967type1]

I have heard people having more luck with tank raised mandarins eating frozen and pellet food but it still can be hit or miss.

[ThorReefer]

7 hours ago, Dreichler said:

I've had 2 mandarins over the past 5 years in a 45g along with a leopard wrasse so you could imagine my pod population...  but I trained all my fish to eat pellets and frozen so they made my life easier and stress free.  If you want to get a mandarin, ask a store employee to show you it's eating something you can throw in the tank whether it be frozen, pellets, flakes, etc.  once they're established they almost take care of themselves if you have a good pod population.  My pod population is through the roof so that's why I can support 3 fish that do nothing but eat pods... all... day... long....

How did you get your pod population “through the roof”? Is there something specific I can do to help the pods to flourish?

[Dreichler]

Always but pods that are either being grown in a LFS small farm, or in a bottle that specifically says LIVE PODS and you can hold the bottle up and you should be able to see them moving a little.  However you get them, buy some live copepods and release them into your tank at night.  Turn off all pumps at night and pour the whole bottle into the tank where there seems to be a lot of rockwork for them to settle on.  Make sure no fish are out so you'll kinda have to do this in the dark.  Drop the pods in and wait like 30 minutes for them to all settle and then turn the pumps back on.  I did that twice a month for 2 months and haven't done it since in 2 years.

[ThorReefer]

Okay so question, I bought a gold torch coral a few weeks ago, and it is still only partially open. Its coloration is just fine, but it just doesn't seem to be getting enough flow with the rotating deflectors that I have in my aquarium. If I were to add a circulation pump what gph should I shoot for? Or should I just increase the strength of my sump pump so that the rotating deflectors will have a little more kick? Just not sure if it is better for the torch to have more random water movement (rotating deflectors) or more directional flow (circulation pump).

[Dreichler]

23 minutes ago, ThorReefer said:

Okay so question, I bought a gold torch coral a few weeks ago, and it is still only partially open. Its coloration is just fine, but it just doesn't seem to be getting enough flow with the rotating deflectors that I have in my aquarium. If I were to add a circulation pump what gph should I shoot for? Or should I just increase the strength of my sump pump so that the rotating deflectors will have a little more kick? Just not sure if it is better for the torch to have more random water movement (rotating deflectors) or more directional flow (circulation pump).

Whether you upgrade the sump pump or buy a powerhead, there will be more flow in the tank.  I would recommend buying a powerhead so you can aim the flow where you want.  Buy a powerhead with some features like a timer, speeds, power levels, type of flow, etc.  The best powerhead you can buy would be from Ecotech.  Their MP10 and bigger sizes are excellent powerheads, but very costly.  Another really good alternative, which I have, is a Jebao powerhead.  It's basically a Chinese version of Ecotechs.  It has several great features and works perfect for a quarter of the price.

[Tamberav]

On 10/5/2017 at 11:33 PM, ThorReefer said:

Thanks for the info! Yeah unfortunately I am curious by nature, and the reason I decided to start an aquarium was actually because I love the science behind it. I love all of the things I have to learn, and all of the different chemicals and whatnot that need to be in balance to make a functional ecosystem.

 

But yeah I am running a three tiered media basket that my overflow runs through before entering my sump. The flow goes through a mechanical, then a carbon, then a phosphate sponge (all sponges). The sponges are very porous and made out of some kind of springy plastic, so they wash out easily. I have been rinsing them out bi-weekly, and it says to replace them monthly. They seem to rinse out pretty completely (as I can see the gunk in them to begin with), but it does seem logical that they would trap a lot of crap, and have plenty of buildup that I can't see.

 

Where do you get the Big Al's from? I can't find it on amazon.com or drsfostersmith.com.

 

But would the rubble in a media bag still allow access for copepods? I imagine it would be sufficient for the bacteria, but the main reason I added it was so copepods could reproduce back there and keep my tank fed with them. A kind of "safe haven" for the copepods to breed.

 

But I have been "dusting" my live rock with a turkey baster a few times a day, but I haven't been vacuuming my sand. I have gotten mixed reviews on this, and some people say it is a must, and others say it destroys a large part of the natural filter in the tank if you vacuum the sand. So I haven't done that yet.

 

The next fish that I am thinking of adding is a Green Mandarin. I have researched this fish a lot, and spoken with several LFS owners, and it seems like it is generally a difficult fish to keep. I just can't get over how cool looking they are, and my aquarium is already plastered with copepods on every surface (so many on the glass it is kind of gross), and that is why I was adding the rubble in the sump is so that would provide the green mandarin with food to graze on. I also am planning on working with the fish to get it taking some frozen food so it won't starve. I talked with my LFS and he agreed that if its belly starts looking empty he will take it back and give me store credit so I can get a different fish and hopefully not kill the green mandarin. I am just hoping I can make it work, and I am always up for a challenge! Any thoughts here? I was planning on adding the green mandarin on the 30th of this month.

 

I like these ideas though! I will be using the rubble in a media bag idea. I will just try to find a mesh bag that has larger holes so copepods can move in and out freely.

Copepods wax and wane, in young tanks they bloom and are everywhere, when the tank is stable, their numbers will also stabilize and die off. So seeing them now doesn't really mean you will have them 6 months from now.

 

They are best in specialized tanks build around them. I kept 6 spawning dragnets in a 20gallon for awhile, my oldest was 4 or 5 years. I don't have them anymore but I kept them with a macroalgae tank with a 20g dedicated refugium and overfed like crazy, more food = more pods.

 

However if a person wants corals, nem's, ect... it becomes much more difficult to keep them. You have to feed the tank or feed them often which causes nutrients which effects the corals. Also fish like clowns learn to steal their food, I would never recommend clowns with a frozen fed mandarin. 

 

If you want a mandarin that bad, personally I would rethink everything you are doing and rehome most of your critters and go in a different direction. I am talking LONG term success here, like 5, 8 yrs ect. 

 

I don't keep them anymore right now because they were a huge amount of work imo.

[Clown79]

Are you sure it's not getting too much flow? Euphyllia tends to close up/not fully expand when the flow is too high.

[ThorReefer]

10 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Are you sure it's not getting too much flow? Euphyllia tends to close up/not fully expand when the flow is too high.

Yeah I am pretty sure. I could send a video, but essentially the tentacles aren't ever really moving. For like 3 seconds they will be lightly jostled as the current passes, but then they resume their position and lack of motion. They are moving probably 3 seconds out of 15.