In tank peroxide for GHA

[Moorahs]

Calling @brandon429, @Clown79, or whoever else the brains trust is on in-tank treatments of algae with peroxide. I'm talking targeted, not broadcast.

 

Have been wading through threads on here, RC and R2R and can't find a definitive call on this...

 

I got all brave and syringed 1ml of 3% peroxide into a hair algae patch (in a 10 gal tank, with the pumps off). Seems to have worked a treat and other than some nearby zoas closing up for maybe 1/2 hour then springing straight back, nothing else seems to have reacted at all. 

 

So just wondering has a rule of thumb been established on how often it's safe to do? And/or how many water changes between, etc etc.

 

TIA

Wow. Note to self, don't cut and paste your posts or the font sizes go haywire. 

[brandon429]

Hi! We have people doing that 1:10 treatment a few times a week no prob 

 

 

but there is an amplifying trick to use which is better than tank dosing anyway, taking out the rock and treating outside the tank on the spot with no dilution, only after that spot has been made algae free using a knife tip or metal scraping tool

 

that kind of targeting, with scraping pre work, simply works better. Dosing to the tank is third best to this method.

[Subsea]

I use a tooth brush and h202.  It works well.  In some cases,, I use a 10% solution of h202 and soak rock for 5-10 minutes, depending on the coral.

[Clown79]

If the rock can be removed then scrubbing it with a toothbrush is safe and then apply h2o2, rinse then replace.

 

My rocks can't be removed so I do spot treatment.

 

I have usually do it before a waterchange. One time I did in between waterchanges.

 

 

[Moorahs]

Yup. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but when I set the tank up my bigger fear was rock collapse so I epoxied the jesus out of the rocks - they're not coming out in a hurry ?...

 

I *am* winning the battle as far as new algae appearing (hindsight again - RO water is not the same as RO/DI, yes it's awesome watching coral eat but you don't need to do so every day), I gave up on Chemipure Blue (I think my phosphates were so high it was exhausting in days) and have switched to separate carbon, purigen and phosguard. The snails are mowing through the bits they can reach but my scape means there's bits they can't. 

 

The algae isn't long enough to grab with tweezers, and while I can sort of get it gently with a toothbrush I'm worried about spreading it though the tank. 

 

Enter the peroxide. The test patch I did literally vanished overnight and the coraline that was on that rock seems to have survived. 

 

It seemed too good to be true, which is why I thought I'd check what counts as too much of a good thing!

 

Thank you all. So deeply grateful for this forum - whether it's reading other people's questions or asking my own, it's been priceless.

 

much love

[brandon429]

thanks for the post its good to see some new use try to take us before and afters if you can, our peroxide threads could use the refresh for sure.

 

There are nice amplifiers even for tanks that cannot be parted out. Take the portion that corresponds to 1:10 for a given system, and apply it still undiluted only to the scraped-clean spot during a tank drain down to whatever level must be reached for the in-air assault. Nanos have it easy, they can always use one or more amplifiers. Dig hard on the pre scrape, toothbrush is ok, but a dentist doesn't use one till the very end for a reason. during one portion of events we are de plaqued so well, a little sangre is expected.

 

when I used to do drain spot treatments, id refill back up, then drain down again, then refill clean to export out some runoff. Very powerful amp that method is for tanks that cannot be parted. use a steak knife for the pre scrape + ideal

 

the first attack isn't with peroxide, its dental mode, then peroxide and the kid glove stuff.

[Moorahs]

Alrighty. Attack plan for next w/c day is drain, treat, refill then water change. I'll try for pics but be warned we are at the mercy of iPhone Blue ...

[Moorahs]

Hey @brandon429 - Not a before and after per se, but just took this pic while my tank lights are off (go home iPhone Blue, you're drunk)...

 

That was my test rock, take my word for it it was as covered with HA as its neighbors. 

 

Why I love this pic is it shows how much non HA life survived the holocaust. 

[Clown79]

I've never drained my tank for spot treatment.

 

I turn off all water movement. 

Manually remove gha  with tweezers  (if it's long enough)

 

I don't scrub it because it will spread in the tank

 

I use h2o2 in a syringe and apply it to the gha 

 

Do my maintenance then waterchange

 

Turn everything back on after 30mins

 

Cha gone the next day, coralline fine, all corals fine.

 

There are many that do this. Some broadcast h2o2 in the tank...i have never broadcast h2o2

[Subsea]

Sometimes when I have removed rock with pest on it, within the crevices and pore spaces are many diverse spores that can not be reached with dentist pick.  In the case of Aptasia, when disturbed they retract far into rock.  In this case, I insert needle and inject hydrogen peroxide, with numerous pods and bristle worms exiting rock.  If I did not pierce the Aptasia membrane, this treatment was to no avail.  

 

I use a toothbrush dipped in hydrogen peroxide both inside and outside the tank.  It is the most effective maintenance tool in my tool box.  When you consider H2O2, it’s oxygen molecule in highly reactive and unstable.  This reactive molecule will oxidize the first thing it comes into contact with.  Meaning, H2O2 becomes H2O.  I have a tank with red planaria.  They digest “flatworm exit” with no ill effect.  Not so with hydrogen peroxide,   A 10 minute bath in 10% solution of hydrogen peroxide with tank water.  No more red planaria, pods, worms, macro algae.  It is plenty lethal.  I have trouble understanding how sussessful reefers can use this in their reef tank bulk water.  It goes to show that different strokes for different folks.  

[brandon429]

even though im fully biased

 

peroxide is the most influential reefing tool ive ever been shown in the history of my aquarium keeping far beyond any hardware arrangement possible. its #1

 

that's not saying one day there wont be something better, but as Subsea stated its mechanism isn't like an antibiotic where resistances build up. Things are either metabolically sensitive to it or they're not, and, what is sensitive is not changing over time in the constant tank posts we monitor for peroxide use. It has a niche for the hobby that will never be filled, although overall water-based treatments are ideal because they rquire no work and the industry will likely end up solving our invasion issues that way eventually. I simply like it because the sensitives are so predictable, that off a single tank pic we can tell if its safe to run

 

I spent most of my time in the peroxide threads trying to elicit surgical type actions, and as we see the majority went with the 1:10 dosed to the tank water, and still wiped out the algea yes Clown79 I believe that worked. it made for a fun dynamic in the threads, regular GHA is highly highly sensitive to peroxide such that in tank treatments are prob fine.

 

It was the meaner bryopsis threads that brought us into the era of rasping and in support of fluconazole, it came about as a powerful water treatment option.

 

I personally don't use 3% peroxide for much, Im on straight 35% or diluted versions of that for the limited times I use it. Right now at lunch break Im buying some new 35%, my LFS changed up their water delivery regimen and Im having a notable outbreak of green micro algae on my glass, w be hard to remove otherwise but with a wet paper towel of 35%/soak for 1 min, it w come off like butter

 

peroxide is like a chainsaw that fits in between molecules we want it to

 

im putting 35% inside a one gallon reef as a drain and treat run, though its strong we have ways to really use it well

[Moorahs]

Pictureless update (sorry @brandon429 ) but update nonetheless - the next water change I did I drained the tank down to below the GHA, spot applied the peroxide with a syringe, then refilled and did the w/c. Still worked like a charm, but TBH i didn’t see enough difference between take 1 and 2 to make me think draining the tank was necessary. 

 

Thanks @Subsea for confirming what I was wondering, which was whether peroxide in a syringe might do a better job than the lemon juice I’ve used so far for aiptasia.

[Subsea]

You are welcome.  When I first used hydrogen peroxide needle injection, it was with big Aptasia.  When h202 is injected thru membrane, it is instantaneous.  Bubbles and ooze, not pretty. For small Aptasia tooth brush with h202 underwater works like a charm.  It oxidizes everything.  With scrubbing action there is nothing left.

[Thrassian Atoll]

Will peroxide have any effect on cyano?

[brandon429]

the threads show only sporadic compliance using it against cyano

 

what doesn't show sporadic compliance on cyano is the sand rinse thread, I claim we can beat it with only tank cleaning and no meds.

 

what it does to items in an aquarium vs a test beaker has been covered extensively

 

we didn't get stat significant cyano cures with it early on, peroxide's most receptive target thankfully is good ole gha

[Thrassian Atoll]

2 minutes ago, brandon429 said:

the threads show only sporadic compliance using it against cyano

 

what doesn't show sporadic compliance on cyano is the sand rinse thread, I claim we can beat it with only tank cleaning and no meds.

I was starting to get a little more each day.  Did lights out for a couple of days to see if it would have any effect.  I didn't do a complete dark out or anything, but it got rid of most of it.  I am sure it will be back though.  That's the only algae I have in my tank at all right now.  Nitrates at 2, phosphates at .02.  

[Subsea]

It will kill it on contact.  I suggest you vacuum it out and use phosphate removal resin, instead.

 

However, Cyanobacteria is unique in its place in the animal kingdoms.  It is a bacteria that is photosynthetic.  Cynobacteria  was responsible for changing earths methane/sulfur atmosphere to oxygen as a major gas.  Cynobacteria live in coral biomas.  Using nitrogen fixation, cynobacteria converte a nitrogen gas molecule into a nitrate molecule.  When coral is deprived of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate,  cynobacteria provide this back up nitrate source.  Imagine, cross talk between coral and  cynobacteria.  Cynobacteria is able to dissolve inorganic phosphate from calcium phosphate and turn it into organic phosphate to be absorbed in cynobacteria biomass.  Randy Holmes Farley describes a feed back loop that cynobacteria use to complete this process.  Imagine that, smart bacteria.

[Thrassian Atoll]

3 minutes ago, Subsea said:

It will kill it on contact.  I suggest you vacuum it out and use phosphate removal resin, instead.

 

However, Cyanobacteria is unique in its place in the animal kingdoms.  It is a bacteria that is photosynthetic.  Cynobacteria  was responsible for changing earths methane/sulfur atmosphere to oxygen as a major gas.  Cynobacteria live in coral biomas.  Using nitrogen fixation, cynobacteria converte a nitrogen gas molecule into a nitrate molecule.  When coral is deprived of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate,  cynobacteria provide this back up nitrate source.  Imagine, cross talk between coral and  cynobacteria.  Cynobacteria is able to dissolve inorganic phosphate from calcium phosphate and turn it into organic phosphate to be absorbed in cynobacteria biomass.  Randy Holmes Farley describes a feed back loop that cynobacteria use to complete this process.  Imagine that, smart bacteria.

 

That is some interesting stuff for sure.