Ammonia creeping and nitrates aswell...

[Scorchx1245]

I have an aquapod 12 gallon, it's been running for 6 weeks approx* i cycled the tank with love rock from my local saltwater fish store/fragging. Added 5 hermits and 5 snails and extra shells at 4 weeks, then at 4.5 / 5 wks I added two common clowns. Fast forward 1 week to week 6.... Today while doing my routine tests and PWC I noticed a dead hermit that has been there some time...i flushed him out with the turkey baster. I quickly removed it tested waters. Unfortunately my nitrite test kit ran out at 3 drops =/ but tested ammonia and got around .25 - .5 ppm and nitrates at 20ish ppm looks between 20 and 40. Nitrite will have to wait till morning.... my filter is the stock sponge with filter floss on top in chamber 1, chamber 2 houses heater and bag of purigen, 3 is live rock rubble and 4 is pump and bag of carbon. I feel confident it cycled 100%. Just don't know if I put to much bioload too quick....on a subnote....o have a fluffy cat that does not bother the fish at all other than sleeping next to them....is the occasional hair gonna bother anything lol. I'm experience in fresh not salt.

[cju84]

That's a pretty large spike.  Possibly due to adding too much too quick.  For now, do a 50% - 100% water change and retest.  If you show any ammonia, do another large water change.

[Scorchx1245]

2 minutes ago, cju84 said:

That's a pretty large spike.  Possibly due to adding too much too quick.  For now, do a 50% - 100% water change and retest.  If you show any ammonia, do another large water change.

I just did roughly a 30 percent due to low on RODI water, amonia down to .25 and nitrate to about 20 ppm a lighter shade now.

[cju84]

1 minute ago, Scorchx1245 said:

I just did roughly a 30 percent due to low on RODI water, amonia down to .25 and nitrate to about 20 ppm a lighter shade now.

You'll want to do another ASAP.  Go buy 6 jugs of distilled water (NOT RO) from your grocery store/target and do another change with that if you can't get to RO/DI today.  With a 12g tank, you probably have 8-9 gallons of actual water in there.

[Scorchx1245]

I'll have the ole lady grab the distilled do it due me going go work till 7 am....hope they'll be ok till then.

[Muraki]

Go purchase a second set of test kits when you go out to get water. I wouldn't panic just yet. Your nitrates I believe to possibly be running high, but reading ammonia is questionable since you cycled with live rock. API test kits aren't always the best or accurate. I use them as a reference only. 

 

This is on the assumption you are relying on an API test kit. I have had several API kits and between them all, they all read differently. So I keep Salifert and API kits. API for reference and Salifert when I question anything. 

[Scorchx1245]

Thank you, I'll look for a second to double check in the am.

[brandon429]

Muraki that's interesting to know about the API. I get that a lot in posts. others seem to be able to control them fully, whats up with Api in your view

 

 

true persistent free ammonia here at .5 would register as fish gill fluttering and stress. agreed a death in the tank can make a spike, so I can't wait to see numbers after the wc's and a couple days.

 

please post pics of the actual readings Scorch and vials/card compares here so we can see drift on readings if any

[Muraki]

23 minutes ago, brandon429 said:

Muraki that's interesting to know about the API. I get that a lot in posts. others seem to be able to control them fully, whats up with Api in your view

 

 

true persistent free ammonia here at .5 would register as fish gill fluttering and stress. agreed a death in the tank can make a spike, so I can't wait to see numbers after the wc's and a couple days.

 

please post pics of the actual readings and vials here so we can see drift on readings if any

Brandon, i'll answer your question in much detail as I can remember as it has been a couple months since I did my comparison. I know you have more experience than I do in regards to test kits and cycling, and I have ready many of your posts and topics for my own educational benefit. 

 

As for the API, I have noticed varied readings between the Ammonia, Nitrate, Calcium, and KH tests. More variance between the Calcium and KH then the other two. 

Between 4 API test kits, 2 of my own, than 2 others at different fish stores, all using the same sample source of water within 1 hour. I didn't take accurate recordings and this is a very small sample I did one day just for my observation. The numbers did not go up or down according to the time of the test. The two kits I had I did at the exact same time and had a slight variance, as for the fish store tests, there was more time in between of 30-60 minutes of the water being removed from the tank.

 

Ammonia range from 0-.25-.5 ppm <- I have an established Softy and Macro tank, with a few LPS and a couple sps. I shouldn't have ammonia on a 2 year old tank with a refugium the size of my display. 2 of the 4 tests read 0 ammonia.

Nitrates range from 0-5ppm   3 of the 4 tests read 0 Nitrate

KH range from 8-12  Basically go up the board. Never got the same number.

Calcium range from 380-480 ppm Never got the same number between kits

 

Because of this, I just go off of a single API kit, and do what everyone suggests. Pick a range and stay in it. : ) I'll pull out other test kits whenever I want to get more details and compare. Or whenever I purchase a new test kit to switch over. 

[Scorchx1245]

So before i do the change i wanted to post these.....and its very contradicting....the new kit pictures way to high ammonia and the old kit registers 0? I'm so confused I'm gonna bring a sample in for them to test today. But I'm doing the water change, nitrates remain the same.

[Scorchx1245]

https://ibb.co/iK0BG5 Ammonia picture here. And I'll post a video Video of fish behavior.

[Scorchx1245]

Update after water change nitrates down to 5.0 ammonia at what I believe at 0.25.....going to retest on the morning, could the sponge on chamber 1 be a nuisance? Nitrite test kit sold out at petco and LFS is closed for plumbing overhaul....

[Muraki]

I vote to keep up with your normal routine. The fish appear to be acting normal. The sponge could have some build up that can be raising the nitrates, depends on how much food waste is building up in it. I don't know of anyone that runs a sponge in their chambers, normally advised to remove them and run filter floss that can be tossed and replaced as it gets dirty. I have a gut feeling that your ammonia is actually 0 if not right by 0. Just postpone anymore livestock as a precaution and ensure your biological filter has time to catch up if it is slightly behind. Also, I have never seen 2 ammonia tests vary to that extent. I would definitely use both kits at the same time once more and see if this is a repeated occurrence. 

Note: I only make suggestions as to what I would do myself. Please ensure you take in many forms of guidance and make your own judgement call. There are many right and wrong ways to do things. 

[brandon429]

nice

 

it will also help to know that nitrite testing is not required in reefing. too long to post why but is on google, and it can help here since we are dealing with unverified testing that's one less param to deal with. nitrite does not matter, the ammonia that comes before is what we manage.

 

the chances of you having a system that can oxidize all the waste from those fishes and leave only a tail-end unoxidized, reading .25 which is the subject of no less than five thousand google search returns on API issues, is .5% even though your tank is new

 

that live rock is live, look at the coralline and coloration. the bacteria it had initially is the same amnts it w have in ten months.

 

what makes this a great analysis thread is the early tank; that helps to jump on the ammonia bandwagon for sure

 

what goes against it is that this bioload isn't measuring .5 or .25 in total each 24 hours

 

its several times that, and if the tests are right, then supposedly the system can only process 90% of the bioload but not the remaining .25 day after day

 

also the initial death spike was likely valid...but now that its removed, no more ammonia. can't wait to see how this pans out

[Tamberav]

The sponge and rock rubble are old practices and not used now-a-days. I would remove them slowly over a week or so, they will cause issues with Nitrates.

 

People here already have your ammonia covered.

[Clown79]

Any rubble in the back chamber will make it very difficult to clean back there. 

 

Back Chambers should be scrubbed and siphoned regularly as a lot of crp builds up back there.

 

I would definitely ditch using a sponge. Filter floss is beneficial and changing it twice a week will help reduce your nutrients. 

 

 

[Scorchx1245]

Thank you guys so much will update .

 

[Scorchx1245]

3 hours ago, Clown79 said:

Any rubble in the back chamber will make it very difficult to clean back there. 

 

Back Chambers should be scrubbed and siphoned regularly as a lot of crp builds up back there.

 

I would definitely ditch using a sponge. Filter floss is beneficial and changing it twice a week will help reduce your nutrients. 

 

 

So I want to replace the sponge I have a media rack that I want to run but it broke apart cheap Amazon one....and returned to the sponge, I siphon the back chambers out and clean sponge weekly. I blast the rubble with a turkey baster and siphon them. Do I cut away atvtge sponge or do I just take the whole thing out?

[Tamberav]

The rubble and sponge just do the same thing your live-rock does except it traps debris, even small particles you can not see/get to. Remove the sponge then wait a few days and slowly remove the rubble. If the sponge is large, cut it away is fine.

 

I used to have an aquapod and i made a media rack out of egg crate (called light defuser at a hardware store) and used the middle chamber for cheato (scrapped the black off the back and put a light shining in). Worked well.

[Clown79]

How big is the sponge?

[Scorchx1245]

Sponge is probably 8 - 10" × 4" × 4". Also what kind a light, a led work that replicated sunlight? 

[Clown79]

I'd cut the sponge and slowly remove it

[Scorchx1245]

Retested ammonia and nitrates this morning, got .25 for ammonia and 5.0ppm for nitrates. SG AT 1.024. The other test was way off again 2.0 for ammonia......so I think I do have an issue but not as major as it sounds, the LFS retested my water and basically got the same thing I cant remember nitrites but it was real low. They said it I continue to have problems they would gladly put them in they're frag/display tank and hold them till i get my water parameters set, they said I should be fine and keep testing with PWC's. And in an emergency they gave me a bottle of Prime to hold out toll i can drop them, thought it was pretty nice of them......also during my water change siphoning out the back chambers and trimming my sponge a pile of very fine sand or debris came out of one of the chambers and completely cloud my tank....first time I've seen this in all my cleaning / water changes. Image here.

[brandon429]

in this specific case

 

.25 means zero, for sure. they will not need to hold anything, a simple full water change would fix any issues, were they not already zero and now part of the classic .25 search returns.

 

There is no biological mechanism that allows a live rock system to degrade all but .25 of  a given bioload well past 24 hours after the initial insult was discovered, and removed. yours is going on days, this is classic API headache. google shows how many times this occurs and will keep happening.

 

 I noticed earlier some nitrate readings were posted where we were discussing ammonia

 

can you post only the ammonia readings as updates, the two conflicting API ammonia tests side by side with just an ammonia reference card

 

nitrate and nitrite do not help in cycling, they cause confusion. only ammonia oxidation matters in cycling, the other two are directly universally tied and not possible to be untied to what ammonia does within a given 24 hour set. what nitrate measures does not impact a cycle, there are biological reasons it can be zero or X number tank to tank, only ammonia matters and that narrows down the scope of test misleading

 

when dealing with API, a sustained .25 means zero. A peak of .25 and then a lucky true zero reading is different set of events. Those are the good API tests, where any 3 side by side show the same results.

[Scorchx1245]

Alright thank you.