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kinetic Red Sea Reefer 170


kinetic

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5 hours ago, jesseatam said:

My pygmy hawk actually bullied the dottyback! And ooo exciting, keep us updated.

Oh sorry, i totally misread your post! It was the other way around hah! Well, I guess I'd have to be worried either way =) The pygmy hawk is pretty bold with my clowns. He seems to actually enjoy their company, and in the evening he perches as close as possible to them. The clowns check him out but just ignore him. It's a fun interaction.

 

Update on the orchid dottybacks and sailfin:

 

So I got the new orchid today. He's about .25" smaller than the one I already had. I put him in and the two immediately started swimming right next to each other like they were long lost friends. Kind of awesome. But... the larger one after a few hours chases the smaller one around a bit. Not really biting or anything, just dashes and stops. So maybe they're just going to work it out. They both swim out in the open and really don't care about anything now, they're so preoccupied with each other. The larger one started eating pellets today. Small newbie is still a bit freaked out I think, but is really bold and doesn't hide ever. Hoping they start getting long well enough and will be good to go in the DT in two weeks.

 

Sailfin is so small and pretty docile. or maybe he's just not doing too well. He perches on things, and I tried to catch him with my net to put him in an isolation box in the QT so he's easier to observe and manage. He just perched on the edge of the net, so I just scooped him up in the palm of my hand haha. He was totally OK with it. Now he's in the small isolation box and turned most of his body into dark black splotches (as expected I guess). His breathing seems normal, but to be honest I can barely see his little face, so it's hard to tell. He's small. Not even an inch. I keep describing him as a dot, or like a comma. That's how he looks. I think the geometric hawk can eat him. Yikes.

 

All 3 fish in the QT aren't showing any signs of Ich, Flukes, Brook, etc. I've already dosed Prazipro yesterday, so it should last in the water until tomorrow. I'll wait until this coming Thursday to do a big water change and do one more dose of it. On Monday I get a shipment in with Seachem Focus and I'll use that to bind Metroplex to pellets to feed them. This should cure any weird stuff they might be carrying from LiveAquaria just in case. Two week QT!

 

I'm still on the fence about doing a full TTM to be sure they're without Ich. I've already introduced snails and that Geometric pygmy without a TTM, so chances are I already have Ich in the system. So doing a TTM on these three fish will be futile. At some point if they all get stressed out and I have an Ich outbreak, I'll have to do a TTM and run fallow for 75+ days anyway, so I might as put that off until it happens. I think that would be a good point to upgrade to a Red Sea Reefer peninsula 500?!?! ;)

 

I don't think I can really take a photo of the fish in the QT since I don't have a light for it.

 

Update on the rest of the tank:

I added my first SPS, an ORA pearlberry. I've had one in the past, and I hope this one will grow well. I also got a Hawkins Enchinata, but because of black friday deliveries, the box was held up and the Enchinata came in bad shape. Most of the tissue just melted off and it broke into 5 pieces. I glued it all together, but looks like it's about dead. Gotta talk to LiveAquaria about that. This will be my 5th attempted (and failed) Hawkins try. It's like my unicorn SPS. But for real, my magnifica will probably one day wipe these all out with one sweep... probably better start thinking about that big peninsula tank...

 

I'm now down to three clowns. Yeah I know. I think I mentioned it before, but the group just didn't work out after the magnifica removed the main bonded pair from the little ones. Once the bonded pair no longer asserted dominance all the time, the males started fighting, and there would always be one aggressor. I kept thinking if I removed the aggressor (give him away) then the rest would be happy, but the aggressor position was always retaken, and the aggression got worse with the fewer number of clowns. Three works though. The last little male just does his own thing, and the bonded pair just keep him out of their magnifica. I do see him sneak in at night sometimes though. I think I'm happy with these three clowns. With the dottybacks to add a splash of color and movement, and if this little sailfin blenny makes it, I think my fish stock will be complete. 

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That sucks about the clowns not working out. Do you think you could have done anything to make it work? I actually still don't have water in my tank but I am shooting for the group working if possible. My thought was I already have the dominant female so the strategy is to get a bunch of BTAs in, then the clown group and the female all at once.

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Yay the dottybacks sound promising so far, if all works out with yours I think I'll try the same in my tank. Also I wouldn't trust the pygmy hawk with the little blenny until it's bigger, their mouths are huge plus they just have that shifty look :lol: Sucks about the enchinata and the clowns though, at least they seem to have achieved some kind of balance between the three though.

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3 hours ago, Halo_003 said:

That sucks about the clowns not working out. Do you think you could have done anything to make it work? I actually still don't have water in my tank but I am shooting for the group working if possible. My thought was I already have the dominant female so the strategy is to get a bunch of BTAs in, then the clown group and the female all at once.

A few things that I think could have worked:

  1. Get the magnifica established well before the clowns arrived. This is because I think the clowns would have all been allowed into the anemone before they settled down into their hierarchy. My hypothesis is that the whole tank was their "host" and the large bonded pair were able to keep the aggression out since they were easily established as the dominant pair. Once the pair kicked everyone out, the little ones were now fighting for dominance in the tank, since the pair were more or less out of the picture.
  2. Not remove the most dominant small male. He wasn't really that aggressive at all, I just thought removing him would allow the other clowns to go into the BTAs (he took over the 2 BTAs and kicked all the rest out, so it was bonded pair in magnifica, most aggressive small male in BTAs). That group was fine, I was just hoping for something that wouldn't have worked.

I would highly recommend not getting any clowns until you had some anemones. And even then, if the female hosts the anemone, that's her territory, and the rest is a free for all. Get as many clowns as you can possibly house in your tank. I noticed that the fewer I had, the worse the aggression. Of course, if you have a bonded pair that are clearly larger than the rest by a lot, then you'll be fine as long as they all stay in the same territory. It's just bad when the dominant ones have to assert themselves because they aren't clearly large enough.

 

What I would try next:

Get a group of 8-10 more clowns, all small juveniles, from the exact same clutch, and introduce them to the tank. I don't think the pair I have will care at all, and my current fancy white extreme would probably dominate the new group with very little aggression.

 

What others have told me elsewhere:

  1. Small groups can work, but you need clear dominant clown(s) that don't fight with each other. Clearly dominant means at least .5" or more in size difference.
  2. You need 20+ clowns for it to work

I definitely think you should go for it, but be ready to take action. Get breeder boxes so you can isolate some and see what happens, and also just in case one is getting way too beat up. Also make sure you have a lot of friends nearby who will gladly take your clowns that aren't fitting. Don't remove an aggressor. That just means the next clown up will take his place, and it just gets worse. If the aggression is just too much, then it's a failure. Too much is defined as one is actually killing the others by biting, or completely suppressing them from eating.

 

Hope that helps!

 

3 hours ago, jesseatam said:

Yay the dottybacks sound promising so far, if all works out with yours I think I'll try the same in my tank. Also I wouldn't trust the pygmy hawk with the little blenny until it's bigger, their mouths are huge plus they just have that shifty look :lol: Sucks about the enchinata and the clowns though, at least they seem to have achieved some kind of balance between the three though.

Thanks!! The dottybacks are getting along fine today. They mostly ignore each other and don't chase anymore. They're both out and about all the time, instead of hiding. Tomorrow I'll get the Seachem Focus and start binding Metroplex to their pellets.

 

I put in an algae wafer and nori on a rock in the breeder box with the Sailfin. He is now sitting as far away from both those things as possible. I'm worried he's going to starve. Day 3 without eating.

 

I have a rock rubble in the display tank that I'm trying to grow algae on, but that might not be enough soon enough. I'm considering just putting the sailfin into the display if he doesn't eat in the next couple days. If anything, the hawkfish is going to have quite a nice meal =( 

 

I'm not sure if garlic will help an algae eater, but I have some coming tomorrow from Amazon that i'll try soaking the nori and algae wafer in to try again.

 

I'm going to try to take some photos of these dudes in a sec ;)

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I hate to be *THAT* guy that keeps live updating, but the sailfin blenny started perching on top of the algae wafer and I've been watching him chomp on it sporadically. It's to the point where the wafer broke into three pieces and he's still chomping once in awhile. I'll probably have to remove it before it breaks down in a few hours, but at least he's chomping something! whew.

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good to hear!  i've had success with Selcon soaked nori pieces for picky herbivores.  i just cut the nori up into really small pieces, soak in a couple drops of Selcon, and feed a couple pieces at a time with the pumps off.

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Thanks for all of the advice! I'm thinking of getting a big batch of like 12 and just skimming heavily to compensate for it. I think you should try it again if you feel up for it! It is extremely cool looking.

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17 hours ago, Halo_003 said:

Thanks for all of the advice! I'm thinking of getting a big batch of like 12 and just skimming heavily to compensate for it. I think you should try it again if you feel up for it! It is extremely cool looking.

Yeah, I think you'll be great! Just stock up on those breeder boxes (they're cheap on amazon) just in case. 

 

19 hours ago, gone_PHiSHin said:

good to hear!  i've had success with Selcon soaked nori pieces for picky herbivores.  i just cut the nori up into really small pieces, soak in a couple drops of Selcon, and feed a couple pieces at a time with the pumps off.

Good to know! I'll try that next time.

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Orchids update:

They don't seem to venture around the tank as much, but they do come out and eat when I feed. They eat quite a bit. Mostly pellets, and sometimes flakes. While eating, the larger will chase a tiny bit, but not more than once or twice. They both look healthy.

 

Sailfin Blenny:

Looks so small, not really fat. I'm pretty sure he chomps down on a daily bit of algae wafer. His head seems kind of pink, body is a dull yellow. He changes colors to a spotty black in the evenings. I don't think he loves the little breeder box he's in.

 

QT status:

Tomorrow will be day 5 since I medicated with Prazipro. According to instructions, it will be time to dose again tomorrow. I don't see any signs of illness, so I'll just use prazipro again and if all looks good by Friday, (3 more days), I'll intro to the DT.

 

I decided to skip on metroplex + seachem focus + seachem garlicguard because I couldn't figure out how to dose the right amount for the few pellets I would feed them. Instead of risking overdose, I'll just not do it since they don't show any signs of disease.

 

Geometric Pygmy:

Hasn't eaten any mysis for 3 days now. Still looks fat. He used to take mysis right out of my hand. Not sure what happened. It'll float and hit him in the face and he won't budge. He still perches out, looks well fed, no signs of illness. Maybe he's eating pods or something? I did notice an empty hermit shell...

 

Chaeto:

I realized all my chaeto have melted away into green soup. No3 is undetectable, and po4 is about 10ppb. I'm thinking lack of no3 is the problem. It was doing well, but now not so much. I haven't been feeding much into the tank since I reduced my clowns down to 3. I'm considering pulling out my marinepure plate to see if that'll help no3 come back up. I'm also starting to dose two drops of Aquaforest Iron every day to see if that might help.

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The pygmy will find food. Mine is 100% nocturnal now and looks larger each time I see him. One of my favorite fish! 

 

As for the Chaeto I would just say you tank is just super new. You started with all dry rock, no real seeding, etc. Give the tank some time to mature. ;) 

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3 hours ago, DaveFason said:

The pygmy will find food. Mine is 100% nocturnal now and looks larger each time I see him. One of my favorite fish! 

 

As for the Chaeto I would just say you tank is just super new. You started with all dry rock, no real seeding, etc. Give the tank some time to mature. ;) 

I'm thinking the pygmy knows he's going to be able to eat the new sailfin when it comes into the DT =X

 

To be honest, I don't believe in "maturity" as a blanket statement of tanks. I know what you mean though. In this case, I think maturity would just mean that my tank is doing well, there's no build up of nutrients that will create a high level of no3. I'd like to keep it that way. I think there's plenty of pods (I see thousands every night), algae, bacteria, and all other sorts of critters. Having bad chaeto is probably a good problem to have. The amount of film algae in my tank really isn't too bad. I have no coralline (TBH I'm not a fan), but that just means the green algae is on the rock (TBH, also not a fan). I may remedy with more CUC.

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17 hours ago, kinetic said:

I'm thinking the pygmy knows he's going to be able to eat the new sailfin when it comes into the DT =X

 

To be honest, I don't believe in "maturity" as a blanket statement of tanks. I know what you mean though. In this case, I think maturity would just mean that my tank is doing well, there's no build up of nutrients that will create a high level of no3. I'd like to keep it that way. I think there's plenty of pods (I see thousands every night), algae, bacteria, and all other sorts of critters. Having bad chaeto is probably a good problem to have. The amount of film algae in my tank really isn't too bad. I have no coralline (TBH I'm not a fan), but that just means the green algae is on the rock (TBH, also not a fan). I may remedy with more CUC.

100% agree with the statement being a blanket statement with many people but there is some value to it. I do believe that dry rock or what I like to say a sterile starts can take longer to "mature". Micro cycles, bacteria establishment, etc. I run my nitrates pretty high without algae breakouts now  but with a lower phosphate level. 

 

Now go buy that RS Peninsula ;)

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Fish are out of the QT and in isolation boxes in the DT.

 

I did a quick 30 minute drip acclimation just in case for each individual fish. Here are the orchids in the isolation box:

 

38189152964_0686559ca1_b.jpg

 

38189148724_6a669c9516_b.jpg

 

All the bits are falling off of the marinepure ceramic bio spheres. That's all I had, so I piled a few into the box with them. These ceramic things are so flimsy.

 

I still can't get a good photo of the little sailfin. He's now perched right under a piece of nori. Hope he chomps on that a bit. Still wary about him going into the tank with the Geometric hawkfish. I wonder how long I can keep him in isolation and just feed him until he's much bigger...

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Since you are enjoying your dottybacks you might enjoy the book “Breeding the Orchid Dottyback, an Aquarist’s Journal,” by Martin Moe.  A real classic by one of the early pioneers in the captive breeding of marine organisms.  The book is his journal documenting his many failures and ultimate great success.  The book is still available at Amazon.  I read it several times when beginning to breed fishes. Has an honored place on my bookshelf.  The book is so detailed my 15 year old nephew was successful in breeding them.

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16 hours ago, OldManSea said:

Since you are enjoying your dottybacks you might enjoy the book “Breeding the Orchid Dottyback, an Aquarist’s Journal,” by Martin Moe.  A real classic by one of the early pioneers in the captive breeding of marine organisms.  The book is his journal documenting his many failures and ultimate great success.  The book is still available at Amazon.  I read it several times when beginning to breed fishes. Has an honored place on my bookshelf.  The book is so detailed my 15 year old nephew was successful in breeding them.

Wow that's really awesome. I probably won't have the time/resources to breed them, but maybe in the future. The book would probably be a good read anyhow. Thank you.

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2 hours ago, kinetic said:

Wow that's really awesome. I probably won't have the time/resources to breed them, but maybe in the future. The book would probably be a good read anyhow. Thank you.

It is very helpful.  It helped become successful with dottybacks and clownfish.  One day I would like to try my hand at others.  Maybe when I retire....

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22 minutes ago, OldManSea said:

It is very helpful.  It helped become successful with dottybacks and clownfish.  One day I would like to try my hand at others.  Maybe when I retire....

Does the book go into breeding Clowns too? I'm thinking about giving it a shot and want to read up more about it. 

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6 hours ago, RustyRocket said:

Does the book go into breeding Clowns too? I'm thinking about giving it a shot and want to read up more about it. 

No, Moe doesn’t talk about clownfishes much in this book (although he was one of the first commercial breeders of clowns in the 1980s).  However, the setup and fry care and food are very similar.  A great book is Joyce Wilkerson’s “Clownfish” which has detailed instructions for breeding.  There are now so many clownfish breeders that the methodology has been greatly simplified and there are excellent internet sites with detailed instructions.

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  • 3 weeks later...
A few updates:
  • Orchid dottybacks now have separate established burrows, but like to swim around together quite a bit. They seem to really like swimming next to snails for some reason. Anyone else notice this? Especially my big turbos.
  • My magnifica decided to walk around quite a bit recently. On Sunday it did a full walk around on the top of the pedestal, getting really close to my Gyre intake. I was worried (though the gyre has a mesh guard on it). Yesterday night, it fully got off the pedestal and walked down to where the BTA's are. Early morning it got back on the pedestal. Around lunch it came down to the front of the rockwork. And finally late afternoon it's back on the pedestal and has stayed there since. It inflated bigger than I've ever seen it. Probably 10" across (normally 6-7"). I'm not sure exactly what's going on. I didn't change the flow or lighting for awhile now. I don't really feed it, but I tried anyway to make sure it was OK, and it ate right away and has a tight mouth and is well inflated. I guess she just wanted a look around. Nothing died in her wake, so we're good. I hope she still likes the pedestal.
  • I've been feeding APBreed TDO Chroma Boost to the fish with the Neptune AFS for two weeks now. The fancy white extreme clownfish is a lot redder now, and the orange parts of the mocha davincis are really intense as well. They're all looking healthy. I think I'll continue feeding. I noticed the orchid dottybacks look a bit pinker than purple now (but that might just be my imagination). But the clowns are absolutely redder.
  • Sailfin blenny is still alive. I haven't seen him eat or chomp on anything. He's still small. I'm thinking of letting him out of the isolation box into the rest of the DT. I'm not sure he'll survive. He'll most likely get eaten by the Pygmy Hawkfish. I wonder if anyone has a pico/nano tank that'll take him nearby. Also, my tank doesn't have much algae these days. Might not survive if he won't eat any prepared foods.
  • Phosphates are still around, but low (7ppb). Nitrates aren't detectable. My chaeto has all melted away, and my nice DIY reactor is empty. I tried dosing iron, but nothing happened. I'm pretty sure my chaeto didn't make it because there's not enough nitrate. Overall, there's very little nuisance algae (just some film on the glass that I clean every 2 days), and there's no nitrates to speak of. So I guess I'll just leave things be. I was thinking of pulling my marinepure plate, but I'm scared that'll throw off the balance of everything else in my tank. It's a bit too much of a UNLS now. Not sure what to do next. Just leave it?
  • I've been hand dosing daily about 24mm of Alk/Ca using Aquaforest's Components. Mg has always been high, so I've been leaving that out. I'm keeping Alk at about 7.5-8.5dKH. I bought an Apex DOS that I need to pickup from a local reefer to help dose throughout the day instead of spiking it every night. I'll use that to dose the Alk/CA daily. I might pickup a BRS dosing pump and run it on a timer to dose some nitrates.
  • It's been cold. My 125watt heater isn't keeping up, and I have to run my house heater up to 66* so that my tank can keep up the heat when I'm away from home. I'm probably going to add another heater somehow (need to free up an outlet on the Neptune EB4).
Now for the photos:
 
Need to hide the plugs somehow. My Icecap Gyre batt backup is sticking out, boo:
 
38518529525_7b2416ed1d_c.jpg
 
The little isolation box on the top left is where the sailfin blenny lives for now. It's covered in algae. Check out how red my fancy white ext. is now after TDO Chromaboost.
 
39366319162_fb2ffea035_c.jpg
 
The Rainbow BTA is getting bigger?
 
38688394454_fececa8021_c.jpg
 
Mocha Davinci clowns are still drunk/high off of this mag:
 
39396438471_6b73e6dd35_c.jpg
 
39366327352_355b1c77ec_c.jpg
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That rainbow does look bigger to me! Great updates btw. 

 

I may have missed this but where do you usually get your livestock from? Locally or online? 

 

I ask because I'm looking to add some fish soon and I'm wondering if there is a Bay area store you would recommend. I'm up near Sonoma but I frequently head down to both airports.

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11 hours ago, Justind823 said:

That rainbow does look bigger to me! Great updates btw. 

 

I may have missed this but where do you usually get your livestock from? Locally or online? 

 

I ask because I'm looking to add some fish soon and I'm wondering if there is a Bay area store you would recommend. I'm up near Sonoma but I frequently head down to both airports.

I usually buy online, but a few small frags are from local reefers (Bay Area Reefers Club). My clowns are from Sustainable Aquatics, Dottybacks are from LiveAquaria's Diver's Den, the Geometric Pygmy Hawkfish is actually from Aquatic Collection (great store for fish) in Hayward.

 

My green w/ purple tip BTA is from a collector on the east coast. My Rainbow is from a good eBay Store. The Magnifica is actually from a guy named Gig'em on other forums. He brings in Magnificas, treats them to health with Cipro, and then ships them out once they're established and healthy. Magnificas after their correctly treated after import are very hardy.

 

My trochus and cerith snails are ORA and purchased through AlgaeBarn. Expensive, but 100% survival rate even after 4 months. The Turbo snails, fighting conches, and the 4 hermits are from LiveAquaria. Nassarius snails are from Aquatic Collection.

 

Anyway, I'd highly suggest Aquatic Collection for fish and some inverts. They'll have a few basic corals, nothing too fancy (though once in awhile they'll get something nice). The corals are all really good and healthy though. They'll also bring in some nice anemones (saw a huge red carpet recently). The people who run Aquatic Collection are incredible people.

 

Another LFS I'd suggest is Neptune Aquatics. They have a ton of frags and dry goods. Otherwise, I've always liked purchasing from LiveAquaria and cool reefers around the country. I probably wouldn't get any online orders right now, the weather is pretty cold everywhere.

 

In summary:

LiveAquaria

AlgaeBarn

eBay Stores (good ones)

Other reefers in the area and around the country

 

5 hours ago, madtrax said:

Really beautiful tank. I am impressed that the Magnifica is being so docile and stay up there on its pedestal all the time.  

Magnificas want to be really high, they don't normally go downwards, only up, and they like flat smooth rock surfaces. I think the perch is pretty ideal, so hoping he'll stay up there. I had mentioned he did wander around a bit recently, but ended right back on the pedestal.

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10 hours ago, kinetic said:

I usually buy online, but a few small frags are from local reefers (Bay Area Reefers Club). My clowns are from Sustainable Aquatics, Dottybacks are from LiveAquaria's Diver's Den, the Geometric Pygmy Hawkfish is actually from Aquatic Collection (great store for fish) in Hayward.

 

My green w/ purple tip BTA is from a collector on the east coast. My Rainbow is from a good eBay Store. The Magnifica is actually from a guy named Gig'em on other forums. He brings in Magnificas, treats them to health with Cipro, and then ships them out once they're established and healthy. Magnificas after their correctly treated after import are very hardy.

 

My trochus and cerith snails are ORA and purchased through AlgaeBarn. Expensive, but 100% survival rate even after 4 months. The Turbo snails, fighting conches, and the 4 hermits are from LiveAquaria. Nassarius snails are from Aquatic Collection.

 

Anyway, I'd highly suggest Aquatic Collection for fish and some inverts. They'll have a few basic corals, nothing too fancy (though once in awhile they'll get something nice). The corals are all really good and healthy though. They'll also bring in some nice anemones (saw a huge red carpet recently). The people who run Aquatic Collection are incredible people.

 

Another LFS I'd suggest is Neptune Aquatics. They have a ton of frags and dry goods. Otherwise, I've always liked purchasing from LiveAquaria and cool reefers around the country. I probably wouldn't get any online orders right now, the weather is pretty cold everywhere.

 

In summary:

LiveAquaria

AlgaeBarn

eBay Stores (good ones)

Other reefers in the area and around the country

I've been to Aquatic Collection and was really impressed with the store. You're right, the fish there all seem very healthy. 

 

I'll have to check out Neptune one of these days. It's pretty far for me but I'm sure something will bring me down there eventually!

 

Yea, I usually end up buying from LiveAquaria but i's always nice to buy locally, if it makes sense of course. I did just make a purchase from LA but it's all shipping from the CA facility so I'm not too concerned with the cold.

 

That's interesting to hear about the guy you got the Mag from! Neat little niche he has there. 

 

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