Reefer in Distress, Cycle

[brianinak]

Feeling stressed!!!!

 

So started Red Sea Reef Mature Pro program this week

 

Red Sea Reefer 170

43g system

25ish lbs reef saver rock

1 to 1.5 inch sand bed Ocean Direct

Bubble magus Curve five

 

Salinity 1.025

 

So following the program strictly

Estimated 37g of water in system for measuring the supplements (and made math simple)

 

Two test day so far

 

                       Day 2 (of program)                                         Day 3                                                                           Day 4

                      added sumpliments as directed                added supliment and tested                                       added supplements as added

                                                                                              Ammonia .02, book said should be 1.0                    Ammonia 0.02

                                                                                              Nitrite   0 book said should be 0.1                             Nitrite 0 still

                                                                                              Nitrate 15 book said should be 15 (YEAH)               Nirtrate 15 still

 

I know will take longer b/c of dry rocks, but am worried and frustrated.  Other's have had issues with Red Sea Reef mature with dry rocks, said was on week 6 and had not cycled yet.  I am afraid I am going down same road. 

 

Any thoughts, concerns, advice, reassurances would be greatly welcomed!

 

 

[MockandRoll]

You are fine. Since you have nitrate the bacteria are colonizing.  Patience Patience Patience.   

[taj0930]

I cant offer you the advice on the Red Sea program.

However, Ive always had the best luck with adding simple ammonia / a supermarket shrimp, elevating the temperature a tad, lots & lots of aeration/water movement - oxygenated warmer water helps in my experience.

Last time I tried to cycle rock ahead of build in a bucket along with some bio media, added the ace hardware ammonia (janitor non scented - tons of websites online tell you which to use), never budged,

so I moved the rock to an old fish tank where the surface area was greater in hopes of further speeding up the process, then added some fish food to further "dirty" up the water as I was told that helps sometimes to add some other things besides ammonia....nothing

It wasnt until I added the smallest, and I mean like the size of a button of cycled rock from a local trusted store (previous real reef rock) that it started to move slightly.  Then it stalled...i waited...waited more....gave up, added bio spira & bam cycle complete, and current tank in my living room today just added a new fish this weekend actually.

 

I think the combination of actual living rock bacteria, and that little bit of bio spira at the end is what took it home

[brianinak]

7 minutes ago, MockandRoll said:

You are fine. Since you have nitrate the bacteria are colonizing.  Patience Patience Patience.   

OK, relax, relax, relax

patience, patience, patience, deep breath, deep breath, deep breath, cocktail, cocktail, cocktail,

 

And one more cocktail!

 

Feeling better

[MockandRoll]

4 minutes ago, brianinak said:

OK, relax, relax, relax

patience, patience, patience, deep breath, deep breath, deep breath, cocktail, cocktail, cocktail,

 

And one more cocktail!

 

Feeling better

It is the hardest part of the hobby sometimes.  

[Clown79]

Cycling requires patience and time almost stands still.

 

that kit requires a lot of patience.

Seems like most have issues with it. So you aren't alone.

 

It's easier to cycle dry rock with ammonia dosing and bacteria like Dr Tim's. It's a  tried and true method same with liverock cycling

[Dougefresh35]

My tank is in cycle right now too I am doing Dr. Tims fishless cycle with ammonia chloride you want to bring the ammonia level up to 2.0 and then back to 0 in a 24hr period once that happens its pretty much over. I am 2weeks in and still havent gotten it down to 0 in a 24hr period yet I am close but it looks like another week maybe 2 for me so you have to be patient. Also do not turn your lights on while your in cycle. 

[brandon429]

brian

one heck of a stress relieving way to see your cycle is the only way you will not cycle within 40 days is if you add an antibiotic medication which you wont do

 

that means no matter what you do, what you switch to, if you change water, if you don't change water it will be ready by day 40, 50 if you want to be generous

 

that means no matter what your tests say, ever 

that means you don't have to test to cycle a reef tank. amazing concept, you can do it off number of days submerged and factoring in known boosts. yours w be ready before 40, but that's universal w cheats in any arrangement, so use that as a base completion date unless your ammonia testing shows otherwise long about week 3

 

day 40

 

headache reliever for all cycles. all the testing and meticulous dosing is for trying to beat a 40 day window, if  you are in no rush then any form of bacteria you add, and any form of ammonia along the way will make it work fine. you just change out all the water at the end of 40 days and begin reefing lightly with corals and clean up crews. wait to add fish the requisite quarantine time they require, that's another two mos before fish.

 

also, of all your params, only ammonia matters. Your cycle is solely based off number of days underwater and ammonia performance and absolutely not nitrite or nitrate readings. its not that those parameters don't change in a cycle; its that they are requisitely linked to what ammonia does, and number of days underwater, and you don't need to confirm something every single cycle chart online shows.

 

there's not one cycle chart where nitrite doesn't comply by day 40, a key detail in why that date keeps popping up.

there's not one cycle chart online where nitrite suddenly rises after day thirty, though API testers report that occurrence always in their cycling posts. We eliminate nitrite and nitrate testing to avoid false positives, you'll have hard enough time getting the ammonia accurate.

 

when you have reached the ammonia performance required and the bare minimum 30 days considering your substrate types, just do a massive water change and refill, it will be ready for a normal start. Don't input fish you haven't quarantined, ever, no matter the temptation.

 

 

[brianinak]

13 hours ago, brandon429 said:

brian

one heck of a stress relieving way to see your cycle is the only way you will not cycle within 40 days is if you add an antibiotic medication which you wont do

 

that means no matter what you do, what you switch to, if you change water, if you don't change water it will be ready by day 40, 50 if you want to be generous

 

that means no matter what your tests say, ever 

that means you don't have to test to cycle a reef tank. amazing concept, you can do it off number of days submerged and factoring in known boosts. yours w be ready before 40, but that's universal w cheats in any arrangement, so use that as a base completion date unless your ammonia testing shows otherwise long about week 3

 

day 40

 

headache reliever for all cycles. all the testing and meticulous dosing is for trying to beat a 40 day window, if  you are in no rush then any form of bacteria you add, and any form of ammonia along the way will make it work fine. you just change out all the water at the end of 40 days and begin reefing lightly with corals and clean up crews. wait to add fish the requisite quarantine time they require, that's another two mos before fish.

 

also, of all your params, only ammonia matters. Your cycle is solely based off number of days underwater and ammonia performance and absolutely not nitrite or nitrate readings. its not that those parameters don't change in a cycle; its that they are requisitely linked to what ammonia does, and number of days underwater, and you don't need to confirm something every single cycle chart online shows.

 

there's not one cycle chart where nitrite doesn't comply by day 40, a key detail in why that date keeps popping up.

there's not one cycle chart online where nitrite suddenly rises after day thirty, though API testers report that occurrence always in their cycling posts. We eliminate nitrite and nitrate testing to avoid false positives, you'll have hard enough time getting the ammonia accurate.

 

when you have reached the ammonia performance required and the bare minimum 30 days considering your substrate types, just do a massive water change and refill, it will be ready for a normal start. Don't input fish you haven't quarantined, ever, no matter the temptation.

 

 

Brandon429, thank you for the reassurance.  In summary, what you are saying that if system with rocks and sand will cycle on its own in 40 days even if one does nothing?  That thought is relaxing. 

[brandon429]

It's due to the boosters you are using

 

if I'm not mistaken that system you were dosing is for cycling and involves adding bottle bacteria right? It's possible to cycle a tank adding nothing, filter bacteria are worldwide contaminants along with many other species of bac and those setups may take past 40 days but dry surfaces will cycle without any help at all as that's how we setup freshwater aquaria in the 80s before people sold bottle bac.

 

 

If we add any form of boosting, even slightly off kilter to instructions, it's 40 days as those processes were going to be well under way before then but the boosts were just the amplifier needed for a predicted compliance date without having to test...due to the tests and relative dates others post in verified ammonia reading cycle threads.

 

 For saltwater I would give the true unassisted cycle a bit longer but for your cycle where I see you've dosed ammonia and am thinking some bottle bac, day 40 is the certain ok date across many tanks on some nice sized cycling threads. 

 

 

[brianinak]

DAY 7 and zero ammonia or nitrites so far

[brandon429]

Where is your ammonia coming from

 

In dr Tim's cycling they use liquid ammonium chloride

 

Some use a shrimp, which portion of your doser is ammonia, and how are you getting your system to 1ppm amm?

 

You must add it to get that level perhaps your additive is diluted a bit more, add till your ammonia is 1ppm then wait.

 

Dry cycling is us driving the system to 1ppm by adding ammonia, then bottle bac, then wait a month

 

Nitrite doesn't factor into your cycle measure only ammonia, spike it to 1ppm. It only gets 1 or 2 ppm when we make it that way via addition.

 

At any time you can take a different course if your red Sea setup is testing strangely:

 

Add water to tank and dry substrate

 

Use online calculators and dr Tim's ammonia, make tank water read 1ppm

 

Add half a bottle of someone's cycling bottle bac, doesn't matter which one as long as it's for cycling.

 

Wait two weeks repeat the exact steps above, wait two more weeks.

 

Change out water, begin, cycle guaranteed no testing needed.

[brianinak]

I am assuming the ammonia is entered into the system with red sea reef mature program.  I have tested my Salt water reserve and tank water and both have same reading.  I got on Reef 2 reef and other's have had similar issues with program.  I have an email into red sea, we will see if they respond.  After first round of suppliments the book stated you should have ammonia around 1ppm.  I had less than 0.02 or any. 

 

Going to stay patient, trust the process,  The 40 day thing you shared is reassuring.

[taj0930]

Im telling you, just get some Dr Tim's ammonia drops, or any non scented, NO ADDITIVES, ammonia. - Ace Hardware Janitorial (search the forums), raise the temp, add a bunch of air to water, and you're ready to go.  You shouldnt have to wait this long just to get ammonia, that means you're not even on step 1 yet. (not trying to rub sand in your wounds!)

 

Then if it takes too long for you for ammonia to drop, add a bacterial supplement - Ive had good luck with bio spira when I didnt want to wait anymore.

 

I wouldnt use a product that takes this long just to detect ammonia.  The waiting part for the cycle should be the Nitirite -> Nitrate part.  Not the ammonia.

[Lula_Mae]

1 hour ago, taj0930 said:

Im telling you, just get some Dr Tim's ammonia drops, or any non scented, NO ADDITIVES, ammonia. - Ace Hardware Janitorial (search the forums), raise the temp, add a bunch of air to water, and you're ready to go.  You shouldnt have to wait this long just to get ammonia, that means you're not even on step 1 yet. (not trying to rub sand in your wounds!)

 

Then if it takes too long for you for ammonia to drop, add a bacterial supplement - Ive had good luck with bio spira when I didnt want to wait anymore.

 

I wouldnt use a product that takes this long just to detect ammonia.  The waiting part for the cycle should be the Nitirite -> Nitrate part.  Not the ammonia.

+1. Get a source of ammonia in there if you want to get the cycle started.

[Bow4it]

I am pretty new here, but I listened to some of the members who said to go with the Dr. Tim's cycling method and it is working great.  The cycle is almost done. It was pretty easy.  Just do what the bottle says and listen to the people here about being patient.  

[brianinak]

Finally getting some readings

 

yesterday ammonia .6 (if I read it right, did not test nitrite) today, ammonia .02 and nitrite .2

 

seeing what I hope are diatoms on sand, small brown blotches

So think something is happening. 

 

Thank you all for the help

[schgr.cube]

I gave up cycling with specific methods a while ago, and just went on to the tried and true patience method. I made sure to buy some rock that has already been submerged in a tank of some kind, and tried to buy from a few spots, but other than that I just left it alone. Patience and stocking slowly to begin with leads to successful tanks.

[brianinak]

[brianinak]

Above is my test log.  Sorry about the poor hand writing.  In short, have had a mild increase in ammonia and nitrite followed by a decrease in both ammonia and nitrite,  Then increase in nitrate.  Nitrate getting pretty high.  Testing with Red sea test kit.  The colors tend to be more subjective then I would like. 

 

I feel something is cycle like is happening.  Thoughts?

 

25-28lbs reef saver

25ish lbs live sand (ocean direct)

Instant Ocean salt

 

[brianinak]

Diatoms seem to be lighter.  No other algae yet.