What am I battling here?? Diatoms, Dinos.... Driving me bonkers

[p-rizzle]

2 hours ago, seabass said:

You're welcome.  Oh, wait, that wasn't for me.   Sorry, never mind, just amusing myself here.

 

While all those things might help you with reefing in general, you aren't dealing with diatoms.  And if you were, it still wouldn't help, as diatoms are fueled by silicate.

So sorry... got confused. Thank you for the help and continued dialogue.  You seem very knowledgeable, and I'll take all the help I can get!

[seabass]

Haha, no worries p-rizzle.  I was joking around.  Just hope I can help.

 

Burt, I can definitely see it.  Looks like some form a brown hair algae.  That would explain why GFO might improve it, also why it has never fully gone away.  I'm not thinking it's diatoms (or dinos).  But who knows, I could be wrong.

[burtbollinger]

27 minutes ago, seabass said:

Haha, no worries p-rizzle.  I was joking around.  Just hope I can help.

 

Burt, I can definitely see it.  Looks like some form a brown hair algae.  That would explain why GFO might improve it, also why it has never fully gone away.  I'm not thinking it's diatoms (or dinos).  But who knows, I could be wrong.

It was my ASSUMPTION that this sort of brown hair algae IS a.k.a. diatoms....perhaps that my mistake.  

Actually, I'll blame this guy...he tosses the word "diatoms" around pretty freely...and this is exactly what my stuff looks like:  
 

 

[seabass]

In the video, it looks like he might have diatoms as well as another strain of brown algae.  I think that's where the confusion lies.  I think you are fighting a similar form of hair algae.

 

Looking at the OP's original pics, I'd want to say it's cyano.  However, the Chemiclean was not effective.  Plus there is some stringy masses (although just a few trapped bubbles).  This is how I came to believe it was dinos.  But I can't say that I'm positive it is.

[p-rizzle]

I decided a preemptive strike was in order. Inspired by Exodus, I decided to pull the dry rock out and remove the algae with a toothbrush.... While avoiding injury to my RFA's and Mushrooms. They're all back in the tank and seem pleased as punch for the time being. 

 

The algae came off pretty easily and the tank looks great, at the moment. Only took about 15 minutes or so, with minimal time out of the water for the living things. There is still a film on the black sand, and I'm sure it will pop back up on the rocks soon, but it feels like I'm winning the battle...... at least for now. 

 

Another thing I learned is that my female Clown is a complete turd. She got me pretty good a couple of times. I'm surprised a little thing like her can pack so much punch. I think I like her even more now. 

 

Thanks again for all of the continued advice / support. I can already tell why so many are addicted to the hobby. It's a bit like golf..... Slightly infuriating, but when things go right it's an absolute blast. 

[seabass]

13 minutes ago, p-rizzle said:

Another thing I learned is that my female Clown is a complete turd. She got me pretty good a couple of times. I'm surprised a little thing like her can pack so much punch. I think I like her even more now. 

Haha.  Yeah, I had one that wouldn't bother me as long as I was looking at her.  But look away, and she'd try to bite me.  Pretty smart for a fish.  But when it was feeding time, she was all like, "Hey, how's it going?"

[Clown79]

5 hours ago, seabass said:

So @burtbollinger, the OP describes it as, "When it gets thick, it has a wavy look to it. Definitely moving with the flow as opposed to just covering with no movement."   Looking closely at the pictures, you can see that it looks hairy.  I've never experienced diatoms like that before.  Is this consistent with what you experienced?

 

That's why I asked @p-rizzle if it looked better, as the lights just turn on, and worse at the end of the light cycle.  That is consistent with dinos.  However, it's difficult to positively identify dinos without a microscope.

 

 

I had similar algae, a few times.

It's a brownish red colour. Not slimy, not hairy, not hard.

It's more of a dusting on rocks and web like buildup on sand. 

 

Some thought it was cyano, some thought it was diatoms, some had no idea.

 

I still have no idea.

 

I reduced lighting, only lightly vacuumed sand, stirred lightly in between. Reduced coral feeding. 

I added purigen, added phosguard (changed at each water change as I use small amounts)

Cleaned all back chambers. Increased flow.

 

All this worked. 

 

 

 

[GregEmmitte]

Kinda looks like bacteria. I've got some white slime that looks just like that, only white.

[xthunt]

Stuff I get is very thin and wispy. Way, way thinner than hair algae, and doesn't get longer than 1/2" at the most. No bubbles or anything. I think its the same thing that OP has. Very smelly when out of water. Only grows in direct light, mostly stays on the rock, but will get a little in the corners of the glass. Weird thing is I only get it when I decide on a whim to run a carbon/phosguard mix. Im pretty sure it's the carbon that does it. Both black diamond and Brs rox. No problems using purigen. 

[p-rizzle]

1 hour ago, xthunt said:

Stuff I get is very thin and wispy. Way, way thinner than hair algae, and doesn't get longer than 1/2" at the most. No bubbles or anything. I think its the same thing that OP has. Very smelly when out of water. Only grows in direct light, mostly stays on the rock, but will get a little in the corners of the glass. Weird thing is I only get it when I decide on a whim to run a carbon/phosguard mix. Im pretty sure it's the carbon that does it. Both black diamond and Brs rox. No problems using purigen. 

Exactly the what I am dealing with. Smell and all. Still wondering what this could be.

[xthunt]

22 minutes ago, p-rizzle said:

Exactly the what I am dealing with. Smell and all. Still wondering what this could be.

No idea, but one dose of algaefix (I use the cheaper non-saltwater version) nearly clears it up totally after a few days. Next day or two days after gently brush whats left on rock and surfaces, let filter pad catch majority, change pad, keep blowing rock every 30 mins to keep the rest suspended and caught, then change pad again. For me, it only shows up when I run carbon, so I try not to use it. 

[seabass]

I'm at a loss.  Maybe it's one or more symptoms that is throwing me.  If it's algae, then why does PhosGuard make it worse?  Most activated carbon does release some phosphate, so I can possibly see why that may have an effect (on any photosynthetic life).  Also, while the AlgaeFix might indicate that it's algae, it could just as well be a colony of unicellular organisms that is affected by AlgaeFix.

[Weetabix7]

5 hours ago, seabass said:

I'm at a loss.  Maybe it's one or more symptoms that is throwing me.  If it's algae, then why does PhosGuard make it worse?  Most activated carbon does release some phosphate, so I can possibly see why that may have an effect (on any photosynthetic life).  Also, while the AlgaeFix might indicate that it's algae, it could just as well be a colony of unicellular organisms that is affected by AlgaeFix.

 

Wait, carbon releases some phosphate?

I had no idea!!

No matter how long I am in this hobby, I am constantly learning new things. 

Thx for the info (files it away). 

[seabass]

Sorry about this, but I'll take this temporary sidetrack.  Since we are talking about activated carbon...

 

Quote

While all carbons contain phosphate, regardless of false claims to the contrary, MatrixCarbon™ has the lowest detectable leachable phosphate content of all major carbon brands tested.

From the details of Seachem MatrixCarbon: http://www.seachem.com/matrixcarbon.php (it's a pretty short, but good read).  I'm not sure which "major carbon brands" were tested.

 

Although it doesn't talk about phosphate, here's a good video on activated carbon.

 

 

[Okinawa_Reefer]

I don't mean to hikack the OP's thread, but I'm having an issue very similar and I figured I could ask for everyone help here instead of starting a new thread. I have some long stringy brown stuff. I can blow it around with a turkey baster or brush it off pretty easily with a tooth brush. I too have tried reduced white lights and I've cut way back on feeding. I'm running biopellets, filter floss, purigen, chemi pure elite, and protein skimmer on the order (biocube). The tank has been up since the first of the year and I've been battling this shortly after startup which is what lead me on to think it was diatoms. But as you can see it gets stringy and captures air pockets which shows that it could possibly be Dino's. Help me!! LOL

[seabass]

@Okinawa_Reefer, it kind of looks like calothrix.  I'd try Chemiclean.

[p-rizzle]

Well that was fast.... It's probably just a coincidence, but as soon as I added the GFO (BRS) and Carbon (Red Sea Reef Spec), the algae came back with a vengeance. I decided some additional members of the clean up crew were necessary, but before introducing them I went nuclear on the tank.

 

I took out over half of the sand. (It was probably too thick to begin with). I did a 90% water change and removed some of the dry rock. The aquascape looks much better now, IMO. I'm sure whatever it is will come back, so the crew should have food to eat.

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Good luck with your tank, Okinawa! this forum has been a huge help to me already, and I'm sure they'll get you sorted as well.

 

-P 

[Okinawa_Reefer]

6 hours ago, seabass said:

@Okinawa_Reefer, it kind of looks like calothrix.  I'd try Chemiclean.

Thank you Seabass. That's the first time I've seen that page with the different alge type break down. Extremely helpful!! I'm going to get some chemiclean and give it a try and I'll let you know how we fair. 

2 hours ago, p-rizzle said:

Well that was fast.... It's probably just a coincidence, but as soon as I added the GFO (BRS) and Carbon (Red Sea Reef Spec), the algae came back with a vengeance. I decided some additional members of the clean up crew were necessary, but before introducing them I went nuclear on the tank.

 

I took out over half of the sand. (It was probably too thick to begin with). I did a 90% water change and removed some of the dry rock. The aquascape looks much better now, IMO. I'm sure whatever it is will come back, so the crew should have food to eat.

 

Thanks again for the help!

 

Good luck with your tank, Okinawa! this forum has been a huge help to me already, and I'm sure they'll get you sorted as well.

 

-P 

Thank you, and good luck with your tank as well! This forum is certainly an awesome way to reach out to some very intelligent people for help. 

[xthunt]

On 8/11/2017 at 8:16 PM, xthunt said:

Stuff I get is very thin and wispy. Way, way thinner than hair algae, and doesn't get longer than 1/2" at the most. No bubbles or anything. I think its the same thing that OP has. Very smelly when out of water. Only grows in direct light, mostly stays on the rock, but will get a little in the corners of the glass. Weird thing is I only get it when I decide on a whim to run a carbon/phosguard mix. Im pretty sure it's the carbon that does it. Both black diamond and Brs rox. No problems using purigen. 

Just wanted to add that maybe @seabass and @burtbollinger might have been right in calling it diatoms, at least what me and @p-rizzle have. Maybe some sort of diatoms that string together in current. When I blow it off the rock, and let the filter pad catch it, the filter pad is very brown when I take it out. Not red or green. In this video, the first 15 seconds, he says "diatoms almost an inch long covering many of the rocks". I just didn't know diatoms strung themselves together like that, from everything I've read, hence the confusion on my part. 

[seabass]

3 minutes ago, xthunt said:

In this video, the first 15 seconds, he says "diatoms almost an inch long covering many of the rocks". 

Thanks for that video link.  It's very interesting that yeast took care of it.  I'm amazed.  Good tip!

[xthunt]

3 minutes ago, seabass said:

Thanks for that video link.  It's very interesting that yeast took care of it.  I'm amazed.  Good tip!

I had a jar in my fridge and thought "why not" and put a pinch in the overflows to let it dissolve in the filter pads. If it works, hey! If not, no money or time lost. 

[p-rizzle]

Well.... The GFO didn't seem to make a difference. Actually, when I added the carbon and GFO I had another bloom. So I removed the GFO and added the Purigen. That and the additional snails have taken care of a lot of the problem. I'm still getting algae on the glass, but much less on the sand and rocks. The "fuzziness" has gone away for the most part and has instead been replaced by a less fuzzy brown film. I'm just letting it works itself out from here on. Seems to be getting better, so why mess with it?

 

I'll update with some pics when I can.

 

Thanks, again, for all of the help!

 

P

 

 

[Okinawa_Reefer]

I guess I'll just continue with my update in this thread as well (again I apologize to OP for somewhat hijacking the thread). I went ahead with the chemiclean treatment and didn't see much of an improvement. After the 48 hours had passed I did a 15 gallon water change. The following day I did another chemiclean treatment, followed by a three day black out. It seemed to have gotten rid of most of my issue but I'm still battling this (picture below). It looks like diatoms to me. I'm not sure why it would still be diatoms because the tank is 9 months old now. Also, all of this disappears every night but then returns to this current stage every day. After the three day black out I have began running gfo passively in a media bag along with BRS ROX carbon and I ditched the chemipire elite. I'm still running purigen (new bag every month). I'm at a loss as to why I would still be getting diatoms. Yes I do use RODI water with 0 TDS. Please let there be a reef god or goddess that can help me out and tell me what I'm doing wrong!

[seabass]

Could you try to get a close up picture of it?  It does look like diatoms from these pictures.  Also, diatoms wouldn't be affected by Chemiclean, so that's another clue.  Does it feel slimy or is it more powdery or crusty?

[Okinawa_Reefer]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

Could you try to get a close up picture of it?  It does look like diatoms from these pictures.  Also, diatoms wouldn't be affected by Chemiclean, so that's another clue.  Does it feel slimy or is it more powdery or crusty?

I'll have to snap a close up picture tomorrow because the lights are already off for the night and it has already began receding since the lights have gone off. I haven't touched it this go around since doing the three day black out. But previously it felt slimey. I'll give it a feel tomorrow lol. Thanks for your help seabass