Water change = Higher Parameters?!

[JonathanDillio]

So I am on week 4 of my cycle and things have been going ok and I guess as expected.

 

I say "i guess" because I used the Red Sea Reef Mature Pro Kit to help with my cycle and it did not do any of the things it says it was supposed to. Says its a 21 days cycle but here we are at week 4 and we are still not finished with the cycle. 

 

I have a Red Sea Max Nano tank and I did a 6 gallon water change yesterday. Amy Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate all tested higher then the day before. Is that normal? My pH has been a joke. Everything I try to do to get that number higher doesnt work. The day of my water changes it jumps up to 8.0 but the rest of the days of the week it stays at 7.6. 

 

Right now my parameters are as follows

Temp = 79.9

Salinity = 1.025

ph = 8.0 (because of water change)

Alkalinity = 9.0 dKH 

Ammonia = 0.3ppm

Nitrite = 0.4ppm

Nitrate = 30-40ppm

 

Before the water change my Ammonia was at 0.1ppm , my Nitrite was at 0.2ppm, and my Nitrate was at 30ppm.

 

I only dose the tank with NO3:PO4-X on a daily basis and I use Red Sea Coral Pro Salt. 

 

Any suggestions would help. I know that Im still in the midst of my cycle and that some cycles take longer (especially since I used cured dry rock and live sand). Im more wondering if the numbers look "good" and if its normal to see a light spike in parameters after a water change. It seems weird to me because I always see people talking about doing water changes to get nutrients lower. PS, this is my first ever saltwater tank. 

 

THANKS! 

 

[jeffmr4]

I'd say stop dosing no3po4x, switch to red sea salt and pour in a bottle of instant ocean bio-spira.  After your ammonia and nitrites stay at zero, you can start doing water changes which should bring your nitrates down some.  Your other parameters look fine.

[anizato]

+1 on stop the NOPOX. nopox only shoud be used on mature aquariums and those that have a skimmer running.

 

you need to add some beneficial bacteria (biospira, dr tims, etc)

 

you should not have performed the WC until after the cycle is done. You still have Ammonia and Nitrite present which means the cycle is far from done, regardless of it being 800 weeks or 4 weeks or 21 days. Every tank is different and every situation will never happen the same for anyone. 

 

My advice, is get a Dr Tims Ammonium Chloride ($2) and dose it to your tank's Ammonia to get it up to 4-6ppm. and monitor it until it reaches 0ppm. See how many days it took from 4-6ppm to 0ppm. Continue to dose Ammonium Chloride (beneficial bacteria food) and test to 0ppm, and repeat this cycle until your Ammonia readings reach 0ppm in 24 hours. Once your Ammonia can be reduced from 4-6ppm to 0ppm in 24 hours, your tank is ready for anything you throw at it (BUT WAIT!). And even then, you should wait at least a week, to have this bacteria stabilize. Read your Nitrate, it should be ridiculously high... because all that Ammonium Chloride you have been dosing has been converting to Nitrite and finally into Nitrate. Finally make a large WC... about 50%. Re-test everything and Nitrate should be considerably lowered by now. Ammonia should be 0 and Nitrite 0 at this point. 

Your tank has been cycled! what this means though is that you begin your weekly water changes (regular maintenance) and your first CUC can be added and maaaaybe first fish (this being your first tank I advise against it - just wait, it will be worth it) ... I would still wait for diatoms to occur and CUC to clean it up before adding a swimmer. First, I would add a million pods and a very small but very selective CUC, choose carefully! take your time selecting the critters,( e.g. Nassarius are awesome but only survive if you feed HEAVILY (and you only feed heavily if you have a large skimmer, refugium, fish, tank), things like that.)

 

After a week or so of having a CUC clean the diatoms a little, re-test,  WC to continue to lower Nitrates...once Nitrates are below 10ppm, then you should add your first fish (although 99% of people add them as soon as the cycle is done). Remember, and this I cannot emphasize enough, don't think of this hobby as keeping fish or coral, see it as keeping pristine water quality. 

Do you have an RODI unit? This should be the MOST important purchase for your reef tank. If you don't have one, I would make this my priority before any fish or coral, or any other equipment you had in mind. RODI buddy, that is where success is at!

 

Hope this helps. 

 

 

[JonathanDillio]

4 hours ago, anizato said:

+1 on stop the NOPOX. nopox only shoud be used on mature aquariums and those that have a skimmer running.

 

you need to add some beneficial bacteria (biospira, dr tims, etc)

 

you should not have performed the WC until after the cycle is done. You still have Ammonia and Nitrite present which means the cycle is far from done, regardless of it being 800 weeks or 4 weeks or 21 days. Every tank is different and every situation will never happen the same for anyone. 

 

My advice, is get a Dr Tims Ammonium Chloride ($2) and dose it to your tank's Ammonia to get it up to 4-6ppm. and monitor it until it reaches 0ppm. See how many days it took from 4-6ppm to 0ppm. Continue to dose Ammonium Chloride (beneficial bacteria food) and test to 0ppm, and repeat this cycle until your Ammonia readings reach 0ppm in 24 hours. Once your Ammonia can be reduced from 4-6ppm to 0ppm in 24 hours, your tank is ready for anything you throw at it (BUT WAIT!). And even then, you should wait at least a week, to have this bacteria stabilize. Read your Nitrate, it should be ridiculously high... because all that Ammonium Chloride you have been dosing has been converting to Nitrite and finally into Nitrate. Finally make a large WC... about 50%. Re-test everything and Nitrate should be considerably lowered by now. Ammonia should be 0 and Nitrite 0 at this point. 

Your tank has been cycled! what this means though is that you begin your weekly water changes (regular maintenance) and your first CUC can be added and maaaaybe first fish (this being your first tank I advise against it - just wait, it will be worth it) ... I would still wait for diatoms to occur and CUC to clean it up before adding a swimmer. First, I would add a million pods and a very small but very selective CUC, choose carefully! take your time selecting the critters,( e.g. Nassarius are awesome but only survive if you feed HEAVILY (and you only feed heavily if you have a large skimmer, refugium, fish, tank), things like that.)

 

After a week or so of having a CUC clean the diatoms a little, re-test,  WC to continue to lower Nitrates...once Nitrates are below 10ppm, then you should add your first fish (although 99% of people add them as soon as the cycle is done). Remember, and this I cannot emphasize enough, don't think of this hobby as keeping fish or coral, see it as keeping pristine water quality. 

Do you have an RODI unit? This should be the MOST important purchase for your reef tank. If you don't have one, I would make this my priority before any fish or coral, or any other equipment you had in mind. RODI buddy, that is where success is at!

 

Hope this helps. 

 

 

So this is where I am now.

 

Based on previous recommendations I did a 10g water change last tuesday.  Two days later I tested my water and my numbers were EXACTLY the same. I just test again today and my numbers are still the same. My ammonia is 0.2ppm, my Nitrite is around 1ppm, and my Nitrate is off the scales high. I am using the Red Sea Testing Kit.

 

I have an RODI unit and use Red Sea Coral Pro salt. I honestly dont know what I am doing wrong. This is my first saltwater/reef tank but I do have fish care knowledge as I am a Registered Veterinary Nurse and I had an, almost self sufficient, 75g fresh water tank for years. I feel stupid and frustrated that this isnt going how I feel it should be. I am staying positive though and please dont take my frustration as whining or wanting to give up.

 

I was thinking about adding biospira but wasnt sure if that was something I should do. Right now I have a "controlled" amount of green algae in the tank. When I say controlled I mean that its on the rock and sand bed but not creeping up the glass or anything like that.  

 

I wish I had a friend that was close that could come check shit out and make sure Im not making some stupid mistake. lol

[anizato]

cool! 

 

no need to get frustrated you are doing fine.

In my opinion I would still consider getting the Dr. Tim's Ammonium Chloride and dose that. (Ammonium Chloride is food for beneficial bacteria, raising Ammonia to 4-6ppm is ensuring there is enough food for the bacteria to reproduce properly. When this much Ammonia is consumed within 24 hours, it indicates your beneficial bacteria is strong enough to house the animals it will be fed by (fish breath, fish poop, uneaten food, wastes, etc)

Or if you want to wing it on the adventurous side (of course this route is dangerous and may crash your tank down the line) just get a CUC of hermit crabs, Astrea snails and turbo snails to get you started. See if they consume the algae on the rocks. .....It is not controlled since NOTHING is there to stop it from growing, unless you pluck it with your fingers, that algae is out of control.

I personally, would add the Dr. Tims AC and go that way and just cycle the tank "again" (more like properly, this will make your tank strong for the long run).

 

The reason you are seeing the same results is because you are testing sporadically, so when you test, the water has time to reach the same levels as when you last tested. As opposed to testing everyday to see the actual fluctuations in between. Which is why with cycling it is best to test daily. You will also test daily (for a couple of weeks) when you fill your tank and you have to figure out your dosing schedule (ALK;CA;MG) to learn how much of these elements your tank/corals consume daily, etc. which you will need to replenish daily (unless you have a light bioload and Water Changes will suffice in replenishing these needed elements).

 

In a cycle it is best to test practically everyday until you see Ammonia at 0 then you can test once or twice a week. this will give you a sense of exactly what is happening in your water box.  

You NEED to get used to testing because it should be and will become part of your daily/not so daily routine.