Birdsnest Trouble

[holy carp]

I'm having a hard time understanding why birdsnest is so challenging in my system.

 

tank parameters have been stable

pH stays between 8.15 and 8.35

temp between 79 and 80.5°F

Alk ~8,2

Ca ~340

Mg ~1360

NO3 0

PO4 ~0.04-0.06

 

I had a pointy birdsnest that blistered and died a couple months ago.

 

Then I've had a green blunt-tipped birdsnest for the last 3 weeks.

It started out fine:

 

Then this past weekend the flesh started to separate from the skeleton:

 

And this morning you can just see it hanging off:

 

Flow is mainly laminar and constant, but not very high.

Polyps never seemed to retract...

 

Any suggestions?

[Alexraptor]

IME Seriatoporas are more sensetive to changes in alkalinity than any other coral I have ever encountered.

Even minor Alk swings seem to be enough to cause them to self-destruct.

[patback]

On the plus side, that polyp extension looks great.....

 

Is the tearing off consistent with the flow?

[mitten_reef]

It took 3 weeks to get to the last photo?   I had BoP arrived well, but didn't like being shipped (or maybe my tank), started shedding flesh the day after I put it in the tank. By the time it was done shedding, it probably had half of the flesh left.  But once it stabilizes and gets used to my tank, I believe that took a week or two, it is now a growth machine.

 

What I'd do: Keep an eye on it, specifically, making sure it's not getting stung by anything nearby (the very first white patch looks like a sting/burn). I heard elegance tentacles can be unruly, and I can't tell where this birdnest is in your tank.  And hope that it gets comfortable before it loses all the polyps and flesh.  Also, target feeding some coral food may help strengthen what's left of it?   I was never good at keeping records of water parameters, so I can't share much on that.  

 

[holy carp]

Well, the flow is from right to left.  It's really quite gentle, and just to the right of it are zoas and palys that are quite content in the current.  It's definitely not strong enough to hurt corals, as it is the general return current towards the drain, not in the blast of a pump or powerhead.

 

 

It was doing fine from 6/6 until I first noticed a tiny bit of skeleton showing last Friday 6/23.  Did a water change on Saturday 6/24 (which could have swung alk a bit to AR's point.  I use Tropic Marin, which mixes to around 7dKH, and intentionally dose slightly more than corals use to prevent it dropping below that.  As a result I'm usually around 8.8 before a water change and 8.0 right after), and took the middle photo on Sunday 6/25.  The bottom photo was this morning 6/27.  So from what I saw, it was stable for about 2-3 weeks and the problems showed over just a few days 

 

Regarding Alk swings, though, this coral came from a friend who doesn't even test alkalinity or dose, and just uses RSCP water changes to bump it up every water change.  So I have a hard time believing his husbandry gave it a more stable alk environment, and yet it grows like a weed in his tank.

 

(Oh, and the only coral that could come close to reaching it is the dendrophyllia, but that would be coming from the left (downstream) and couldn't reach more than the leftmost tips in theory.)

[Nano sapiens]

3 hours ago, holy carp said:

tank parameters have been stable

pH stays between 8.15 and 8.35

temp between 79 and 80.5°F

Alk ~8,2

Ca ~340

Mg ~1360

NO3 0

PO4 ~0.04-0.06

 

 

CA is really low (shoot for 400 - 440 ppm)

Your NO3 and PO4 ratio is inverted.  If you are going to run 0.04 - 0.06 PO4, then I'd suggest raising the NO3 to around 2-5 ppm.

 

As mentioned, Seriatopora in general can be quite touchy.  They are slow to adapt to changes in lighting intensity/spectrum and don't like large alkalinity changes.  I added three frags of different species (from a very differently lit tank) in my mature and stable tank, but it still took them ~6 months to really 'get in the groove'.

[Clown79]

Birdsnest can be great for a long while  and go downhill really quickly.

 

Some take a long time to acclimate to changes as well. Going from one tank to another can be enough to send them  downhill.

 

My experience, alk swings are a major issue for birdsnest. All sps really. They don't like the swings. 

 

Linear flow they don't do well with as well. They like turbulent flow. 

 

The ca in your tank is a bit low. The lowest it should be is 380. But if you dose to increase that, your alk will drop so doing 2 part is the better option.

 

Nitrates being at 0 could also be an issue. Feeding corals will add nutrients to the tank

[holy carp]

Thanks for the insights. 

 

This evening:

 

The flesh is just hanging off now, but PE is still great.

 

I still find the timing surprising, since I would think acclimation shock would be more immediate, and this was doing quite well for a while. 

 

I can bring up my calcium. I dose ESV 2 part with BRS dosers, and I think the calcium one is slightly slower.

 

I'll retest nitrates, but I've never been able to test >0, so I don't know how I'd get them up.

 

I actually wonder if it's possible that some pathogen is affecting the tissue.

[Clown79]

No. It could be rtn.

 

This can happen over night with sps, even when they  have done well for long periods

[RayWhisperer]

IME, flesh coming off of any sps is rtn, stn, or a predator. Though, with a predator, it's usually not peeling off. I think your best bet is to frag what's left and hope for the best. 

 

However, I can't help but wonder if your Foraminifra population is running out of coralline to consume, and focusing on other, now more abundant food sources. Much like an urchin will do when it eats all the coralline in a tank. Have you seen any on your birdsnest?

 

Edit. Looking closer at the last pic, I see small dark spots around some of the afflicted area. Are those spots dead/dying polyps, or are they your reef roaches?

[holy carp]

Yeah, I noticed those dark spots as well.  As best I can tell, they are polyps, and with a magnifying glass I haven't been able to spot anything on the coral itself.  Those forams continue to decimate coralline, but there are still sizable patches of coralline left here and there.  I have looked for but never found any of those forams on any of the corals, luckily.  The birdsnest coral has gotten quite a bit worse and doesn't seem fraggable at this point.  There is a little flesh attached at the base and at the tips, and there are a few lone polyps attached in the middle of the white skeleton.  The flesh was just peeling away, which made me suspect mass polyp bailout of some sort.  The polyps remained open the entire time even as the flesh would fall off and float around, though I doubt they'll find purchase anywhere.