Putting Matrix to the test! Now that Marinepure is out!

[blatzphemy]

After Marinepure was confirmed to release Aluminum by Ryan at BRS I decided to put Seachem's Matrix to the test. There's tons of great reviews out there that claim Nitrates dropped in less than a week at times. While I don't think this will be the case I decided to run my own experiment.

The tank will run with no additives, just top off water. No filtration, only a heater to keep the tank at 80 degree. (The warmer temp helps breed bacteria)

I originally planned on adding two small clowns to keep a constant flow of ammonia (and I might later) but I feel the nitrite is too high. This isnt a real enough experiment to risk any little guys.
___________

Tank background

The tank ran as a temporary holding tank while I was moving my fish around. In that time the Ammonia skyrocketed and the fish were pulled out. Since then it has just been cycling for almost two months. The tank has two MP40's to ensure flow and proper gas exchange.

Seachem recommends two liters per 200 gallons. I will be running 20 liters inside media bags. the tank has roughly 100 gallons of water in it.

http://www.seachem.com/pond-matrix.php

Ammonia 0

Nitrite >1

Nitrate >50

(Red Sea)

If anyone has any input or ideas I would love to hear it! It's temping to add a carbon source to feed the bacteria.

[MrBill2u]

I heard Ryan mention it as a possible concern.  When did he *confirm* the marinepure aluminum conjecture as fact?

[blatzphemy]

11 minutes ago, MrBill2u said:

I heard Ryan mention it as a possible concern.  When did he *confirm* the marinepure aluminum conjecture as fact?

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/i...brstv-investigates.307515/page-4#post-3803880

Here's the link

[dandelion]

That's quite a lot of matrix. The results might not be applicable to us folks with AIO tanks.

[blatzphemy]

1 minute ago, dandelion said:

That's quite a lot of matrix. The results might not be applicable to us folks with AIO tanks.

I agree, but the chemistry is still the same. I see a lot of Nano's running Matrix. Matrix and Pond Matrix are the same. According to Seachem the flow over the media does not matter. This should make it applicable for Nanos that want to utilize it.

[dandelion]

As far as I know pond matrix are larger so there would be more anaerobic space. Downside would it you'll not be able to fit as much in a confined space.

 

I do have matrix in my nano but I have to say it's effect is not as prominent as a fuge.

[blatzphemy]

 

1 hour ago, dandelion said:

As far as I know pond matrix are larger so there would be more anaerobic space. Downside would it you'll not be able to fit as much in a confined space.

 

I do have matrix in my nano but I have to say it's effect is not as prominent as a fuge.

According to the manufacture the flow rate doesn't matter. They are both large enough to harbor the denitrifying bacteria thats sought after.

[Travis]

Tagging along.

 

I purchased 2 liters of the Matrix just yesterday to place into my cycling tank.  I have seen this stuff used on VERY successful tanks.

 

Example: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/cfloors-190gal-sps.206411/

[blatzphemy]

http://www.seachem.com/matrix.php

It's also worth mentioning the Seachem only recommends 250ml for every 50 gal. That means you only need 25ml for a 10 gal nano etc.

[Travis]

1 minute ago, blatzphemy said:

http://www.seachem.com/matrix.php

It's also worth mentioning the Seachem only recommends 250ml for every 50 gal. That means you only need 25ml for a 10 gal nano etc.

Yeh, that link states that dosage was just recently discovered through testing, and may differ from what is on the packaging.  Marine Depot has the old dosage listed on their description.

[blatzphemy]

11 minutes ago, Travis said:

Yeh, that link states that dosage was just recently discovered through testing, and may differ from what is on the packaging.  Marine Depot has the old dosage listed on their description.

Thank you for sharing the link, very cool read. It's not until page 6 he mentions he's using 4L of Matrix for anyone curious.

Honestly, I wouldn't trust MarineDepot. IMO they're shysters. I have found information that conflicted with the manufactures on their site and in the past when I received a defective product they would not let me return it. Their website says 60 days. My only option was being sent the parts needed to fix it. I have too much into my tank to risk something breaking in less than 30 days again.  

The actual dosage will probably very a lot due to a lot of variables. The product itself has a lot of variation in size.

[EvilFish]

I tried matrix in canister (freshwater), it doesn't noting with nitrates

[blatzphemy]

1 hour ago, EvilFish said:

I tried matrix in canister (freshwater), it doesn't noting with nitrates

How much did you use? How long? How large was the system? I'm honesty at a loss when it comes to freshwater. I have had a lot of success with biomedia and dosing carbon in reef tanks.

[blatzphemy]

So it's been 24 hours and the water is visibly more clear. Prior to adding the rocks the substrate had not been disturbed.


I went ahead and tested the levels because the water was looking so clear and we're still looking at the same values.

[Clown79]

Can you use it while using purigen? 

[dandelion]

25 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Can you use it while using purigen? 

I don't see why not. All it is is pumice (or some very porous rocks) for biofiltration. 

[1891Bro]

The brighwell Aquatics brand of whatever this stuff is says to seed it with bacteria before introduction. In a container of tankwater for 24 hours with a tank sized dose of bottled bacteria. 

[blatzphemy]

2 hours ago, 1891Bro said:

The brighwell Aquatics brand of whatever this stuff is says to seed it with bacteria before introduction. In a container of tankwater for 24 hours with a tank sized dose of bottled bacteria. 

There was bacteria introduced to the tank already. Prior to adding the Matrix I cycled the tank with ammonia and bacteria. I did this until the ammonia hit 0 within 24 hours.

[1891Bro]

29 minutes ago, blatzphemy said:

There was bacteria introduced to the tank already. Prior to adding the Matrix I cycled the tank with ammonia and bacteria. I did this until the ammonia hit 0 within 24 hours.

I'm so proud. 

I was just saying what the directions say. Like the ones on this bottle. 

 

Lol.  It looks like the wife is missing a toe. 

 

[blatzphemy]

On a whim tonight I decided to test the tank. I cannot believe the results. I tested twice and I'm racking my brain to try and figure out how this happened. I will go into a detailed list of everything I did because in less than a week I was successful. By no means was my test proper controlled test and other variables could have come into play. As much as I don't want to believe it... the Pond Matrix was a key component.







The results speak for themselves. Incase it's hard to see the Nitrates are around 5 or less.

Here's a list of everything that happened with this tank.

Tank cleaned with vinegar 
Sand added from an old tank
Added a few pieces of rock
sand treated with a little Biomate, Zeobak and Zeozym.
without testing I added ammonia and a bottle of Bio-Spira.
I continued to add ammonia daily until the bacteria was able to drop it to zero within 24 hours.
Phosphates and Nitrates remained off the charts
tank sat roughly for a month or longer
Phosphates and Nitrates were still off the charts when I added 20L of Pond Matrix and a little Bio-Spira I had left in the bottle.
Prior to adding the Pond Matrix the sand still had a brownish tint to it and the water was cloudy (see first pic)
After adding the media the water was noticeably clearer within 24 hours
Despite the high phosphates/Nitrates I decided to add the clown as a small source of ammonia. I watched them closely for any signs of distress.
I believe in the Redfield Ratio and thought the addition of a small ammonia source would be helpful over what I thought would be weeks of cycling.

5 days later these are my results... I almost feel foolish posting them. Without a doubt the Pond Matrix served as a surface to grow bacteria. Denitrifying bacteria was able to form and consume the nitrates. I don't think this means Matrix is the Holy Grail of keeping your nutrients in check but it definitely worked in my application. 

IMO this is part of a inexpensive system to control nutrients. If you combine bio media with some kind of carbon source you will see the best results. 

I will leave the tank as is for a little longer and continue to test ... stay tuned! 

[William]

Where/when did bra confirm the aluminum leaching 

[blatzphemy]

11 hours ago, William said:

Where/when did bra confirm the aluminum leaching 

See the second post

[William]

From my reading of the tread, the Al seen on the triton test is likely AlSi dust and should* be inert ....

[dandelion]

I don't see any before and after for phosphate. Did matrix do anything?

[Clown79]

I was comsidering adding seachem matrix to my 15g filtration but heard that it too leaches aluminum