blatzphemy Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 Hey Reefers, As a professional athlete who's finally able to commit a little more time to the hobby due to an injury I decided to document the trials and tribulations of my lagoon and reef build. I've learned a lot in this hobby over the years and I hope to shed some light on some false concepts and things I have had to learn the hard way. Maybe you guys will catch one of my mistakes during this extensive build and steer me in the right direction as well. Since not everything in this hobby is an exact science and a lot of what we learn is through anecdotal evidence. I enjoy sparking intelligent conversations about the hobby and bettering the environment for future reefers. Things have definitely evolved in the seven years I've been reefing. To get started I thought I'd share some pictures and videos of my prior set up. The 250 gallon lagoon held up well for years despite my constant absence. Water changes were almost never done and the tank relied heavily on natural filtration. Most of these fish were juveniles when I introduced them to the aquarium but quickly outgrew the tank. The hardest fish to part with was a Spiny Puffer named Manatee. He was full of personality and it was like letting go of a puppy that had outgrew your home. He was tame to the point where you could pet him and scratch his belly. He lived for attention and would even spray you with water when he saw you were leaving. I had him for five years and never dreamed he would outgrow such a large tank. Manatee is currently awaiting adoption papers to Seaworld Florida. Here's a video: https://youtu.be/i5Tf6tOVVwg and a picture: http://imgur.com/utRDA3O If anyone is interested here is a build thread on constructing the LED lights years ago. http://imgur.com/a/4vnQf Despite common belief a strong population of mangroves managed to keep the nutrients low in this setup. Some issues I ran into were the rocks falling over as the roots grew and the fish eating the roots. I highly suggest using Bonsai anodized aluminum wire to direct the trees growth. I was able to get them to grow together and even act as a support system as they grew. I kept a small spray bottle of RODI water on hand and would occasionally spray the salt creep off of them. I'm fortunate enough to be able to just collect the propagules locally. Most online sellers (especially the ones in Hawaii) start these trees off in fresh water. I believe this is why many reefers struggle with this method. I started my new setup with around 5-600 lbs of live rock to build my structures. This time around I elected to use the Haitian rock due to it's flat surfaces and shapes. I believe the older bolder designs in the past have led to some limits in flow patterns and I believe the hobby is moving towards a more minimalistic rockscape. I plan on growing a lot more coral like I had in my previous tanks. This is another reason I had to donate a lot of fish. Building a biological filtration population that could sustain that many fish would have taken a long time. I used dry rock for a variety of reasons but I'd say the main benefits are not introducing pests into a new system and cost. In a tank this large it is really hard to catch something once it's in the system. I also planned on using a mortar and silicone system to adhere the rocks to each other in order to have a stable structure for the new mangrove roots. To be honest I regret buying live sand and wish I had went with dry. Live sand clouds up the system so badly it took days of protein skimming to remove the dust cloud. I even added the sand prior to the salt water to avoid this. IMO the best method is to use dry sand and wash it thoroughly. This was only a few hours of skimming This time around I cycled my system using bacteria additives. Despite the claims it is very possible to overdose these products. My cycle was dropping the ammonia added at a rapid rate and suddenly stopped when I added the powerful "turbo start" Fritz offers. What I believe happened is there was so much bacteria (it smelled god aweful) the trace elements were being removed too quickly. Once I reintroduced these through water changes and additives the cycle started all over again. I then ran into an unbalance; the phosphates would start bottoming out and the leave the nitrates extremely high. I still have this issue but I was actually able to get things going again by adding some Coca-cola to the system utilizing the sugar and phosphates it contains. Cycling this tank was a nightmare for me. If I had to do it all over again I would use a bacteria additive based on the products recommendations and not overdo it. The system is still cycling two months later. I couldnt keep a few of the fish in holding for two long so I was forced to add a large bioload to the tank a few weeks into the cycle. I did this as gradual as possible. I'm currently dosing Vodka, Zeostart3, ZeoBak, and SeaChem Stability in order to gain decent biological population before I start making too many changes to the system. I have the 150 gallon reef cycling as well, as soon as thats done I will tie it into this system and hopefully establish an strong bacterial population. The plan is to get to the point where I'm just using only the ZeoStart and ZeoBak as my carbon source and bacteria additive. I'm using a gallon of Marinepure spheres, the 4x8x10 block, 4 liters of matrix and maybe even some pond matrix in my sump in the future. I'm currently growing out Dragons Breath macro algae and plan on having a large enough amount in the 60 gallon refugium to keep nutrients low. 1 1 Quote Link to comment
moosubi Posted June 5, 2017 Share Posted June 5, 2017 1 hour ago, blatzphemy said: (it smelled god aweful) It should have just smelled like dirt. If it smelled like sewage, it was most likely bad/exposed to heat/expired/etc... Love to see where this tank goes! Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 5, 2017 Author Share Posted June 5, 2017 Just now, moosubi said: It should have just smelled like dirt. If it smelled like sewage, it was most likely bad/exposed to heat/expired/etc... Love to see where this tank goes! It smelled like pure sulfur. I had to open up the doors and windows and even then I could barely sleep with the smell looming in the house. Maybe that's why I'm still going through min cycles. I currently have .04 Ammonia, 0 Phosphates, and 50+ nitrates. I'm staying with the dosing and feeding very light. Hopefully the bacteria will pick up and some of this media will eventually help with nitrates. Thank you! I cannot wait to hook the reef up. I'm building some really custom live rock and look forward to presenting it. Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 11, 2017 Author Share Posted June 11, 2017 When the full system is up and running I have around 32-35 gallons evaporated a week of loss. I expect this to fluctuate a lot in the near future. I plan on building magnetized wainscoting panels around the tank. I also have a lot more flow than I had in the past. The plan is to use the new Neptune**** auto top of a splice in a jumper for the Solenoid and the pump and have my auto top off reservoir in another location. This will make it so my RODI is not short cycling and I plan to have my tank top off in intervals throughout the day. I've also decided to start keeping my own log book of test results. I have an Apex and it has these options but I this will be another way to bring out my creative side and give me an opportunity to sketch. This is a great logbook I found for under 8 bucks.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N1QF9MC/ref=twister_B01MXWVNWO?_encoding=UTF8&th=1 **** I have had all kinds of problems with Neptune products and their customer support is horrible. After hours of reading forums and troubleshooting I found out my Energybar832 was bad. I have only had it a few months so it should be under warranty right? Well it's the customer's responsibility to pay to send it to them. This also increases the turnaround time of getting this essential item you paid so much for to begin with. I have never had these problems with Ecotech. In fact, it's been the opposite. They send out a new product with a dollar deposit and I can get ahold of their customer service in minutes. Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 Here's some shots of the rockwork before I added sand and water 3 Quote Link to comment
WV Reefer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 14 minutes ago, blatzphemy said: Here's some shots of the rockwork before I added sand and water Oooh i like it!! 1 Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 1 hour ago, WV Reefer said: Oooh i like it!! I need to get on your picture taking level! Thanks for the info on IG! 1 Quote Link to comment
WV Reefer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 Just now, blatzphemy said: I need to get on your picture taking level! Thanks for the info on IG! Thanks. And you are welcome for the info! I just use my iPhone 7. No special skills here. Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 13, 2017 Author Share Posted June 13, 2017 36 minutes ago, WV Reefer said: Thanks. And you are welcome for the info! I just use my iPhone 7. No special skills here. Whaaaa, I have the same phone. I'll work on better shots. Every time I go up to my tank my fish crowed my viewing. I have to sit back to view it. I'll have to post a video, even the eels come out and start blocking my view. 1 Quote Link to comment
WV Reefer Posted June 13, 2017 Share Posted June 13, 2017 7 minutes ago, blatzphemy said: Whaaaa, I have the same phone. I'll work on better shots. Every time I go up to my tank my fish crowed my viewing. I have to sit back to view it. I'll have to post a video, even the eels come out and start blocking my view. Pics or it didn't happen. Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 It's time to start adding mangroves! It's early in the season so most of the propagules collected are pretty small. I suggest starting these in some kind of substrate like Miracle Mud if your phosphates are low enough and you're not prone to algae. My tank is rather new and for my application it is best to lodge them into the rock structure securely so the roots can take hold. My rock work is set up so the tangs do not have access to the roots. With that said, it's also important to have some kind of flow for the roots that are exposed to just water and no substrate. As the mangroves grow I plan on using bonsai anodized aluminum wire to direct the trees. It's really hard to place coral and mangroves with the eels. I was bit yesterday. The eels do not like any changes to their rock and will defend it violently. Before adding them to my tank I soaked the mangroves in tap water and coral dip. They know what they did. I added the mangroves to both of my rock structures. I hope to have them meet in the middle using the bonsai wire If you have any questions about Mangroves I'd be happy to answer them. I have kept them successfully for years. 2 Quote Link to comment
WV Reefer Posted June 26, 2017 Share Posted June 26, 2017 1 minute ago, blatzphemy said: It's time to start adding mangroves! It's early in the season so most of the propagules collected are pretty small. I suggest starting these in some kind of substrate like Miracle Mud if your phosphates are low enough and you're not prone to algae. My tank is rather new and for my application it is best to lodge them into the rock structure securely so the roots can take hold. My rock work is set up so the tangs do not have access to the roots. With that said, it's also important to have some kind of flow for the roots that are exposed to just water and no substrate. As the mangroves grow I plan on using bonsai anodized aluminum wire to direct the trees. [MEDIA=youtube]Qf0PSO7hzYA[/MEDIA] It's really hard to place coral and mangroves with the eels. I was bit yesterday. The eels do not like any changes to their rock and will defend it violently. [MEDIA=youtube]CrBlUf5tj3Q[/MEDIA] Before adding them to my tank I soaked the mangroves in tap water and coral dip. They know what they did. I added the mangroves to both of my rock structures. I hope to have them meet in the middle using the bonsai wire If you have any questions about Mangroves I'd be happy to answer them. I have kept them successfully for years. The eels are awesome! I wouldn't want to stick my hand in there though. 1 Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 26, 2017 Author Share Posted June 26, 2017 7 minutes ago, WV Reefer said: The eels are awesome! I wouldn't want to stick my hand in there though. They're surprisingly smart with this. They're almost blind so it's bound to happen but then they bit me it was more of a warning or 10% bite. It didn't hurt and was more alarming than anything 2 Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 Finally! It was time to add SPS to my system!I'll try and get some pictures when the corals start really opening up. If anyone has experience with these corals and wants to offer any advice I'd appreciate it!New stock list!Garf BonsaiMr PackmanBlue MonsterMiyagi TortRed PlanetSunset Monti Tyree Rainbow Stylo Tyree Toxic Green capORA Red GonioporaShock TartRaspberry Limeade Purple CapSome kind of Green AcroporaORA clamPeacock Mantis Shrimp (sump)So far I'm really digging the Garf Bonsai, Packman, and the Red Planet. I ended up getting a copy of World Wide Corals Radions program since they're pros over there and keep them about the same distance off the water in their farm. I had mine at 60% and they've been running theirs at 30%. I'm definitely looking into a PAR meter. 1 Quote Link to comment
graftobny142 Posted June 29, 2017 Share Posted June 29, 2017 Bacteria starting products are a waste of $. The bacteria involved in nitrification are present in every ecosystem. The population will grow as soon as you have water in the tank. Using an ammonia solution is all that's needed to kickstart the cycle. Quote Link to comment
blatzphemy Posted June 29, 2017 Author Share Posted June 29, 2017 4 hours ago, themummra said: Bacteria starting products are a waste of $. The bacteria involved in nitrification are present in every ecosystem. The population will grow as soon as you have water in the tank. Using an ammonia solution is all that's needed to kickstart the cycle. I disagree, using the Bio Spira product I was able to cycle my tank extremely fast. I added ammonia several times and by the 5-6 day I was able to get the ammonia to drop to nothing within a 24h period. This would have never happened if I just let nature take it's course. My tank is not even two months old and extremely healthy despite the huge bioload. I have 5 large tangs, two huge eels, and various other fish like clowns in blennys. Yesterday I added several colonies of SPS and they are doing well. Before this I added a few small colonies around a month ago and I can already see decent growth. Check out my Pond Matrix experiment. I believe the bacteria additive was a key component.https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/putting-pond-matrix-to-the-test-now-that-marinepure-is-out.310313/page-4#post-3837383 Besides all these accounts look at how successful the KZ tanks are. The ZeoBak is the backbone of that system. Most of this bacteria replicates slowly 10-20hours. I bacteria additive will surely move the system through the cycle faster. Quote Link to comment
graftobny142 Posted June 30, 2017 Share Posted June 30, 2017 18 hours ago, blatzphemy said: I disagree, using the Bio Spira product I was able to cycle my tank extremely fast. I added ammonia several times and by the 5-6 day I was able to get the ammonia to drop to nothing within a 24h period. This would have never happened if I just let nature take it's course. My tank is not even two months old and extremely healthy despite the huge bioload. I have 5 large tangs, two huge eels, and various other fish like clowns in blennys. Yesterday I added several colonies of SPS and they are doing well. Before this I added a few small colonies around a month ago and I can already see decent growth. Check out my Pond Matrix experiment. I believe the bacteria additive was a key component.https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/putting-pond-matrix-to-the-test-now-that-marinepure-is-out.310313/page-4#post-3837383 Besides all these accounts look at how successful the KZ tanks are. The ZeoBak is the backbone of that system. Most of this bacteria replicates slowly 10-20hours. I bacteria additive will surely move the system through the cycle faster. You are right that it will speed up the process, but that is about all it will do. My cycle was only ~10 days and I only used ammonia solution and dry rock. I see a lot of people buying it because they think it is necessary to get the bacteria in their tank. I should have tailored the comment more toward that group. Quote Link to comment
Christopher Marks Posted June 27, 2018 Share Posted June 27, 2018 Hey @blatzphemy, is your lagoon reef still up and running? I'd love to see how far it has come along this year, I hope you can check in with us! 👋 Quote Link to comment
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