Cycling nano tank strange results so far

[Recci]

I am an experienced fresh water fish keeper and this is my first attempt at a salt water tank. Im setting up a dirt cheap 22L nano tank and i am currently in the middle of cycling it with live rock. 

I normally cycle my fresh water tanks using pure ammonia. The process is pretty simple and I thought id look into doing the same with the nano reef tank.

 

I set up my nano reef with live rock and pre-mixed salt water from a LFS. I placed a small bit of shrimp in the tank set my lights on an 8 hour a day timer and waited a week and there was no signs of life on the live rock or in the tank so I added 500g of live sand from an established system and a few drops of ammonia. After another week the tank was starting to become covered with brown algae this continued and I have started to get thick green algae and even red algae spots on the sand. I had read that the lights were meant to be on during the cycling process but then other threads on here say it should be off.

 

I realised that its probably due to the lighting that the algae problem has got so bad so I stopped the lights and its died back a bit but not gone. I tested the water with the api test kit and got no trace of ammonia, nitrite or nitrate.  So i accidentally dumped a big does of ammonia into the tank but after 3 or 4 days its gone and there is also no trace of nitrite or nitrate WTF??  In a fresh water tank if the ammonia was gone and there was no trace of nitrite you would expect a strong nitrate reading at this point. You would call the cycle done, do water change and add fish but i am confused here where is the nitrate? This is not following the normal process of ammonia readings, then nitrite and then nitrate.

 

The tank has only been cycling for about 3 and half weeks at this point.

There is no protein skimmer I am just using a heater, hang on the back filter and small power-head for flow.

Live rock and small amount of live sand were added. 

The pre-mixed salt water had a very low salinity of around 1.016 but i have gradually brought it up to 1.024

I am using RO-water to mix with kent marine salt. 

 

So my questions are should I have the lights on or off and if off then surly I am just delaying the algae bloom till after the cycle? 

Whats going on with those ammonia and nitrate readings surly the cycle cant be finished already and also have grown nitrate eating bacteria? 

 

When will I know its time to add the clean up crew? 

[Weetabix7]

Definitely leave the lights off. 

 

I would suggest taking some of your water to a local store and see if they can test it for you to verify the results you are getting. 

If they verify 0 ammonia and 0 nitrite, then add a clean up crew. 

 

You have no need for light until you have something in there that is photosynthesizing, such as Coral or Macroalgae. 

[Recci]

I am quite confident in the test kit, I am currently cycling afresh water tank at the moment also and I get clear readings using the same kit. 

[Clown79]

You didn't need to add a shrimp or dose ammonia with liverock. Liverock alone will cycle the tank and if it was "cured" then there may be little to no cycle.

 

Your bloom of algae is due to the shrimp, the decay causes nutrient issue in the tank and lighting the tank during cycling aided the algae.

 

The normal process for cycling salt water is

 

Liverock cycling- add the rocks and sand test every day to monitor levels because it can be quick to cycle.

 

Dry rock cycling- add the rocks, sand, and dose specific amounts of ammonia and bacteria while testing daily.

[Recci]

So you would say my tank has cycled ?  

I am not sure what cured live rock actually means? The live rock i got had no visible signs of life on it apart from a few dried out looking tubes, I expected hitch hikers and stuff and was disappointing when there was nothing. I assumed it was poor quality live rock but what your saying is it must have been cured live rock? 

 

So if its cycled add clean up crew? And what do I do about the algae? 

 

Also what should I get as a clean up crew bearing in minds its only a 22L nano cube? How many snails, hermit crabs ect..

[bofo]

My 29g tank cycled in 4 days with fully cured rock and live sand. I did what you did and added ammonia to 2ppm twice in a row. Both times, it was gone in 24 hours.

 

if you want you can test the ammonia a day after dosing ammonia to be sure; it's what I did.

 

http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-cycling-tank-bacteria-and-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

 

here is a great write-up by @brandon429

 

they explain what's happening when the cycle goes so fast! It helped me out a lot.

 

As for my personal opinion on clean up crew, hermits and turbos. In a 22 I would start with a turbo snail and 7-9 hermits.

 

edit: eh probably start with like 5 hermits can always add more

[Clown79]

Was the rock dry when you purchased it or wet?

[Recci]

It was wet, I know what live rock is just not sure about the cured part.

 

Should i be seeing nitrates though? Or is it normal for nitrates to be consumed with cured rock 

[Recci]

1 hour ago, bofo said:

My 29g tank cycled in 4 days with fully cured rock and live sand. I did what you did and added ammonia to 2ppm twice in a row. Both times, it was gone in 24 hours.

 

if you want you can test the ammonia a day after dosing ammonia to be sure; it's what I did.

 

http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-cycling-tank-bacteria-and-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

 

here is a great write-up by @brandon429

 

they explain what's happening when the cycle goes so fast! It helped me out a lot.

 

As for my personal opinion on clean up crew, hermits and turbos. In a 22 I would start with a turbo snail and 7-9 hermits.

 

edit: eh probably start with like 5 hermits can always add more

Did you see any spike in nitrates after the ammonia was gone?

[brandon429]

its nice to know you simply don't have to test for nitrites and nitrate in the cycling reef tank, consider that option from the thread as well. the reason you may not see nitrate:

-offgassing though this is rare

-uptake by that algae you mention

-test kit limitations for the levels in question

-some other ones we may be missing

 

nitrate is only for algae management it doesn't matter in tank cycling as we covered only ammonia matters. once ammonia digestion occurs, nitrate as a rule also occurs but we may not detect it for whatever reason. the only param needed to know in marine tank cycling is ammonia + a known time the system has been underwater which yours meets. im reading that through your chain of command in getting the rocks, its been wet and underwater long before you got it right?

 

The #1 reason we only test for ammonia in that thread above is so that we don't have test results from three different params pulling us in many directions when only one of the params matters, the other two literally do no matter in saltwater cycling though nitrite testing is very important in freshwater. its totally useless info in saltwater settings. anytime we encounter a supposed nitrite issue in reefing, its really just an ammonia issue and in nearly every case it was a nitrite test misread or adulterated test because someone used prime before taking the trite measurement.

[Recci]

That makes sense i guess, Im trying to compare it to fresh water cycling too much. The live rock came out of a large tank of live rock from a well known LFS so I can only assume it was in their a while. It was similar to the group A, the unverified gray no visual life barren rocks in that thread you linked

[Recci]

I added 

a couple more bits of live rock to the tank and the start of the clean up crew 2 turbo snails and two blue legged hermit crabs. 

 

Here are some pics of the various stages of tank set up.

 

 

This is what the live rock looked like when i got it. The last pic is what its like now.

 

[Recci]

Anybody got advice on what I should be looking to stock this tank with? I read that really should only have 1 hermit crab and 1 turbo snail pert 50l which would me I am already over stocked on those.  I plan to add a few more smaller snails and a shrimp or two before moving onto hardy corals .

 

Also I have notice this smooth sort of slimy stuff on some of my knew live rock? Any idea what this is? I have highlighted it in this picture:

 

 

[Recci]

I went back to the LFS that I got the original live rock from and got a few more bits of reef rubble. Looking good now. He told me it's all cured and ready to go straight into a tank so I guess that explains why it cycled so fast! 

[Recci]

Looks like that stuff on the live rock was something to do with a hitchhiker. Looks like Iv got myself a feather duster.

[brandon429]

neat. from that emergence, we know fully that nitrifying bacteria occupy the rock that worm is adhere to via order of operations for biological deposition on the reef. any rock with a single spot of coralline meets the same description too, provided its real coralline 

 

 

[Recci]

all real live rock seem quite good quality. it poped out when i put some plankton feeder stuff in the water. Only seen it briefly before that. 

[Recci]

I have noticed my alkalinity is quite low. Its 5 drops on the api kh test to turn yellow. I don't understand why it's low. Shouldn't the salt mix just deal with this? I am using Kent marine salt and after freshly mixing it. The alk is only 1.5 dkh. With another undesolved white stuff on the bottom. Should I be worrying about this? 

[Clown79]

Are you prestirring the salt to distribute it before using it?

 

Kent has some reviews of low alk.

 

You have to test you newly mixed saltwater to determine what its at.

 

If you have to drops to get to yellow, thats 5dkh- still low.

 

Could be the salt.

[Recci]

I thought it  was 1drop is 1 dkh? Or is that fresh water? I just checked it again after leaving it a few hours and adding 1 ml of salifert all in one to 4 litres. its now 6 or 7 drops before it turns yellow. I stirred the salt slowing into a bucket and left if for a 5 or 6 hours.

[Recci]

Seem to have some vermit snails as hitch hiker as well 

[Clown79]

What salt are you using?

[Recci]

kent marine

[Clown79]

It may just be the salt brand.

Kent lost their reputation with salt a few yrs back due to a bad batch.

 

You may want to contact them because 5dkh is pretty low and its the salt thats mixing at that. You would need to dose your new salt water and test it everyrime sand then once you start adding corals and they consume elements, you will need to dose then too.

 

Its just more efficient, less confusing, and less costly to use a salt that provides the correct parameters

[Recci]

I have Salifert all in one to dose with but I think you are right.  What salt would you recommend? I was thinking of going with red sea, Not sure if i should get their standard salt or the coral pro salt? 

Also I think my bag of kent salt is a bad bag everything i mix it there is a lot of undissolved white stuff left over. Even if I mix slowly into warm water. Even tried boiling the water to get it do dissolve no joy.