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EUREKA! Stalled cycle? Fluval Evo 13.5


dandelion

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3 hours ago, Nixperience said:

Break those rocks open. There's probably a dead animal encased inside them. 

Lol!

 

11 hours ago, dandelion said:

But I also want to find out what's wrong!

I've used Fritzyme and Bio-Spira with great success.  A new bottle should smell like mud/dirt.  If it smells anything like sewage, it's bad.

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Simulated Fish
5 hours ago, moosubi said:

I've used Fritzyme and Bio-Spira with great success.  A new bottle should smell like mud/dirt.  If it smells anything like sewage, it's bad.

 

Micobacter7 has a odd sent, kind musky, but not like waste or rot.

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Just now, Hippieheadshot said:

 

Micobacter7 has a odd sent, kind musky, but not like waste it rot.

Yeah, exactly that, prolly the same.  Smells like mud.  I had a bottle of fritz that smelled like raw sewage, returned that bad boy.

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2 hours ago, moosubi said:

Yeah, exactly that, prolly the same.  Smells like mud.  I had a bottle of fritz that smelled like raw sewage, returned that bad boy.

It smells kind of vinegary to me.

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19 hours ago, Clown79 said:

I think lfs confirmed the test results.

 

Honestly have never seen this occur before. Its very odd.

Without going back and looking, wasn't the LFS using API or test strips?

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4 hours ago, 1891Bro said:

Without going back and looking, wasn't the LFS using API or test strips?

 

13 minutes ago, Clown79 said:

Not sure to be honest.

I know I read that recently but not sure if this thread, or even this forum tbh. 

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brandon429

Dandelion that was amazing input on the ammonia in the bottle bac

 

I must get a smell report pls!! a quarter of that much true free ammonia will smell like a rotten skunk. per your reported levels it should smell like nuclear death and the water will be cloudy, its impossible for it to be clear with living organisms dying from that high of a level

 

you piqued my interest on non test kit ammonia verification, how bad does that mb7 smell, and how clear is the fluid. api still suspect for me. not for bad reporting, but including various forms of ammonia as red zone when indeed they may not be, pending sniffer results.

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Simulated Fish
8 minutes ago, brandon429 said:

Dandelion that was amazing input on the ammonia in the bottle bac

 

I must get a smell report pls!! a quarter of that much true free ammonia will smell like a rotten skunk. per your reported levels it should smell like nuclear death and the water will be cloudy, its impossible for it to be clear with living organisms dying from that high of a level

 

you piqued my interest on non test kit ammonia verification, how bad does that mb7 smell, and how clear is the fluid. api still suspect for me. not for bad reporting, but including various forms of ammonia as red zone when indeed they may not be, pending sniffer results.

 

 

It's not a bad smell, definitely not like cleaning a cat box stink, which is what I think of when I think ammonia. The micobacter7 is a cloudy but clear liquid.

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brandon429

if they are using raw ammonia in the bottle as a food source for the bac then Id predict mb7 has a much shorter shelf life than other nitrifiers who are just in dormancy in basically clean water/zero smell or cloud.

 

though I don't use mb7 the descriptions so far sound like a very active mix of live and not dormant cells~in loaded water.

 

what I find neat is that we can use mb7 to outcompete cyano, because it must have inclusions beyond just simple nitrifiers though they can also be mixed in with whatever aerobes they are using, but we can't use pure nitrifier strain additives to battle cyano. that mb7 is neat stuff.  going off the details it sounds like a neat combo product if people are cycling with it too.

 

I cannot believe the test is accurate for that high of a ppm, though it could be the form of ammonia in question, perhaps this is an unimpactful form of ammonia in that bottle though I don't know what form that would be (need chemists)  

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Simulated Fish

@brandon429 not to side rail but is the cyno claim true? Once my tanks cycled I never used it after but I am currently having a mild and slow burn cyno issue in my tank. I always assumed it was marketing BS.

 

As far as cycling micobacter7 is the only thing I use.

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brandon429

I don't use it but for sure I rate it as a potential cyano outcompeter. we had tons of people abandon using peroxide in our peroxide threads and take to MB7 instead and they posted better results.

 

its not 100% or people wouldn't use anything else on cyano, im only going off the repeating patterns from seeing hundreds of peroxide attempts for cyano and the alternates they chose like margarita snails, UV and dosers like mb7 that were marketed to outcompete cyano. based on that ammonia its certainly different than just regular nitrifier liquids and presumably way more active. not surprising knowing it has that much feed it in, never knew that till today.

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5 hours ago, brandon429 said:

I don't use it but for sure I rate it as a potential cyano outcompeter. we had tons of people abandon using peroxide in our peroxide threads and take to MB7 instead and they posted better results.

 

its not 100% or people wouldn't use anything else on cyano, im only going off the repeating patterns from seeing hundreds of peroxide attempts for cyano and the alternates they chose like margarita snails, UV and dosers like mb7 that were marketed to outcompete cyano. based on that ammonia its certainly different than just regular nitrifier liquids and presumably way more active. not surprising knowing it has that much feed it in, never knew that till today.

What I should do when I go home is to test the amount of niTRATE in my mb7. That should answer a lot of questions on whether the ammonia is used as a food source for the bacteria. The best way obviously would be to do a gram stain on the product. But I do not have access to a microscope or crystal violet/safranin dyes.

 

As far as I know API test tests for total ammonia (free ammonia NH3 and ammonium NH4+), but the ratio of the two conjugates are based on pH so no matter what you are still putting ammonia in, albeit a small amount.

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I tested nitrate. Here are the results:

 

FF995B20-7F7F-4789-AF87-47101732170B_zps

I know you would ask why bother with the API test. That's because most people don't like API test for its low resolution. I figured I would first just test 2.5mL to see if it turns red before using 16mL for a higher resolution test. Anyways, here's the result of RedSea test:

 

5586DEE8-8C58-4472-9D81-C0FBFFB4A539_zps

 

I think it is safe to conclude that MB7 contains little to none nitrate.

 

Now it begs the questions:

1. Is the ammonia test giving me a false positive?

2. If not, then what the heck is that ammonia doing in the bottle?

3. If MB7 really contains nitrifying bacteria, why is there no nitrate from all that ammonia?

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17 minutes ago, dandelion said:

I tested nitrate. Here are the results:

 

FF995B20-7F7F-4789-AF87-47101732170B_zps

I know you would ask why bother with the API test. That's because most people don't like API test for its low resolution. I figured I would first just test 2.5mL to see if it turns red before using 16mL for a higher resolution test. Anyways, here's the result of RedSea test:

 

5586DEE8-8C58-4472-9D81-C0FBFFB4A539_zps

 

I think it is safe to conclude that MB7 contains little to none nitrate.

 

Now it begs the questions:

1. Is the ammonia test giving me a false positive?

2. If not, then what the heck is that ammonia doing in the bottle?

3. If MB7 really contains nitrifying bacteria, why is there no nitrate from all that ammonia?

1. My money is on yes. 

2. See answer one. 

3. Only answerable if two has a different conclusion. 

4. Ditch API tests... er, uhh, nevermind. 

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I must say I really don't understand why this forum lectures API = shit. It is true that their nitrate and phosphate kits do not provide the resolution we need, but that doesn't mean all of their products are bad. In fact, I bet even their phosphate and nitrate kits are accurate--just not precise enough. As I have stated multiple times, when I do my ammonia tests, I use a control tube containing water from a mature tank. Tests after adding ammonia also give a positive result. I think that speaks volume as to the accuracy of the test, even if it is qualitative but not quantitative.

 

I'm not saying I'm sure those tests on MB7 are not false positive. We should just back our conclusions on experiment results or at least scientifically sound theories instead of API = crap.

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23 minutes ago, dandelion said:

I must say I really don't understand why this forum lectures API = shit. It is true that their nitrate and phosphate kits do not provide the resolution we need, but that doesn't mean all of their products are bad. In fact, I bet even their phosphate and nitrate kits are accurate--just not precise enough. As I have stated multiple times, when I do my ammonia tests, I use a control tube containing water from a mature tank. Tests after adding ammonia also give a positive result. I think that speaks volume as to the accuracy of the test, even if it is qualitative but not quantitative.

 

I'm not saying I'm sure those tests on MB7 are not false positive. We should just back our conclusions on experiment results or at least scientifically sound theories instead of API = crap.

My opinion = API is shit

i also, lol, definitely do not speak for the forum. 

But you'll find my opinion is shared across many different sources. 

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17 minutes ago, 1891Bro said:

My opinion = API is shit

i also, lol, definitely do ot speak for the forum. 

But you'll find my opinion is shared across many different sources. 

API maybe shit. I'm not singing praises for their tests. We should not just blame everything on their tests and draw conclusions without supporting evidence. This reminds me of a doctor who tried to discount my mom's intraoccular pressure results from her optometrist as "inaccurate" without even thinking for a second. If I hadn't pressed for a referral (oh and she kept fighting back) my mother could be blind now.

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1 minute ago, dandelion said:

API maybe shit. I'm not singing praises for their tests. We should not just blame everything on their tests and draw conclusions without supporting evidence. This reminds me of a doctor who tried to discount my mom's intraoccular pressure results from her optometrist as "inaccurate" without even thinking for a second. If I hadn't pressed for a referral (oh and she kept fighting back) my mother could be blind now.

I don't disagree. What other tests have you used?

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Simulated Fish

I love API test. Quick, cheep, and accurate enough for me to know if there is a problem. I honestly don't test unless there is a red flag in the tank, I don't chase prams - only happy livestock. :)

 

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16 hours ago, dandelion said:

I must say I really don't understand why this forum lectures API = shit. It is true that their nitrate and phosphate kits do not provide the resolution we need, but that doesn't mean all of their products are bad. In fact, I bet even their phosphate and nitrate kits are accurate--just not precise enough. As I have stated multiple times, when I do my ammonia tests, I use a control tube containing water from a mature tank. Tests after adding ammonia also give a positive result. I think that speaks volume as to the accuracy of the test, even if it is qualitative but not quantitative.

 

I'm not saying I'm sure those tests on MB7 are not false positive. We should just back our conclusions on experiment results or at least scientifically sound theories instead of API = crap.

 

Preach it!!

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