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EUREKA! Stalled cycle? Fluval Evo 13.5


dandelion

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I'm at a loss here. Ammonia was dosed 5 days ago and it's still like this. These rocks have been under water for close to 6 months now. Should I toss them out and start fresh?????

 

FA628633-447E-4D3F-8611-6BE1AC938D3E_zps

Right tube is control. It's water from an established tank.

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6 minutes ago, Nixperience said:

WTF. Just weird. 

 

I agree, this is really, really strange to me. 

I don't know what is causing this, but if I were in your shoes I'd restart with new rock, yes. 

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I'm wondering if somehow some other bacteria is occupying a majority of the surface such that nitrifying bacteria got outcompeted. I may be able to restart by draining the tank letting it dry out for a few days then restart. Sigh this tank was supposed to be up and running in January, February latest.

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4 minutes ago, dandelion said:

I believe I have found the culprit. This is the test results of my bottle of microbacter7:

983FA30D-9321-40C0-8575-7E008548C386_zps

 

It explains so many things, from the stalled cycle to algae bloom in my pico. Lessons learned? Limit your additives to the essentials, or test them before use.

@brandon429 @Clown79 @Nixperience @SaltyBuddha @holy carp @1891Bro @Weetabix7

Someone else chime in, not so sure those tests are gonna be useful at all on bottled bacteria. I dunno. 

Even if the bottled bac was 2.0ppm ammonia it would be significantly diluted once you added and perfect food for the bacteria to consume. I really don't know. 

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Nixperience
4 minutes ago, 1891Bro said:

Someone else chime in, not so sure those tests are gonna be useful at all on bottled bacteria. I dunno. 

Even if the bottled bac was 2.0ppm ammonia it would be significantly diluted once you added and perfect food for the bacteria to consume. I really don't know. 

True, but if the ammonia content is that high, the bacteria in that bottle is surely dead. 

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2 minutes ago, Nixperience said:

True, but if the ammonia content is that high, the bacteria in that bottle is surely dead. 

Doesn't matter, as long as those rocks have been submerged the bacteria would've already found a way in naturally and been consuming it. And I don't think the tests were meant to be used on that anyway. 

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1 minute ago, Nixperience said:

True, but if the ammonia content is that high, the bacteria in that bottle is surely dead. 

 

6 minutes ago, 1891Bro said:

Someone else chime in, not so sure those tests are gonna be useful at all on bottled bacteria. I dunno. 

Even if the bottled bac was 2.0ppm ammonia it would be significantly diluted once you added and perfect food for the bacteria to consume. I really don't know. 

I think the reading was closing to 4ppm maybe 6ppm.

 

I do agree that it should've been heavily diluted out in a tank of 11.6 gallon water volume (44000mL). 5 mL of 6ppm will be diluted down to like 0.0007ppm. Anyhow let's play the game of elimination here. I'll stop dosing and see what happens.

2 minutes ago, 1891Bro said:

Doesn't matter, as long as those rocks have been submerged the bacteria would've already found a way in naturally and been consuming it. And I don't think the tests were meant to be used on that anyway. 

I don't think there's any problem using the test on a bottle of additive. The test should be specific enough to test for nitrate only. Don't forget seawater has so many different kinds of organics and inorganics.

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Simulated Fish

I have used micobacter7 on all of my tanks for what it is worth, I just started a new one with it. Rinsed and dead sand, Reef Cleaners Rock - dead. And have had no issue other a back bloom from overdosing, at this point I just eyeball it since I have used it so much.

 

You might have got a bad batch? I can test mine tomorrow and see if ammonia is like that. How did you test it?

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13 minutes ago, Hippieheadshot said:

I have used micobacter7 on all of my tanks for what it is worth, I just started a new one with it. Rinsed and dead sand, Reef Cleaners Rock - dead. And have had no issue other a back bloom from overdosing, at this point I just eyeball it since I have used it so much.

 

You might have got a bad batch? I can test mine tomorrow and see if ammonia is like that. How did you test it?

I might have had a bad batch, or somewhere during the supply chain it was exposed to extreme temperatures that the bacteria died and decayed into ammonia. I tested 1.25ml of it with 2 drops from each bottle of the API test kit (vs 5ml with 8 drops). Didn't want to waste too much in case I was wrong.

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Simulated Fish
20 minutes ago, dandelion said:

I might have had a bad batch, or somewhere during the supply chain it was exposed to extreme temperatures that the bacteria died and decayed into ammonia. I tested 1.25ml of it with 2 drops from each bottle of the API test kit (vs 5ml with 8 drops). Didn't want to waste too much in case I was wrong.

Testing now. Also using the api kit.

Edited by Hippieheadshot
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Simulated Fish

14955985448681279998600.thumb.jpg.7b34a06ca2455e3bdaa0b5b0e5ddae59.jpg

 

Looks like 1 - 2 ppm for me, followed instructions exactly as always.

 

My guess is the mix has a bit to begin with, plus die off. I opened this bottle about 2 weeks ago.

 

Exp date in mine is 021119

@dandelion

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Hmmm so that might not be it. That said I'm not entirely sure about putting ammonia-rich additives into a cycling tank, or any tank at all.

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Just now, Squared said:

Why not get some live rock/sand/water change gunk from your LFS? Trying to minimize introduction of pests?

But I also want to find out what's wrong!

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Simulated Fish

 

I really doubt there is any harm, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it is there on purpose. The ammonia traces might be there to feed the bacteria, die off is impossible to avoid so it may be a self feeding cycle. 

 

Just out of curiosity have you agitated the sand bed? Maybe there is something in it feeding your issue?

 

Also have you tested straight water?

 

And a big one, do you rinse your kit vials and dropper with fresh tank water before the test?

I have had tests be quite off because of dried tap residue.

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I have always wondered if the continued dosing of ammonia will kill off bacteria leading to a stalled cycle.

 

If it was me, I'd just use new liverock. 

At this point you may never find the cause.

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1 minute ago, Clown79 said:

I have always wondered if the continued dosing of ammonia will kill off bacteria leading to a stalled cycle.

 

If it was me, I'd just use new liverock. 

At this point you may never find the cause.

Only if it exceeded 5ppm, getting to the point where you actually kill the bacteria itself. 

Before dropping the money on rock dump the API tests, if you can confirm there is ammonia present with a more reliable test then start looking at other options. 

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6 hours ago, 1891Bro said:

Only if it exceeded 5ppm, getting to the point where you actually kill the bacteria itself. 

Before dropping the money on rock dump the API tests, if you can confirm there is ammonia present with a more reliable test then start looking at other options. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with the API tests. I did all my tests with a control tube of water from a mature tank. The differences are obvious. Look at the first picture on this page. I've also tested the water after dosing ammonia which shows green vs yellow.

 

7 hours ago, Hippieheadshot said:

 

I really doubt there is any harm, honestly I wouldn't be surprised if it is there on purpose. The ammonia traces might be there to feed the bacteria, die off is impossible to avoid so it may be a self feeding cycle. 

 

Just out of curiosity have you agitated the sand bed? Maybe there is something in it feeding your issue?

 

Also have you tested straight water?

 

And a big one, do you rinse your kit vials and dropper with fresh tank water before the test?

I have had tests be quite off because of dried tap residue.

Yes I rinse them. Like I said I do control tests too. and no I don't have a sand bed to agitate. It's a bare bottom tank.

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25 minutes ago, dandelion said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with the API tests. I did all my tests with a control tube of water from a mature tank. The differences are obvious. Look at the first picture on this page. I've also tested the water after dosing ammonia which shows green vs yellow.

 

Yes I rinse them. Like I said I do control tests too. and no I don't have a sand bed to agitate. It's a bare bottom tank.

 

Something unusual is going on, and I don't think you have anything to lose by restarting with fresh rock. 

I agree that it would be great to get to the source of what has been causing the problems. 

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