Multiple corals died/damaged overnight

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

Hello there. New user here specifically to ask you all about this.

 

I have a Coralife 32G LED Nano. Tanks been up for months. All livestock was doing great, regular maintenance was great, water params were always great.

 

The lights go off in the tank last night at 10PM. Everything in the tank before this looked just like it always did. Everything was fine. Today, checking in on it at 2PM, my frogspawn (which was my even my happiest and fullest looking coral), my hammer with 3 heads, and an acan look completely awful. They all look mostly dead/shed their polyps. Now, for the other corals I have in there. Two zoa frags, neither are damaged but are somewhat closed up. Another larger single head hammer which is completely closed up. Two other acans that seem fine. And then a Captain America which seems fine, but the two Purple Hornet polyps growing in them are closed up. 

 

Obviously I tested water params. No power outages, temp swings, salinity swings. All params were perfect and salinity is right at 1.026 like always. Tank temp stays at 79 with a third-of-a-degree max variation.

 

I'm just trying to find the cause here since it seems it was something other than water. I'll detail you what I did in the last few days that were changes to my tank:

 

-Added the Captain America's and Three-head hammer. Bought second-hand. Everything looked good

-8 gallon regular water change as normal. Everything looked fine after this as usual.

-Added 1 Astrea snail, 1 Turbo Snail, 1 Cerith Snail. Brushed all their shells.

-Yesterday, turned down the Tunze head a smidge since the hammers and acans seemed to not like the large flow. Once turned down, both became even fuller.

 

That's it. The other livestock I have in my tank currently is a bicolor blenny, peppermint shrimp, skunk cleaner shrimp, 4 astreas, 2 nerites (which have layed eggs), and 5 red-legged hermits. All are doing good as usual.

 

So, I'm just trying to troubleshoot this. Seems the most likely cause is something coming out at night and stressing them out by picking at them or eating them.

 

Any ideas?

 

Thanks

 

 

[Weetabix7]

Did you dip either of the new corals before adding them?

 

You said you added a Hammer coral. Is it touching any of the others?

Have you watched to see if it is putting out long feeder tentacles that might be stinging neighbors?

 

The Acans that seem fine, are they off by themselves or are they close to the other irritated LPS?

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

Did not dip the new corals. Guy was reputable and last time I dipped I had an ammonia spike. I get them with a turkey baster and shake em off as good as I can, though. I know that's not preferred, but for right now I admit that is what I do.

 

The hammer coral, and all my corals are still basically frags. They're all a good deal away from each other. Stinging definitely not a cause.

 

As for the acans that are fine, the closest acan to that frogspawn as actually fine. The acan in the sand is the one that's beaten up, and that one's second in distance compared to the third which is also fine. So no real correlation in distance. The frogspawn and hammer are on opposite sides of the tank.

 

They looked flaky. Like something was chewing on em. Not really discolored or brown looking at all, but kind of beaten up, stringy, and flaky.

 

Could any livestock be doing this? Or a pest maybe?

[Weetabix7]

I have caught Peppermint Shrimp in the act of eating LPS corals, so that's a possibility. 

If that is the cause, it could be fixed by removing the Pep and I've found that damaged LPS heal well if dipped in lugol's iodine. 

1 cup tankwater, 1-2 drops lugol's, 3-5 minutes. 

It's pretty strange to me that you would have had an ammonia spike after dipping corals. I don't think you're making it up, I'm just wondering if maybe the dip killed a pest that was inside some rock that the dipped corals were on and it's decomposing tissue caused the spike. 

I've been dipping for years and never had that happen.

The other possibility that occurred to me is that some kind of pest may have hitchhiked in on the new frags and was munching on the corals. 

That's why I asked if you dipped the new stuff. 

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

Yeah, first time I dipped I was suggested to use Bayer, and I thought it seemed kind of sketchy and then when I had that slight ammonia spike I was like "nope, no more of this".

 

I will observe the pep today and tonight and see what I can find. Thanks for the iodine recommendation.

 

Funny enough I have a QT tank set up with no meds or anything, just clean tank water that's been running for months as well. Transferred the frogspawn and the hammer to the QT, and the frogspawn is already looking better. 

[Weetabix7]

Hmm, interesting. 

Keep us updated, if you don't mind. 

 

I know several who have successfully used Bayer, although I haven't done it myself. 

I personally keep CoralRx and lugols on hand for dips, and 35% food grade peroxide for spot-killing of pest algae, that's it. 

[RayWhisperer]

You say parameters are "perfect" yet you've listed nothing but temp and salinity. How bout the rest, so we have something to work with?

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

0 nitrates, 0 ammonia, 0 phosphates, etc.

 

Researching more it seems it may very well be the peppermint. Story after story of ones going after frogspawns and acans. It's certainly not a camelback but it may be one of the non-reef-safe varieties that look similar to peppermints. I'll see if I can catch him in the act but if the corals keep getting busted up, I'm going to move him to another tank for a bit and see if anything changes.

 

And the pep's antennae looked a little damaged. Might've gotten stung trying to go at them.

[RayWhisperer]

What about calcium and alkalinity?

 

I agree, peps could be the issue, as they have always been problematic in my experience. However, you've not witnessed any shrimp assulting  the coral. Add to that, you report the corals in the quarantine tank already look better. That points to water more than shrimp.

 

i also doubt your reads of 0's on nitrates and phosphates. I'd ask what test kits were used? And IF they are both at 0 using reliable test kits, that's a problem as well.

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

I'm actually kind of the second-in-command of this tank, and the "boss" says calcium and alkalinity reset after a water change which we just did.

 

Anyways, using the API Saltwater Master Liquid Test Kit. Can't get an exact reading, but yes, from the color, all of those were close to zero.

 

Anyways, been told the salt I use (Seachem Reef Salt) and regular water changes keep those in check so I do not have tests for calcium, alk, magnesium, pH.

[RayWhisperer]

Ok, with the API, a 0 read makes sense. They are not very accurate, so we can assume both are in the low range. Plenty good enough for LPS.

 

As for cal and alk being reset by a water change. Well, it just doesn't work that way unless you are doing 100% water changes. It can be enough of a makeup to get by with. However, considering you've got several carbonate consuming corals in a volume in the 30 gallon neighborhood, I'm still suspicious of the cal and alk. Plus, this all seems to have taken place after your latest addition. This points to either a pest, or you've just reached the point where the volume of water you are changing isn't enough to make up the difference.

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

Well, the destruction of these corals happened in 14 hours or less. Looked solid before that. I don't see how an underlying problem in the water could take them out that quickly. Not ruling that out like you said, but just using reasoning it seems it's probably a pest or my shrimp

 

Nonetheless, I will make sure to get a test kit for alk and cal. My dad, who is the in charge of this tank, does things the old-fashioned way since we've had tanks for a long time and haven't run into too many problems the way we've done things. I happen to be very OCD, so I try to pick up the slack on what's going on, hence why I'm on here. And I know new comprehensive methods to get complete control over your tank are out there, so I would like to use them.

 

What would you recommend for a cal/alk test kit? Any other test kits for nitrate/nitrite/ammonia/phosphate that won't cause me to break the bank?

 

Thanks for your help guys. 

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

So, plan of action right now is ordering a cal/alk kit, then I'm gonna go ahead and trap the peppermint and put him in another tank.

 

The frogspawn and hammer are in that other tank and will be moved back. The frogspawn is badly damaged, but isn't closed up anymore. The hammer is still fully closed. I really want to save the hammer since it is a vertical structure with a head on top and two on the sides. 

[Weetabix7]

I would strongly advise a dip in lugol's to save the damaged ones, it will help to heal them. 

It also isn't nearly as harsh as Bayer. 

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

Is that the type of thing you buy through a reef store or where can you find it?

[Weetabix7]

You can get it from a Reef Store. 

I actually got mine from Amazon, lol. 

 

[RayWhisperer]

Lugols should be available at just about any reef store worth their salt. Going by your screen name, I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you are in the Chicago area. I can guarantee you Old Town, or any of the other high end stores there will have it.

 

For a quality test kit, I always go with Salifert.

[ReefSafeSolutions]

Instability in alkalinity can nuke your corals in much shorter than 14 hours, I've seen it happen to my previous tank...I'd certainly keep cal/alk high on the suspect list.

[yungKitten]

1 hour ago, RayWhisperer said:

 I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess you are in the Chicago area.

Lmao, one can only hope. Glad to see I'm not the only one who picked up on that.

[Clown79]

8 gal waterchanges weekly seems a lot. That can lead to major fluctuations in parameters which can shock the corals.

 

Problems may appear to occur overnight but corals can "get by" for a while before presenting issues.

 

Testing alk, ca, and mag is essential.

 

Nitrates being 0 is rare. I find the api kit unreliable and too hard to determine for nitrates.

 

Phos, I always get 0 with every kit i've used unless i add some sand to the test.

Salifert kit is the best, api is high range.

 

Waterchanges replenish the elements but during the week they are consumed, causing these elements to drop. Thats where dosing has to be done(determining daily consumption is necessary, no blind dosing)

 

So if your corals are consuming alk and ca, thats causing drops then a big 8gal waterchange can cause a big spike, this happening weekly will eventually cause issues.

 

Example.

 

You do a waterchange, your alk is 8 and ca is 400.

Corals start using it up, 4 days after your alk could be down to 6 and ca down to 360 or even lower.

Then you do an 8 gal waterchange and bam you have a huge spike back to 8 and 400.

 

Peppermint shrimps, i never recommend. They love chomping on corals. 

[BearsHawksSoxBulls]

Thanks for the tips, guys. And I also misspoke. It is usually not an 8 gallon water change. I meant to say we do do regular weekly water changes. Usually 5 gallons.

 

An update: I've transferred the peppermint to another tank. The frogspawn is back in the main tank and looks fully recovered. It looks really good. The hammer, however, was releasing some stuff in the other tank while it was in there, and I can't see any polyps remaining. They were real tiny polyps to begin with so maybe they are just fully closed in. Hopefully it has remnants of something left.

 

Btw I'm in central Illinois. Nearest reef shop is an hour away. Used to have 3 in our town but all closed.

 

edit: Here is a (not so good) pic of the frogspawn taken 1 minute ago. 24 hours ago it was brown and flaky so I'm pretty happy about this.

[Weetabix7]

That's looking not too bad!!

Hopefully the Hammer improves. 

[aviator300]

On ‎3‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 0:33 AM, Clown79 said:

8 gal waterchanges weekly seems a lot. That can lead to major fluctuations in parameters which can shock the corals.

 

Problems may appear to occur overnight but corals can "get by" for a while before presenting issues.

 

Testing alk, ca, and mag is essential.

 

Nitrates being 0 is rare. I find the api kit unreliable and too hard to determine for nitrates.

 

Phos, I always get 0 with every kit i've used unless i add some sand to the test.

Salifert kit is the best, api is high range.

 

Waterchanges replenish the elements but during the week they are consumed, causing these elements to drop. Thats where dosing has to be done(determining daily consumption is necessary, no blind dosing)

 

So if your corals are consuming alk and ca, thats causing drops then a big 8gal waterchange can cause a big spike, this happening weekly will eventually cause issues.

 

Example.

 

You do a waterchange, your alk is 8 and ca is 400.

Corals start using it up, 4 days after your alk could be down to 6 and ca down to 360 or even lower.

Then you do an 8 gal waterchange and bam you have a huge spike back to 8 and 400.

 

Peppermint shrimps, i never recommend. They love chomping on corals. 

Maybe so, but they got rid of several Aptasia in my tank literaly overnight.

[aviator300]

Did you happen to use a new mixing bucket or other equipt just before this happened. Something similar to this happened to me a year ago and I traced the problem to a residue of mold releasing fluid left in the new bucket after production.

[Clown79]

I'd rather use Aiptasia x and not loose $60 + in corals.

 

I lost 3 brains to 2 peppermints and they didn't touch the aips