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Anemone printing $! (Different tank) dandelion's Fluval 13.5


dandelion

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My setosa coral has been bleaching. It seems to have accelerated the past couple of days. I don't know if it is savable anymore. I have a couple frags of Setosa doing the same thing. Ones that are in the shade seems to be doing slightly better. I turned off the light and will keep it that way for like 2-3 days and see if it will get any better. :( Tank is probably too new for SPS.

 

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I am still using my stock lighting & hood, I had two monti frags bleach because they were about 3 inches from the black honeycomb line, all my other SPS are in the middle of the tank are doing fine. I honestly think the stock lighting is pretty good although I am planning on adding an actinic LED strip on a separate timer.

 

 

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45 minutes ago, Aquacrazed said:

I am still using my stock lighting & hood, I had two monti frags beach because they were about 3 inches from the black honeycomb line, all my other SPS are in the middle of the tank are doing fine. I honestly think the stock lighting is pretty good although I am planning on adding an actinic LED strip on a separate timer.

 

 

I agree with you that the stock lighting is good. Only downside is the lack of ability to program. 

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Hey Dandelion, I like what you've done with your EVO and sorry about the setosa/SPS troubles you are having.  You are the only post I've seen with a DIY media basket for the second chamber. How is that working out for you? I want to replace the stock sponge and media this weekend and was in need a good example for a media basket for chamber two. I am also running a skimmer in chamber one as well. How big is the piece of filter floss do you have against the chamber 1/2 wall? Thanks for your help!

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7 hours ago, TheBig053 said:

Hey Dandelion, I like what you've done with your EVO and sorry about the setosa/SPS troubles you are having.  You are the only post I've seen with a DIY media basket for the second chamber. How is that working out for you? I want to replace the stock sponge and media this weekend and was in need a good example for a media basket for chamber two. I am also running a skimmer in chamber one as well. How big is the piece of filter floss do you have against the chamber 1/2 wall? Thanks for your help!

It's working out rather well. The I put floss on the side and at the bottom of the two racks. The one on the top rack came out rather clean (which is expected), and the floss on the side and middle rack came out yellowish. Considering I have no fish or CUC (Hence no feeding) in the tank I am not expecting much gunk.

 

The side floss is about 6-7" long. It covers the top slot down to the second bottom slot. I couldn't get it down to the bottom slot because there's a "divider" in the 2nd chamber. An easy fix would be to block the bottom slot with a plastic card from the 1st chamber side. 

 

 

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makingfilms

In the second picture, it looks like you have tissue loss on your monti setosa frag. that frag appears to have some stn or rtn. I would check all your params and make sure it isn't something else. i have sps in the same tank and very small shifts in params in this tank seem to do damage quick.

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Saturday when I checked nitrate was at 0 and phosphate slightly high at 0.08 but not completely out of whack. Considering I don't have anything to feed in the tank I highly doubt it is a nutrient issue. Turning the light off seems to have halted the progression. After tonight I will do a slow ramp up of my light and see if it would recover. If not then well it's sad to say but I will have lost my most priced piece during the tank upgrade. 

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In regards to your setosa

That's not from nitrates or phos, that looks more like alk burn.

make sure that you alk hasn't changed rapidly, because my setosa did just that when i had an issue with my ATO.

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5 hours ago, Droy008 said:

In regards to your setosa

That's not from nitrates or phos, that looks more like alk burn.

make sure that you alk hasn't changed rapidly, because my setosa did just that when i had an issue with my ATO.

Did yours bounce back once your alk issue was solved?

 

I test my alk daily (except for last weekend when I was out of town) and I target for a dkh of 10 like I always had before the upgrade. The first week or so alk consumption was near zero so I didn't have to supplement any. Lately it's about 0.5-0.8 a day. I'll try shooting for an alk of 9 and see if it will do any better. I still have my light lowered significantly and increase back up slowly over 30 days.

 

I just made a DIY mesh lid for the tank. It's looking pretty good. :) The two clowns won't be committing suicide when they move into their new home. 

 

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That lid looks great! B)

 

I found that dkh of 10 was a tad too high for my sps. I try to keep it around 8-8.5, when it gets higher, I notice a slight bleaching with my SPS.

The only downside to a lower dkh so far as I've found, is that my SPS seem to grow slightly slower.

But it gives me more room for error.

 

Hope that helps.

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10 minutes ago, Droy008 said:

That lid looks great! B)

 

I found that dkh of 10 was a tad too high for my sps. I try to keep it around 8-8.5, when it gets higher, I notice a slight bleaching with my SPS.

The only downside to a lower dkh so far as I've found, is that my SPS seem to grow slightly slower.

But it gives me more room for error.

 

Hope that helps.

I agree dKH of 10 is slightly high. But then all my SPS has been thriving under this in the old tank so I figured I'll shoot for the same target to make the new environment as similar to the old as possible. I really hope it will bounce back because it is my most priced piece of coral. 

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I picked up a Hydor Centrifical Pump 300, the increase in flow is barely noticeable in the tank compared to the stock pump. The only real advantage is it's a smaller size so I can fit in my UV in that compartment a bit better. It's a $19 pump so I'm just gonna keep it.

 

I really think the stock kit overall is pretty good, Fluval did a good job. My only complaint is the hood, it's is really not practical at all. It's such a chore to open it up when you got to do some work on in the tank. I've had a few Fluval tanks before and they simply can't figure out how to build hoods.

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11 minutes ago, Aquacrazed said:

They are, but it's taking them quite sometime.

http://shop.mediabaskets.com/Fluval-Evo-12-135-Media-Basket-FL12MR.htm

 

Which UV are you using that would fit in there?

 

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Sooooo... Things deteriorated rapidly today. Water looked a little cloudy. My birdnest and some other corals that were doing fine all of a sudden started showing tissue loss. Alarmed by this, I pulled out my cycling test kit (aka API tests) and tested my water even though my ammonia alert still shows a safe yellow color. And guess what.... Ammonia is indeed zero, but nitrITE is deep purple on the API test, and nitrate is turning orange.

 

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I immediately transferred all corals into my other tanks. I still have a 6.25 Arc and a 29G standard FOWLR w/ anemones that I moved everything to. At least I am glad that I have some other established tanks as back up.

 

But then I have not really fed the tank very much. The only nitrogen-containing additive that I put into the tank would be AcroPower. I'm guessing the nitrITE came from ammonia from the die offs.

 

And surprisingly my LPS (alveopora, sugar cane)didn't seem to be bothered at all by the nitrITE except maybe the acan, although I think it's more because it wasn't getting enough light.

 

So here you go whoever that wrote the article stating nitrite in SW is not as toxic compared to nitrite in FW.... You are wrong.

 

I'm hoping now that the corals are rehoused they can get better again. ?

 

 

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Sorry to hear about the losses. :( Hopefully the corals you pulled can make a recovery. Something to consider would be keeping some seachem stability on hand for situations where you have some coral die off on a frag but wanna try to ride it out and see what happens. That way you can dose to mitigate the new ammonia coming from the die off.

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1 hour ago, tinyforest said:

Sorry to hear about the losses. :( Hopefully the corals you pulled can make a recovery. Something to consider would be keeping some seachem stability on hand for situations where you have some coral die off on a frag but wanna try to ride it out and see what happens. That way you can dose to mitigate the new ammonia coming from the die off.

I actually have been dosing microbacter 7 everyday. It could have helped if I also dosed prime, but I think chemicals are only going to take you so far.

 

2 hours ago, fishfreak0114 said:

Oh that sucks!  I hope they bounce back for you now that they're in nitrite free water :) 

 

The birdnest frags already looks better. The monti frag is having some polyps extensions back. The setosa, which is my most favorite SPS, still looks like crap. I'm hoping there won't be any RTN or STN that kicks in and kill everything.

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10 hours ago, dandelion said:

Sooooo... Things deteriorated rapidly today. Water looked a little cloudy. My birdnest and some other corals that were doing fine all of a sudden started showing tissue loss. Alarmed by this, I pulled out my cycling test kit (aka API tests) and tested my water even though my ammonia alert still shows a safe yellow color. And guess what.... Ammonia is indeed zero, but nitrITE is deep purple on the API test, and nitrate is turning orange.

 

62BCC010-E396-4FBA-BCC7-1737B1575E1A_zps

 

I immediately transferred all corals into my other tanks. I still have a 6.25 Arc and a 29G standard FOWLR w/ anemones that I moved everything to. At least I am glad that I have some other established tanks as back up.

 

But then I have not really fed the tank very much. The only nitrogen-containing additive that I put into the tank would be AcroPower. I'm guessing the nitrITE came from ammonia from the die offs.

 

And surprisingly my LPS (alveopora, sugar cane)didn't seem to be bothered at all by the nitrITE except maybe the acan, although I think it's more because it wasn't getting enough light.

 

So here you go whoever that wrote the article stating nitrite in SW is not as toxic compared to nitrite in FW.... You are wrong.

 

I'm hoping now that the corals are rehoused they can get better again. ?

 

 

That sucks.  Yeah, I had a QT tank because my DT had ich.  I come in and my tang is dead and three other fish are not looking so hot.  I do my normal testing and the only measurement that was off was nitrite.  I read everywhere that nitrite isn't that toxic but there was no other explanation.   The fish had completed Cupramine treatments two weeks earlier and were ich free. I was just waiting the fallow period for the DT.

 

I did a 100% change and the rest survived.  At least thats one good thing about tangs being sensitive.   He was my canary. I could have lost the others if he hadn't died so quickly. (My normal testing time wasnt for several more hours) 

 

I don't think I got the hidey holes as clean as they should have been and detritus had accumulated in the nooks and crannies. :( Now I keep double the amount of hidey holes so I can just switch them and carefully soak and clean them instead of feeling rushed.

 

i am sorry about your crash. :( At least you had other tanks to put survivors into.

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The nitrite isn't harmful, as online articles still show, but the lack of aged surface area and any feedings that weren't part of the system history sure can combine with tissue loss already documented to form a stress/loss event. clearly, some excess protein broke down in the tank somewhere, could be the water column. that's a low surface area setup per pics.

 

 

if I read correct you have sps specific losses and a few mentioned concerning params to you before the event if im reading correctly. sps loss isn't the same as a tank crash, the sps pictured here never started to lay on base mass as a nod that sps conditions were in place at any point in the build. 

 

 

So here you go whoever that wrote the article stating nitrite in SW is not as toxic compared to nitrite in FW.... You are wrong.

 

 

years of chemistry already online don't change with this stn event in your sps frags. 

 

 the pico forum has no trouble plating decorative bowls in sps and then trading frags out of the bowl using far less water and zero nitrite testing. the differences are lighting approach, feeding approach, and nutrient management approach but nitrite testing doesn't factor.

 

 

 

 ammonia testing is what matters and the same protein source that causes a nitrite spike has to first register as an ammonia one, if anything burned your corals it was that+ low active surface area. your cause/effect hunt should contain an ammonia search, which could have easily come and gone before you got out the api

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

 

 regarding nitrite

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Pjanssen said:

Good luck. I'm rooting for you and your corals. I'm having my own little crisis right now so I know how heartbreaking and frustrating it is.

 

16 hours ago, Nano sapiens said:

Sorry to see the losses.  Not an easy thing when a tank goes downhill...  

Thank you guys. It certainly isn't the happiest thing to see my SPS wasting away, I have to say I felt much worse when I lost my favorite clownfish. And economically saying, I didn't really spend very much money on those SPS when I got them as small frags, although it did took them a year to grow to today's size. I would have really cried if it's my zoas that are fading away like this. I spent way more money on them and I personally think they look more beautiful.

 

 

10 hours ago, lkoechle said:

That sucks.  Yeah, I had a QT tank because my DT had ich.  I come in and my tang is dead and three other fish are not looking so hot.  I do my normal testing and the only measurement that was off was nitrite.  I read everywhere that nitrite isn't that toxic but there was no other explanation.   The fish had completed Cupramine treatments two weeks earlier and were ich free. I was just waiting the fallow period for the DT.

 

I did a 100% change and the rest survived.  At least thats one good thing about tangs being sensitive.   He was my canary. I could have lost the others if he hadn't died so quickly. (My normal testing time wasnt for several more hours) 

 

I don't think I got the hidey holes as clean as they should have been and detritus had accumulated in the nooks and crannies. :( Now I keep double the amount of hidey holes so I can just switch them and carefully soak and clean them instead of feeling rushed.

 

i am sorry about your crash. :( At least you had other tanks to put survivors into.

I'm sorry about your tang. :( I just leave my QT running fallow when I don't need it. It's near zero maintenance and I don't mind it taking up some space in my (ahem) bathroom. Btw I just use a small ceramic wax melter in my QT and my fish seem to love it as a hiding place. Clownfish would hover over the bowl area as if it were an anemone, and shy fish likes to swim inside for refuge. Not to mention it is super easy to clean.

 

8 hours ago, brandon429 said:

 

 

The nitrite isn't harmful, as online articles still show, but the lack of aged surface area and any feedings that weren't part of the system history sure can combine with tissue loss already documented to form a stress/loss event. clearly, some excess protein broke down in the tank somewhere, could be the water column. that's a low surface area setup per pics.

 

 

if I read correct you have sps specific losses and a few mentioned concerning params to you before the event if im reading correctly. sps loss isn't the same as a tank crash, the sps pictured here never started to lay on base mass as a nod that sps conditions were in place at any point in the build. 

 

 

So here you go whoever that wrote the article stating nitrite in SW is not as toxic compared to nitrite in FW.... You are wrong.

 

 

years of chemistry already online don't change with this stn event in your sps frags. 

 

 the pico forum has no trouble plating decorative bowls in sps and then trading frags out of the bowl using far less water and zero nitrite testing. the differences are lighting approach, feeding approach, and nutrient management approach but nitrite testing doesn't factor.

 

 

 

 ammonia testing is what matters and the same protein source that causes a nitrite spike has to first register as an ammonia one, if anything burned your corals it was that+ low active surface area. your cause/effect hunt should contain an ammonia search, which could have easily come and gone before you got out the api

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php

 

 regarding nitrite

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/rhf/index.php

 

 

 

It is very true that the tank is a relatively new build. Looking back, I should not have deep cleaned my pico and moved my hard corals to this tank on the same day.

 

I agree that I have a low surface area in my display area. However, I do have more than a cup of Seachem Matrix in the sump area which should have compensated enough, not to mention it being fishless there were next to no nutrient import. Like I said the only nitrogen import was the few drops of acropower daily that lasted for 1-2 weeks. Corals breaking down probably formed the bulk of my nitrogen problem, and it quickly became a downward spiral as more breakdown means more ammonia/nitrite/nitrate which causes more breakdown.

 

It is likely true that nitrite spike itself didn't directly cause my SPS to become necrotized. I blurted those words more as an emotional venting rather than a logical conclusion. That said, any nitrite spike should still alert the tank owner that something is wrong with the tank and corrective action should be taken to mitigate any loss. And by the way the article we both referred to did not have any evidence of nitrite (non)-toxicity against corals.

 

I am fully aware that the pico forum have great examples of successful SPS tanks. I myself had great SPS growth in a smaller tank. Your point of nitrite testing not being a factor is only because by the time a tank is established, ammonia and nitrite should remain undetectable. If the tank is thriving, who would bother to check their ammonia and nitrite? Absence of the need to test ammonia and nitrite does not prove that ammonia (or nitrite) are not factors in a keeping a successful SPS tank.

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api has known adulterants that spike the test and give false readings, the use of Prime is one, we cannot take the levels posted as accurate.   that's one reason we don't test for nitrites in our cycling threads, and the second reason is due to its neutrality in reef water per the article. each time I post the possible adulterants, those aren't being used in the thread at hand but its still among the reasons we don't test for nitrite in our updated cycling and nano reefing threads, we only want to measure impactful parameters and when we do measure, its with proven accurate tests.

 

the trite can't harm your setup because whatever preceding ammonia event caused the nitrite will kill the system first if indeed their was a protein digestion event of significance that the smaller surface area couldn't process. I'd need to see the cycling specifics of this tank to know further, in our cycling threads we remark about using non api gear (salifert) to prove the ability to digest 1-2 ppm before starting. if you have that info already going in a thread id check it out.

 

there are other instances where inputting slightly too much concentrated feed into a smaller surface area system causes a buildup in the water column... as it degrades  ammonia or trite can present until the circulation variables in the system run that rot across what limited surface area is there---> the rocks and walls and filter have the bac, but its so limited in area (something that live rock prevents well) that any temporary boost of protein to the water column registers as transient spikes

 

that means one overfeed in catchup to not feeding much at all puts your tank at an ammonia event risk, and the nitrite portion just might hang around long enough for you to measure the event.

 

given the same food boost, any system using typical live rock would just convert it into nitrate and measure the protein event as a minor algae bloom

 

something in your setup prevented the mid part from working correctly, and that's assuming the test was correct and free of all possible adulterants that cause false readings. there are more than one for API nitrite, so we don't use it.

 

only ammonia mattered in your issue, and the sps loss appears to precede any ammonia event as well.  none of this detailing is too helpful after the fact am aware, I remember what it felt like to come home and see my bowl dead due to home a/c outage I really hate it happened, can happen to any of us at any time we're all lucky balancers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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