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Coral Vue Hydros

considering move from LED to T5


Canadianeh

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1 minute ago, ifarmer said:

mount it inside your canopy or

get one of those hang kit made out of electrical conduit.

 

Sorry how hanging kit made out of electrical conduit look like?

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Not really you can build mounts to hang the ati  off of but ati only hangs. There is a discontinued aquatic life 4x24 with timers and lunar lights the has legs to sit over your tank. It is ok. I had this on my previous tank with ati bulbs. I switched tanks to an evo 13.5 and got a mini tide and already having better growth. 

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28 minutes ago, Water Dog said:

If you don't want to build a conduit light hanger (best solution IMO), you could buy this...

 

https://www.cadlights.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=73_49&products_id=160

That's awesome! Also adjustable just in case I want to raise it for cleaning.

I wish the price is in Canadian dollar as it is equal to almost $200 in canadian dollar including the shipping.

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On 2/24/2017 at 3:32 PM, Water Dog said:

A lot of cheaper fixtures will use rapid start ballasts like the Workhorse 5 or 7 ballast which are not true T5 HO ballasts.  These will overdrive the bulb resulting in efficiency loss and shorter bulb life. 

 While I'm not going to argue with you that program start ballasts are ultimately the way to go, this above statement isn't correct.

 

Workhorse ballasts are all designed to drive T5HO bulbs, which does make them a T5HO ballast. Rapid/instant start is just designed for a different application, where fast ignition and light generation is more critical, like in room lighting applications where you want the light to come on immediately. Neither the Workhorse5 or the Workhorse7 overdrive the bulbs (the Workhorse7 used to, but the datasheets have changed). The datasheet stat that describes this is the ballast factor. In the WH5, the ballast factor is 0.99 to 1.07 (ever so slight overdrive, barely worth noting) depending on the bulb size. The WH7 has a ballast factor of 0.80 with 54W bulbs. I've used the WH7 with shorter bulbs before with success, and it does overdrive by about 30%, but most people won't ever put a bulb on that ballast that isn't approved by Fulham.

 

Don't knock rapid/instant start ballasts that hard. They still work very well. Sure, they do reduce the effective life of the bulbs a bit (maybe 10-15%), but they still generate the same amount of light when compared to a program start ballast. You won't find program start ballasts in anything but the higher end fixtures, because they cost more to implement.

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Is it possible to use any other area type T bulb and fixture for aquarium in addition to Ecotech Radion Pro? Such T8, T12, and etc? 

 

or does it have to be T5 for aquarium purpose only?

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On 2/24/2017 at 3:32 PM, Water Dog said:

A lot of cheaper fixtures will use rapid start ballasts like the Workhorse 5 or 7 ballast which are not true T5 HO ballasts.  These will overdrive the bulb resulting in efficiency loss and shorter bulb life.

 

53 minutes ago, evilc66 said:

Neither the Workhorse5 or the Workhorse7 overdrive the bulbs (the Workhorse7 used to, but the datasheets have changed). The datasheet stat that describes this is the ballast factor. In the WH5, the ballast factor is 0.99 to 1.07 (ever so slight overdrive, barely worth noting) depending on the bulb size. The WH7 has a ballast factor of 0.80 with 54W bulbs. I've used the WH7 with shorter bulbs before with success, and it does overdrive by about 30%

 

They still work very well. Sure, they do reduce the effective life of the bulbs a bit (maybe 10-15%), but they still generate the same amount of light when compared to a program start ballast.

 

My suggestion for programmed start ballasts, bulb cooling and individual reflectors is for T5 users to maximize the longevity and output of their T5 bulbs that need to be replaced on a regular basis.  Those replacement costs add up over time.  From a lot of my reading and research into T5 lighting, programmed start ballasts drive T5 bulbs to the proper T5HO specifications, whereas rapid start ballasts, by over driving their bulbs, do not. 

 

Not at all trying to be argumentative as you're definitely one of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to all things lighting on this forum, but isn't what I said basically the same thing that you said in your explanation?  Also, if the bulbs are over driven as you have explained, won't that overheat the bulbs, thereby decreasing light output?  I'm just seeking to understand as I find this stuff fascinating.  :D  I want all the information that I can get as I am excited at attempting my DIY project, yet at the same time a bit apprehensive at swapping out the rapid start Workhorse 5 & 7 ballasts for 3 Philips Advance Centium ballasts in my Tek Elite fixture. 

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32 minutes ago, Canadianeh said:

Is it possible to use any other area type T bulb and fixture for aquarium in addition to Ecotech Radion Pro? Such T8, T12, and etc? 

 

or does it have to be T5 for aquarium purpose only?

You can use whatever you like really, but T5HO is the most common for the aquarium world, and as such has the largest bulb selection.

 

T5 also gets more light into the tank. The smaller the diameter of the bulb, the less restrike you get from the light hitting the bulb after bouncing off the reflector, meaning less light lost.

 

With linear tube lamps like this, the number after the "T" designates the diameter in eights of an inch. So a T5 bulb is 5/8" in diameter, T8 is 1" (8/8"), and T12 is 1-1/4" (12/8"). There are smaller bulbs than T5, but they are typically for specialized applications.

13 minutes ago, Canadianeh said:

also what's the advantage of using ATI T5 fixture, compare to something else much cheaper such as Aquatic Life

https://www.amazon.ca/Aquatic-Marquis-Aquarium-Fixture-24-Inch/dp/B00MNOD1M0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488216562&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=t5%2Blight%2Bwith%2Btank%2Bstand&th=1

 

Isn't only the T5 bulb that really matters ?

Nope. Reflector design has a far greater impact on how much light reaches the tank, and is the primary reason why ATI is known as the best.

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17 minutes ago, Canadianeh said:

also what's the advantage of using ATI T5 fixture, compare to something else much cheaper such as Aquatic Life

https://www.amazon.ca/Aquatic-Marquis-Aquarium-Fixture-24-Inch/dp/B00MNOD1M0/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1488216562&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=t5%2Blight%2Bwith%2Btank%2Bstand&th=1

 

Isn't only the T5 bulb that really matters ?

The ballasts used, proper cooling of the bulbs and individual reflectors over each bulb will all have an impact on T5 bulb output and longevity.  All fixtures are not created equal regardless of the bulbs used IMO.

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3 minutes ago, Water Dog said:

 

 

My suggestion for programmed start ballasts, bulb cooling and individual reflectors is for T5 users to maximize the longevity and output of their T5 bulbs that need to be replaced on a regular basis.  Those replacement costs add up over time.  From a lot of my reading and research into T5 lighting, programmed start ballasts drive T5 bulbs to the proper T5HO specifications, whereas rapid start ballasts, by over driving their bulbs, do not. 

 

Not at all trying to be argumentative as you're definitely one of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to all things lighting on this forum, but isn't what I said basically the same thing that you said in your explanation?  Also, if the bulbs are over driven as you have explained, won't that overheat the bulbs, thereby decreasing light output?  I'm just seeking to understand as I find this stuff fascinating.  :D  I want all the information that I can get as I am excited at attempting my DIY project, yet at the same time a bit apprehensive at swapping out the rapid start Workhorse 5 & 7 ballasts for 3 Philips Advance Centium ballasts in my Tek Elite fixture. 

I wasn't contradicting you as far as the merits for program start over rapid start. More clarifying that rapid start is still useful, and that Workhorse ballasts don't overdrive. But, you can't say that a rapid start ballast is not driving a T5HO bulb properly when clearly they do. All program start does is increase bulb life through preheating the electrodes before striking an arc. Once the bulb is lit, there is no difference between the light output of a rapid start or a program start ballast, provided that the ballast factor is the same.

 

Rapid and pulse start ballasts were around for a long time for T5HO bulbs before program start ballasts came around, so you must consider that the T5HO spec was created when program start didn't exist.

 

Overdriving the bulbs will always create more heat, and will need to be controlled. But, bulk cooling the fixture isn't the solution. It's the electrodes that need to be cooled, so any and all cooling efforts need to be focused at the ends of the bulbs. Cooling the body of the bulb doesn't do you much (in an overdriving situation anyway). There has only ever been one commercial fixture that would overdrive the bulbs, and that was from a combined effort between Icecap and Tek. Tek made the enclosure and Icecap provided the 660 ballast, and specially made bulbs that were intended to be overdriven. They had a pretty elaborate cooling system in the enclosure. Not sure how many they actually made, but it probably wasn't many (Icecap went belly up not long after this).

 

And Workhorse ballasts don't overdrive if used within specification (a 7% overdrive in the case of the WH7 with 54W bulbs is hardly worth mentioning) ;)

 

Cheaper fixtures can benefit from a little cooling. Depending on how bad the airflow through the fixture is, you could potentially gain 5% output from getting the heat out (this is very speculative). There is a negative effect from cooling too much too, so there isn't a need to go crazy. Is it something that new purchasers need to worry about? No, not really.

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I really like the fact that LED make the color pops, but I also like T5.

 

Does the ATI T5 hybrid really works in term of their LED inclusion? I need the 24" model and it only comes with 1x 75W cluster. Is this sufficient to make the color pop? my tank height is 20"

this hybrid cost $1700 Canadian dollar for 8 bulbs and $1500 for $4 bulbs. 

 

if I go with Ecotech Radion XR30 Pro, it will cost me $1100 and I don't need to buy bulbs every year. 

 

I am torn between the two. I want to see nice color, bright lit area, and good growth on color :(

 

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Seriously, if I were you, I'd get a 6x24 non dimmable ATI Sunpower.  In your Nanobox Duo, you already have 2 barely used latest generation V3.1 pucks and a Bluefish Mini controller, essentially all of the important Nanobox guts.  I'd see if Dave could add another V3.1 puck and do a 3 puck Nanobox ATI LED/T5 Retro.  This option would be cheaper than both of the options that you mentioned and would be perfect for your IM40.  Heck, since the display area of the IM40 is only 15" front to back you may even be able to get away with a 4x24 ATI with the 3 pucks installed.

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26 minutes ago, Canadianeh said:

I really like the fact that LED make the color pops, but I also like T5.

 

I am torn between the two. I want to see nice color, bright lit area, and good growth on color :(

 

 

I struggle with this also. 

I love the coral growth and good coral colors from T5HO (and in years past I spent a lot of time researching & using them), but over a tank they give kind of a "flat" effect. 

 

You get an amazing underwater "glitter" effect from LED and they do make coral colors "pop", as you said. 

 

I honestly think the best option is a hybrid T5HO/LED light and if money were no object, I'd be all over that in a heartbeat. 

A less expensive route is to either DIY it or really constantly be on the lookout for used fixtures. 

2 minutes ago, Water Dog said:

Seriously, if I were you, I'd get a 6x24 non dimmable ATI Sunpower.  In your Nanobox Duo, you already have 2 barely used latest generation V3.1 pucks and a Bluefish Mini controller, essentially all of the important Nanobox guts.  I'd see if Dave could add another V3.1 puck and do a 3 puck Nanobox ATI LED/T5 Retro.  This option would be cheaper than both of the options that you mentioned and would be perfect for your IM40.  Heck, since the display area of the IM40 is only 15" front to back you may even be able to get away with a 4x24 ATI with the 3 pucks installed.

 

I think 4 x T5HO is actually the most I would use, together with the LEDs. 

I think he might actually be able to get away with a 2 x T5HO personally, and in his shoes that's what I'd do. 

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2 minutes ago, Water Dog said:

Seriously, if I were you, I'd get a 6x24 non dimmable ATI Sunpower.  In your Nanobox Duo, you already have 2 barely used latest generation V3.1 pucks and a Bluefish Mini controller, essentially all of the important Nanobox guts.  I'd see if Dave could add another V3.1 puck and do a 3 puck Nanobox ATI LED/T5 Retro.  This option would be cheaper than both of the options that you mentioned and would be perfect for your IM40.  Heck, since the display area of the IM40 is only 15" front to back you may even be able to get away with a 4x24 ATI with the 3 pucks installed.

I was thinking about this too. Is there a DIY step by step to retrofit my existing Nanobox duo plus M into ATI sunpower nondimable 6 bulbs? 

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But I'd be way too chicken to attempt this myself as it will require soldering...  I'd send it to Dave.  He can even get the Sunpower for you too.

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If you do go dimmable, make sure you do the 50 hour burn in for new bulbs.  If not burned in properly before dimming, you risk cutting the bulb life in half.  That's kinda why I prefer the non dimmable fixtures...  let the LEDs do the dawn to dusk effect and let the T5s do the heavy lifting at 100%.

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3 hours ago, Canadianeh said:

I think I am going to go with ATI Sunpower dimmable 4 bulbs T5 plus 1x Reefbrite tech LED

like @Water Dog said, let the LED do the dimming. Personally dimming T5s are pointless to me. I have seen more dimming HEP ballasts go out over the normal HEP on/off. 

 

Also being picky. If going with the Reefbrite, go with two to keep in uniform. 

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