Alesici Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hi all! I kept a freshwater 5.5 gallon tank for more then five year. Then I decided to move in the nano/pico reef experience. I have read everything I could in order to catch as much as possible (consistent) informations from the web before to take my freshwater tank down and let a saltwater drop dripping in the tank. But I have to say that the beginning of my saltwater experience is not avery exciting! I know failure is a part of the game, and I enjoy it anyway! The story started when I got some rocks from a friend of mine who kept them in his garage. So I went through a "rock reincarnation" process by following step-by-step instructions from http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1914426 (I strongly believe any form of life was sitting in the rocks after that process) After that, I setup the tank with 3lbs of reincarnated rock and less than one inch of new quartz sand, by following instructions from http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?249375-How-to-setup-a-Nano-Tank Equipment is: - an external filter Eden 501 with just some floss (no sponge, activate carbon or cermaic rings; just floss) - a internal Eden pump 25-80 gph - a 25 watts heather Cycling started on February 3rd 2017 by adding a pinch of fish flakes food. Salinity was at 1.023 by using RO water and Kent Reef Salt Mix. Nothing else was added. No fish, inverts or corals were put in the tank. Lights has been kept all the time off, temperature at 77F. After a couple of days the water became cloudy, which made me hopeful the cycling process was starting. On February 10th I checked for ammonia and nitrites by using Salifert test (best before 03/2018): 0 ammonia, 0 nitrites. That didn't sound fine to me, so, the same day I added few drops of Ammonia chloride 32% solution to reach the level of 2 ppm ammonium according with https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/AmmoniaCycling.php During the past days, and until this morning, a made few tests for ammonium and nitrites: 1.5/2 ppm ammonia, 0 nitrites, for every test. In addition, few days ago a kind of white dust appeared on water surface and floating in the water, some stucking on the internal pump. It could be a calcium precipitate, I suppose. Unfortunately, I'm not able to test ph as my tester was broken and I'm waiting for it to be fixed. Before, I take down the tank and start it over again, I would like to have your opinions and suggestions. Thank all of you in advance for your attention. Link to comment
Mariaface Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Did you also test nitrates to see if nitrites were being processed faster than ammonia? What is your water source? My suggestion: Add bacteria? Link to comment
lkoechle Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Have you added any bacteria? The cycle is going to take a while if you're waiting for nature to build the bacteria by itself without any help. I like Microbacter7, but there are a lot of different products out there. Link to comment
smeagol108 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 yea you need some bacteria to kickstart the process. or a msall piece of rubble rock from someone elses tank, or handful of gravel from someone elses tank. Link to comment
iHexBot Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 As the others have said, add some bacteria. The "best" bacteria will be opinion based, but for me, MicroBacter7 has always worked well. Good luck :). Link to comment
Mariaface Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 And when you add bacteria, make sure you don't have chlorine or other 'cleaning' agents in the water that can kill them. If you're using tap water (advise against this), get a dechlorinator like Seachem Prime or something. If you're using RO/DI or distilled water, use a TDS pen to measure and make sure it's super low TDS (ideally 0, maybe up to 3) before you mix with saltwater. Link to comment
Clown79 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 What kind of rock did you use to set up? Did you use playsand in the tank? Definitely get a nitrate test kit, don't worry about ph. If your alk levels are fine, ph should be too I agree with the need to add bacteria and keep monitoring. Link to comment
Alesici Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Thank you all of you for the replies! Actually I didn’t add any bacteria, as surfing many threads from different forums I have read that one could avoid it. Some people just add some shrimp. other directly ammonia. I know that by adding LR or live sand, the cycling start faster and, in some case, no ammonia spike is detected. I used RO water (from tap water) with TSD at 1, so I think it’ good enough, isn’t it? And the rock I used are of this type My friend kept them in his tank for more then 10 year before he took it down. However.….some of you suggested to test for nitrates, which I never tested as I supposed I had to observe a decreasing for ammonia and some increasing for nitrites. So, I just tested nitrates right now to give you an answer and… Nitrates are between 5 and 10 ppm!!! Does it mean that nitrites were being processed faster than ammonia, as Mariaface suggested? So, may I claim that the cycling started in my tank?? If the above claim is correct, then I have to keep ammonia on checking, and see how much time it needs to get zero value. Is it right? Link to comment
Mariaface Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 If you add bacteria, it speeds things up. It also helps you outcompete any harmful bacteria that may grow and feed off of dissolving organics on the rocks. If you test nitrates in freshly mixed water (what originally went into the tank) and it's lower, then that means nitrates are being generated, yes. Your cycling has begun, but keep in mind that the strength (amount of inhabitants the tank can handle) will depend on how quickly it can process ammonia and nitrite. You want to make sure you can dose ammonia to 1-2ppm, and have both be at 0ppm 24 hours later. And in order to prevent starving the bacteria, you'll need to keep dosing until you get livestock in the tank. Link to comment
Alesici Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Many thanks once more for your advices! I knew about the "0-within-24-hours" checking process for ammonia, but I was not sure about feeding bacteria during cycling to prevent starving them. That was a good point, thanks! My plans about stocking the tank is just to introduce some CUC and (probably) a cleaner shrimp to start with and check if the tank-system works fine. Then I will keep the tank running for a while. Later on, I will add some softies, zoas , mushrooms and/or Ricordea. If I understand correctly these are the easiest to keep among corals. From my freshwater experience, I have learned that easier to keep is the tank, more I enjoy it! Link to comment
Alesici Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Just to be on the safe part, I just checked for nitrates level in the water from RO system. It has 0 Nitrates! Hence the tank is definitively cycling!! Link to comment
Alesici Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Hi everyone there! As the behaviour of my tank during its cycling sounds quite weird to me, I want to update you with the last new. To be short, my last checks (taken this morning, march 5th) gave the following results: Ammonia 1.5 Nitrites 0.1/0.25 Nitrates 10 By comparing these result with the previous ones (taken on february 24th, more then 10 days earlier) I see very small changes: The results on february 24th were: Ammonia 1.5 Nitrites 0.1 Nitrates 5/10 I see that something is happening, but my question is: Do you think that this cycling is taking to long time? To be safe, I claim I didn't made any changes at all. Just yesterday I put the lights on for 6 hours daily. Many thanks in advance for your attention. Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Have you added bacteria to the tank? Link to comment
SaltyBuddha Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Did you cure your dry rock before you started the cycle? Dry rock has dead matter and both phosphates and nitrates trapped in the rock. It should be cured ( a process of soaking the rock to remove all this) before you start the cycle. Curing the rock can take anywhere from 3 to 8 weeks depending on the size and quality. This would account for the nitrates already present in the water. You will also have a large algae bloom from the phosphates later on during your cycle. If you did not cure the rocks, it is possible to cycle/cure at the same time but it will take longer. It would account for the weird readings you are seeing. Link to comment
Alesici Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Thank you all for the replies. I didn't add any bacteria, although some of you from this thread suggested. I just dosed ammonia. On the other hand, to add pure ammonia is a method that many reefers suggest, as I have read in many topics from this forum. As I already wrote, my rocks have been "reincarnated", and then put in the tank to cyclying. I never heard/read that dry rock must be cured. From what I have understood, the "curing" process is just for live rocks and it removes all organics and keep just bacteria already there. Or, have I misunderstood something? Link to comment
SaltyBuddha Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Not sure if by reincarnated you mean live rock that is now dried out, but both dry and live rock can be cured. I'm following this guide for my dry rock right now to remove the nitrates and phosphates. http://www.reefaquarium.com/2013/curing-rock-for-marine-aquariums/ Some water changes would probably help remove the nitrates and phosphates. I have no clue how the phosphate levels normally look during a cycle (still very new to salt tanks). It will just take longer for your tank to do it's thing if that's the case Link to comment
Weetabix7 Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 I think it would make a big difference if you added some kind of bacteria. I think you would see things begin to stabilize if you do that. Link to comment
DevFishe Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 It looks like this "reincarnation" process that you linked is designed to kill any living organisms on the rock using some pretty caustic methods. The author of the article said that it should take at least a month for bacteria to start growing on it's own. If you want to speed up the process I agree with buying some bacteria. I would also be very careful using bleach and acid to cure the rock (as per the "reincarnation" instructions)- these rocks are extremely porous and any chemicals left over will not be good for your tank moving forward. Link to comment
SaltyBuddha Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 1 hour ago, SaltyBuddha said: Not sure if by reincarnated you mean live rock that is now dried out, but both dry and live rock can be cured. I'm following this guide for my dry rock right now to remove the nitrates and phosphates. http://www.reefaquarium.com/2013/curing-rock-for-marine-aquariums/ Some water changes would probably help remove the nitrates and phosphates. I have no clue how the phosphate levels normally look during a cycle (still very new to salt tanks). It will just take longer for your tank to do it's thing if that's the case Oops didn't see the original link for the reincarnated rocks. I guess I clicked on the wrong one. No idea how this would change the cycle but adding bacteria sounds like a good start Link to comment
Alesici Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Dev, this is a very good point, indeed! Actually, the author of the article on reincarnation states that "Making them "live" again, by reseeding and giving the bacterial populations and coraline algae time to regrow, takes many months. "! So, I'm well within the prescribed time, and the cycling behaviour of my tank is conceivable. I feel fine, now. Thanks you to have pointed my attention again to the arguments of the article on reincarnation! Probably, all the diagrams about the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates peeks are for cycling with LR. Link to comment
3s1k Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Sounds like your right on schedule. I remember cycling my first reef tank almost 13yrs ago. It took over a month with just small piece of raw shrimp floating inside. Now I use either cured live rock or seed with a bit of live sand from another tank. Only problem is it could have some bad hitchhikers. With all the recommendations I might try that Microbacter7 for my Nuvo 10 office tank I'm setting up now. Link to comment
Alesici Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 3s1K, thank you for your support. I can imagine how easy/smooth/faster Microbacter7 can make the cycling, but I prefer to stay on my path and look what happens. Since, it seems that something is actually happening. :-) Link to comment
yungKitten Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 Glad I read this thread. Definitely going to give Microbacter7 a try with the dry rock I have. I think I'll try a multi pronged approach (seed w/ LR and LS). Link to comment
Alesici Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 As it seems that quite some people is interested in this thread, I'm going to keep you updated with the evolution of my cycliing. Link to comment
yungKitten Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 8 hours ago, Alesici said: As it seems that quite some people is interested in this thread, I'm going to keep you updated with the evolution of my cycliing. For Sure. Include some pictures when you can. Link to comment
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