Doing ammonia to start cycle

[Jrkrouse13]

Hello all. Was having trouble ramping up my ammonia to start my cycle. Purchased ace hardware ammonia today after work and dosed according to a calculator that based it on my tank which was about 2ml worth. Checked the ammonia afterward and it looked above 8ppm. Added freshwater to account for evaporation trying to lower the level then did a pwc of about 2.5 gallons to hopefully offset the levels as well. Then checked the level and it seemed to be below 8ppm but possibly about 4ppm. What should I do? Another pwc? Let it sit and retest?

[seabass]

I hope you started with dry rock and not live rock.  8 ppm is extremely toxic for non-bacterial life; it's even too high for the cycle to progress normally.  Yeah, I'd do another water change and get the level down to about 2 ppm, before letting it come down on it's own.

[Jrkrouse13]

The water change done last night dropped it down to around 3-4ppm. I did not have time to check this morning but the water did also look clearer.

[Clown79]

What kind of rock did you use?

[Jrkrouse13]

It is about 15-18lbs of semi cured live rock

[brandon429]

that's a neat detail can you post a pic of the rocks.

 

  what timeframe are you talking regarding the barely cured...has that live rock been underwater for 60 days for example

 

depending on certain submersion times, adding ammonia to this rock at all may not be required. a few ppm is no big deal either way, just fun detailing it would be neat to see pics

[seabass]

Cured live rock will not generate an ammonia spike (as it already has an existing biofilter).  People call an ammonia spike a cycle, but that's confusing.  The nitrogen cycle can be established without ever having an ammonia spike.

 

Adding ammonia to live rock can kill beneficial fauna on the rock.  This can cause die off and additional ammonia production.  Do a large water change and don't add any more ammonia.

[Jrkrouse13]

The rock was underwater for an unknown amount of time. It has been in my tank for 10 days at this point. So we are saying that I could've killed all of my current bacteria because everything I read stated a cycle was needed even with live rock?

This picture is about 5 days old now. 

[brandon429]

it will suppress them not kill them you haven't retro scaled your cycle although 8 is darn high lol.

 

  you can easily prove its assumed status by dosing ammonium chloride to 1 ppm (after a full water change, already too much ammonia in system) using two different ammonia test kits so you can see an average, and then retest in 24 hours. absolutely any movement down of the reading matches the assumption that they had it underwater longer than a month based on pics and coloration. its not starkly barren white rock it appears to have a little coloration on it.

 

are there any pods, worms, fanworms, sponges or is it devoid of motile life? any algae on it?

 

the 1 ppm test tells us if you need to be cycling it further at all. if it passes a digestion test, we know a lot about how long they kept it under water.

 

you can also pull out a couple test rocks and digest test them in a circulated home depot bucket of clean water at 1 ppm so you don't have to take action on your tank yet with its larger gallonage. I agree 8 is too high but it wont sterilize ya

[seabass]

You didn't kill the bacteria, but you could have killed some non-bacterial life (like pods, worms, microcurstaceans, etc).  I personally wouldn't add ammonia to a tank with livestock, or even just live rock (even as a test).

 

However, if there is any ammonia left in your tank, you could monitor how quickly your tank can process it.  As a result, you should see nitrate levels increase.

[Jrkrouse13]

When I found the ammonia so high I did do a pwc and it dropped the ammonia level to about 3-5 ppm. The rock does have some color to it but not much coralline algae or anything like that. I have not noticed any life in the tank but that's to say that I would have seen it as well. While I am doing this should I be running the lights?

[seabass]

Most people leave their lights off at this stage (or at least on a shortened cycle).  They can facilitate algae blooms (especially when there is no cleanup crew in your tank).  Besides coralline algae, there is probably very little photosynthetic life in your tank at this point.

[Jrkrouse13]

so even with cured rock I want to leave the lights off?

[seabass]

Like I said, there isn't much photosynthetic life in your tank yet.  But there probably are some nutrients (phosphate, nitrate, and ammonia) that, with light, might trigger an algae bloom.

 

Some people do run their lights (to help support coralline algae, or just for viewing).  It isn't typically a big problem (just not necessary).

[Jrkrouse13]

Ok all, just did a test when I got home. Current Params are thus

 

ph 8.0

ammonia 4ppm

nitrites 5ppm

nitrates 10ppm

 

any thoughts? Should I still do a pwc or just top off with fresh water as I'm about a half gallon low. 

 

Do do these numbers seem like the cycle is going properly?

[seabass]

The presence of nitrate indicates that the bacteria is processing ammonia.  I recommend a large water change (like at least 50%).

 

What is the current specific gravity?

[Jrkrouse13]

Currently the specific gravity is holding strong at 1.025

[seabass]

That's about right, but you could top off to get it down to 1.024 prior to your water change; or you could just use a little weaker saltwater during the WC.

[Jrkrouse13]

I have 5 gallons mixed up right now with a salinity of 1.022

[Jrkrouse13]

Parameter check

 

ammonia 1ppm

ph 8.0

nitrites 5.0ppm

nitrates 10-20ppm

 

 

[seabass]

That's better.  Test again in 24 hours.  Ammonia should be 0.25 ppm or less.

[Jrkrouse13]

1 hour ago, seabass said:

That's better.  Test again in 24 hours.  Ammonia should be 0.25 ppm or less.

Will do, hopefully I've got this under control finally. I can hardly contain my excitement to purchase some corals. 

[Jrkrouse13]

Parameter check 

 

ammonia 0-.25

nitrites 2-5ppm

nitrates 20ppm

 

looks like ammonia is all but gone and the nitrites are starting to peak out as nitrates almost doubled over a 24hr period. 

[seabass]

Good!  Now just wait for ammonia to become undetectable (and ideally, for nitrite to become undetectable) before doing a water change and adding livestock.  Nitrite isn't very toxic at these pH levels, so it isn't necessary to wait until it can't be detected; however, it is typically undetectable in a tank with an established nitrogen cycle.

 

The nitrate level will determine the size of the water change.  You want nitrate to be at 10 ppm or less before adding livestock.  So a 50% water change would be required to drop nitrate from 20 to 10 ppm.

[Jrkrouse13]

Thank you seabass! It's quite exciting seeing these parameters change on a daily basis. It definitely keeps you on top of conditions and learn to check on a regular basis