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Clownfish hiding and not eating


SelectedByNature

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SelectedByNature

I've had two clowns for about two weeks.

 

They are friendly with each other and always hang out. They spent the first several days if not a week hiding behind the rockwork.

 

They then started to venture out and would always get very excited when I shook the bag of food at them and ate like pigs. (Flakes and pellets, they don't seem to care much for the only frozen food I had access to.)

 

The last couple of days my bigger clown isn't eating and hides behind the rockwork, even more hidden then when I first got them. Like low and doesn't move too much. Not interested in food although the little one is still gobbing the food up.

 

Parameters:

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0.1

Nitrate 20-30 PPM (how bad is this? Emergency water change?)

Phosphate 0.03

Alk 9

Calcium 390

Mag 1320

Salinity 1.025

Temp 79

 

Any help would be appreciated... Thanks!

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You should have 0 nitrite in the tank, you most likely had ammonia in the tank which converted to nitrite.

 

Some would say the nitrates aren't high but some consider it so.

 

A water change will drop it.

 

How old is the tank?

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SelectedByNature

You should have 0 nitrite in the tank, you most likely had ammonia in the tank which converted to nitrite.

 

Some would say the nitrates aren't high but some consider it so.

 

A water change will drop it.

 

How old is the tank?

I underwent an ammonia spike 4-5 days ago after I added some coral and a live rock piece from another tank. I bound it with Prime but there is still nitrite present.

 

The tank is 2 months old. The nitrates have always been high around 20 PPM. They sometimes drop to 10 PPM after water changes and a few days later back up to 20 PPM. They never lowered after the initial cycle.

 

Update:

 

I tried treating a bit of food with garlic guard and the little clown was into it and the bigger clown was hiding less but still made no motions towards the food, she did go after the small clown though when he first went for he food and she didn't seem to like that.

 

Is it possible I spooked her as some point?

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I think you're looking at a tank that may have cycled, but is adjusting to the bioload of two clowns. Keep dosing Prime, increase aeration somehow (Prime is an oxygen reducer), and try to dose a bacterial supplement as well. Something like Seachem Stability, Microbacter7 or MicrobacterClean, etc. Bacteria will use lots of oxygen as they process ammonia.

 

They may eat like pigs, but don't let them convince you to overfeed! It should help to soak the food in a vitamin or fatty acid supplement (or alternate feedings) to get the most nutrition into the food. Also helps to feed a staple pellet food, since pellets keep their shape and theoretically (I haven't read articles) retain more nutrients on their way to the fish's stomach. I LOVE Omega One super color micro pellets - look at the ingredients! Plus the pellets are tiny enough for my clown to comfortably snap up.

 

Make sure they're not eating enough to make their stomachs super swollen - my clown will gorge herself when I feed my corals, because she's a jerk. But when I'm feeding her specifically, she'll get a handful of pellets and the rest will go to the hermit crab, corals, etc.

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SelectedByNature

I think you're looking at a tank that may have cycled, but is adjusting to the bioload of two clowns. Keep dosing Prime, increase aeration somehow (Prime is an oxygen reducer), and try to dose a bacterial supplement as well. Something like Seachem Stability, Microbacter7 or MicrobacterClean, etc. Bacteria will use lots of oxygen as they process ammonia.

 

They may eat like pigs, but don't let them convince you to overfeed! It should help to soak the food in a vitamin or fatty acid supplement (or alternate feedings) to get the most nutrition into the food. Also helps to feed a staple pellet food, since pellets keep their shape and theoretically (I haven't read articles) retain more nutrients on their way to the fish's stomach. I LOVE Omega One super color micro pellets - look at the ingredients! Plus the pellets are tiny enough for my clown to comfortably snap up.

 

Make sure they're not eating enough to make their stomachs super swollen - my clown will gorge herself when I feed my corals, because she's a jerk. But when I'm feeding her specifically, she'll get a handful of pellets and the rest will go to the hermit crab, corals, etc.

Great thanks a lot!

 

My ammonia currently reads zero but I did have to dose Prime for 3 days.

 

Do you think the presence of ammonia/nitrite could have stressed my clown? Physically she looks fine as far as I can tell.

 

Large water change suggested?

 

I don't *think* I'm overfeeding and I'm keeping my filter floss super clean.

 

I'm currently using Northfin pellets and I did actually order the Omega One pellets based off you and others commenting on another thread, however it is backordered with Amazon and I don't have much marine supplies as my LFS. I feed about six pellets or enough flakes that they eat in about 45-60 secs. No swollen stomachs or anything.

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I can't remember if ammonia tests still catch the ammonium that Prime has bound. But any of the three can be stressful, along with the low oxygen levels that the bacteria create when there's too much ammonia to go around - what tests are you using for the parameters? If they're off at all, it makes a difference.

 

Since there's livestock, I would suggest a water change. Just make sure your parameters match as far as temperature, salinity, alk. If pH matches, even better, but don't chase it. Let the water mix for half an hour after the salt has dissolved, and make sure the surface is agitated to get dissolved oxygen in there. If you have you windows closed for winter, that can also cause CO2 buildup. I'm the weirdo that sleeps with an open window in the winter :P

 

How are you keeping the floss clean?

 

And what water are you using for water changes?

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SelectedByNature

I can't remember if ammonia tests still catch the ammonium that Prime has bound. But any of the three can be stressful, along with the low oxygen levels that the bacteria create when there's too much ammonia to go around - what tests are you using for the parameters? If they're off at all, it makes a difference.

 

Since there's livestock, I would suggest a water change. Just make sure your parameters match as far as temperature, salinity, alk. If pH matches, even better, but don't chase it. Let the water mix for half an hour after the salt has dissolved, and make sure the surface is agitated to get dissolved oxygen in there. If you have you windows closed for winter, that can also cause CO2 buildup. I'm the weirdo that sleeps with an open window in the winter :P

 

How are you keeping the floss clean?

 

And what water are you using for water changes?

How would you suggest I increase oxygenation? I don't have a skimmer or anything. Is increasing surface agitation adequate?

 

API Ammonia/Nitrite/Nitrate

Red Sea Alk/Calc/Mag/Phos

Refractometer

 

Honestly I've never once measured PH.

 

I mix my own salt with RS Coral Pro and the stock return pump from my AIO. I heat it after mixing. (I tried storing mixed water and when I checked the salinity later it was always in the 1.015 range) I guess there is pretty specific mixing guidelines with RS CP salt.

 

I use RO/DI from my LFS but the TDS measures like 25-30. I also used a decent amount of RO/DI from a out-of-town LFS that measured 0 TDS (but I don't have access to it regularly).

 

I change the filter floss every 2-3 days. I was afraid of bacteria building in the media during cycle so I ran no media or floss during cycle.

 

Thanks for your help!

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Surface agitation should definitely help, but whether or not it's adequate will depend on bioload, oxygen use vs what can dissolve into the water, etc. Do it, and see if it helps!

 

Do you know the expiration date on your test kits? I know there are issues with the API ammonia test kit not doing well in lower ranges - you could have ammonia at or below .25, for example.

 

When's the last time you calibrated your refractometer?

 

You don't necessarily have to measure pH - it's just a good marker for when you see it change dramatically. Mine hovers around 7.8 because of CO2 levels in my home, for example. My older freshwater aquarium sits around 6.8 without buffering activity, and with TDS way higher than optimal.

 

I'm not sure what to tell you about the stored RSCP. I know the high levels of calcium and alk might precipitate, but I haven't heard of that causing a problem with salinity. Especially not that large a difference.

 

You're going to want to figure out what that 25-30 TDS is, or invest in an RO/DI filter. Maybe a polyfilter pad will help remove any heavy metals that may be present? I wouldn't trust this water, since the issue with it could be metals, could be chloramines, etc.

 

Replacing it is good, no complaints there! Can you describe how your cycle went? How high ammonia/nitrite/nitrate rose during it, how long it took for ammonia/nitrite to drop back down to 0ppm, etc?

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I would carry out a water change today if your able. (Especially since you recently just had a coral die as well it seems) I would say 30%-40%


Do you know the expiration date on your test kits? I know there are issues with the API ammonia test kit not doing well in lower ranges - you could have ammonia at or below .25, for example.

 

When's the last time you calibrated your refractometer?

 

^This. I recently switched off API after having false readings when I compared it to 2 other test kits.

 

I calibrate my refractometer every week at water change time lol. I may be overdoing it but it puts my mind at ease.

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I calibrate my refractometer every week at water change time lol. I may be overdoing it but it puts my mind at ease.

 

 

When's the last time you purchased new calibration fluid, though?! :P

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When's the last time you purchased new calibration fluid, though?! :P

 

lol, I'm on my 2nd bottle. i use 2-3 drops a week so it lasts me a bit. Probably going to start doing bi-weekly. The bottle is $7 so not too costly.

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I'd use distilled water instead of your lfs water.

 

Some lfs don't actually sell ro/di but just ro water and some don't change the chambers often enough.

 

I calibrate my refractometer monthly and always use the calibration fluid as the distilled water method isn't accurate.

 

I used rscp, never noticed my salinity change but it is one of those salts that doesn't keep long. Its best to mix enough for your waterchange.

 

There are also specific mixing instructions. Mix salt with no aeration or heater for 2 hrs, after 2 hrs heater and pump can be added.

 

To add oxygen to the tank, an airstone with pump can be utilized or an additional powerhead pointed to the surface.

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SelectedByNature

Surface agitation should definitely help, but whether or not it's adequate will depend on bioload, oxygen use vs what can dissolve into the water, etc. Do it, and see if it helps!

 

Do you know the expiration date on your test kits? I know there are issues with the API ammonia test kit not doing well in lower ranges - you could have ammonia at or below .25, for example.

 

When's the last time you calibrated your refractometer?

 

You don't necessarily have to measure pH - it's just a good marker for when you see it change dramatically. Mine hovers around 7.8 because of CO2 levels in my home, for example. My older freshwater aquarium sits around 6.8 without buffering activity, and with TDS way higher than optimal.

 

I'm not sure what to tell you about the stored RSCP. I know the high levels of calcium and alk might precipitate, but I haven't heard of that causing a problem with salinity. Especially not that large a difference.

 

You're going to want to figure out what that 25-30 TDS is, or invest in an RO/DI filter. Maybe a polyfilter pad will help remove any heavy metals that may be present? I wouldn't trust this water, since the issue with it could be metals, could be chloramines, etc.

 

Replacing it is good, no complaints there! Can you describe how your cycle went? How high ammonia/nitrite/nitrate rose during it, how long it took for ammonia/nitrite to drop back down to 0ppm, etc?

 

API kit good through 2018.

 

I heard that about Alk and Calc too but yeah when I received coral I used stored mixed water and I didn't know at the time and it caused a salinity swing from 1.025 to 1.023 :[

 

I had one last 5 gallon bottle of mixed water and i just took it out and checked it and sure enough 1.015 salinity.

 

I just out of budget for this month aquarium wise. I spent like crazy lately so I cannot invest in RO/DI until the end of the month. I'm stuck using the questionable LFS water. :[

 

Cycle was dead rock and I added food to the tank every so often. Ammonia appeared pretty quickly. Nitrite about a week in and Nitrate 12 days after water in. Ammonia was present for 6 days. Nitrite spiked just over two weeks into the cycle and dropped off 4 days later. Nitrate hit 20 PPM at that point and never lowered (except temporarily with water changes and it rose back and always stayed around 20 PPM).

 

Highest ammonia ever rose to was 0.5

Nitrite was 3.3

Nitrate was 40 PPM two weeks ago and it trending upwards again now slowly. (Prob overfed frozen at some point.)

I would carry out a water change today if your able. (Especially since you recently just had a coral die as well it seems) I would say 30%-40%

 

^This. I recently switched off API after having false readings when I compared it to 2 other test kits.

 

I calibrate my refractometer every week at water change time lol. I may be overdoing it but it puts my mind at ease.

I calibrate it but with rodi I don't have any special fluid.

I'd use distilled water instead of your lfs water.

 

Some lfs don't actually sell ro/di but just ro water and some don't change the chambers often enough.

 

I calibrate my refractometer monthly and always use the calibration fluid as the distilled water method isn't accurate.

 

I used rscp, never noticed my salinity change but it is one of those salts that doesn't keep long. Its best to mix enough for your waterchange.

 

There are also specific mixing instructions. Mix salt with no aeration or heater for 2 hrs, after 2 hrs heater and pump can be added.

 

To add oxygen to the tank, an airstone with pump can be utilized or an additional powerhead pointed to the surface.

 

I did test RO water for fun and it registered at 6 TDS (like 5 gallon jug of drinking water).

 

Perhaps distilled is my best option.

 

I've seen the unit my LFS uses and he bases himself of gauges to indicate when to change the filters but I don't know more than that...

 

I turned on my unused powerhead and pointed it upwards for now and I'll keep testing daily.

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Well, keep up with prime and oxygen, and look into switching to distilled water? :)

 

I'm not sure ammonia went up high enough during your cycle. If you ever start a new tank, try a forced hard cycle - I'm doing it with my freshwater tank right now. I dose Dr Tim's ammonium chloride until the ammonia concentration is 2-3ppm (actually went over the first day, oops), then test again in 24 hours. If it's 0ppm, hooray! Bacteria can process a ton of ammonia! If it isn't, I dose enough to get ammonia back up to 2-3ppm.

 

Once it's processing ammonia, I move on to testing nitrite. If nitrite spiked and is coming back 0, hooray! If not, dose ammonia again. Repeat until both ammonia and nitrite are coming back 0ppm, regardless of the fact that I added a ton of ammonia the previous day.

 

If you have live rock during this, it's best to use Prime to bind the ammonia so none of the beneficial hitchhikers die. With dry rock, though, it's awesome. You can also 'cycle' a tank with just biological media this way, and add a small amount of food every few days for a phosphate source. By the time you're cycled, you can add uncured live rock without worrying too much and monitor for a much smaller cycle (if any). Then you're ready for inhabitants :)

 

I like to keep the heater at 80-81F during the cycle, and dose bacterial supplements to get the populations started quickly.

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SelectedByNature

Well, keep up with prime and oxygen, and look into switching to distilled water? :)

 

I'm not sure ammonia went up high enough during your cycle. If you ever start a new tank, try a forced hard cycle - I'm doing it with my freshwater tank right now. I dose Dr Tim's ammonium chloride until the ammonia concentration is 2-3ppm (actually went over the first day, oops), then test again in 24 hours. If it's 0ppm, hooray! Bacteria can process a ton of ammonia! If it isn't, I dose enough to get ammonia back up to 2-3ppm.

 

Once it's processing ammonia, I move on to testing nitrite. If nitrite spiked and is coming back 0, hooray! If not, dose ammonia again. Repeat until both ammonia and nitrite are coming back 0ppm, regardless of the fact that I added a ton of ammonia the previous day.

 

If you have live rock during this, it's best to use Prime to bind the ammonia so none of the beneficial hitchhikers die. With dry rock, though, it's awesome. You can also 'cycle' a tank with just biological media this way, and add a small amount of food every few days for a phosphate source. By the time you're cycled, you can add uncured live rock without worrying too much and monitor for a much smaller cycle (if any). Then you're ready for inhabitants :)

 

I like to keep the heater at 80-81F during the cycle, and dose bacterial supplements to get the populations started quickly.

 

I will definitely get my water sorted out sooner than later.

 

Hopefully a significant water change with bring my fish back to her old self!

 

I still think it's a possibility I spooked her the other day. She was at the front of the tank and I don't remember what I did but she got startled and kind of smacked into some rocks. Is that plausible at all for an explanation?

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...I really hope your fish isn't concussed?!

 

But do the water change, get the water quality where it should be - if she's just scared of you, she'll soon learn that you're just here to bring food and clean the tank.

 

...Then she'll start biting. But that's just a clown thing. :wub:

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SelectedByNature

...I really hope your fish isn't concussed?!

 

But do the water change, get the water quality where it should be - if she's just scared of you, she'll soon learn that you're just here to bring food and clean the tank.

 

...Then she'll start biting. But that's just a clown thing. :wub:

 

Me too :[

 

If someone called my aquascape unorganized and amateurish I would take that as a compliment :/

 

I will thanks again!

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Purplexenia26

i have a 30 gallon tank with a clown fish who's very social and always swimming and eating great. 3 days ago i bought a bunch of coral and an Anenome for it, rearranged the rocks and the clown was ANGRY! for two days straight he hid in the back corner of my tank swimming so low he was almost at the bottom barely moving (which is not like him at all, he's usually up high) and not eating at all but today he's slowly starting to come out and explore a little bit. i haven't fed them yet but i would assume he will probably try to eat something since he is out of hiding. i think he's just stressed. changing their environment even a little bit freaks them out. my entire tank was stressed. my Royal Gramma won't even come out yet but my filefish and clown are out and exploring their new surroundings. I'd say just give him time, he was probably just scared and will hopefully if he hasn't already, come back around. 

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