Morpheus,the lost one Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 hi, i am new to this forum (actually ,i've never posted before).That is because i didnt (and still dont) have a marine aquarium,though i've been thinking on it for a long, long time.Today, after much reading in your site,i desided to go to my local pet shop and ask for more info on a marine aquarium (as if he could ever give me more info than you,anyway...).so...when i told to that retard of a seller about nano reefs he started lecturing me about some idiots who give away wrong info so their companies get rich out of our money (!).and he went on saying that the only way to have even a 50% possibility to have success is by bying (and therefore using) a 200litre (52,8 g) tank!at that point i was pissed off and i told him that i have seen nano reefs of 20 and even 10 gallons working fine,livestock thriving,colours amazing et.c .he made a face and he said he was sure they would break down within a months time and all the poor fish,corals and creatures would die!i told him he was wrong and i walked out of the store.i would erupt like Vesuvius if i stayed there one more minute!i am probaby boring ,but i really need your help.all of you.i need you to tell me everything i need for a 15g aquarium.i know i can find this list throughout your forum but opinions differ plus i need you to suggest me brands available in europe (you see, i am from greece and in my town ,argos,which is about 150km from athens, there are not many choices when it comes to pet shops.there are only two,both run by retards.unfortunatelly,none of them has marine lifestock,liverock/sand or even a computer database for orders.so my only solution is athena but i have to organise my actions if i am to transfer staff from there ,e.g transfer marine creatures for an hour and a half.thats what i am asking of you (i think i am asking for too much,anyway).please give me advise on everything,from lifestock to filtre.i need it desperately so i can go to athens and buy staff that is tested and proven to be worthy instead of buying and praying to god i made the right choice... p.s as i said before ,i am from greece so please forgive any grammatical or spelling mistakes. Link to comment
Doc Shake Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Your LFS guy is just trying to get you to buy a larger tank from him. Buy a good cooler to transport livestock (aka staff) and go get what you need in Athens. If you keep the temp stable and the lights out everything will be fine for an hour and a half. Have fun. Link to comment
Morpheus,the lost one Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 thanks for your advice,Doc Shake.sorry for using the word "staff" a lot (!).anyway...livestock problem solved,but what about the machinery,what do I need?please include brands.god,there are so many of them,i am literally lost! Link to comment
EtOH_is_good Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 the nano tank can take as much time as a bigger reef tank. with a nano can get away with less technology, so theoretically it is easier. choices are much more important. i'll assume that you can convert gallons to metric, so i'll stick to us vol standards. since you have access to the web, check out marindepot.com because essentially everything that we recommend is available from them and you can get an idea of flow volumes for pumps and lighting requirements. very basically, you'll need to get a tank, salt, live rock (~1.5 lbs per gallon), power heads or hang on back (HOB) filter (for circulation) and lights (amount of lights will depend on what you want to keep). don't know the availability of lr in europe, but i imagine that you can call the lfs ahead to find out pricing and quality. 15 g tank is pretty good sized, so you can put a variety of powerheads or HOBs look to get at least 5-10 times turnover of your tank volume for a reef. lighting will be tougher to translate. a good article to start would be this. color spectrum and power (intensity) are going to be what your looking for when you buy. good luck. Link to comment
ReefMonkeee Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 A Protein Skimmer isnt need for a 15 gallon but If you feel unsafed without a filter. I recommend a AquaC Remona with a MaxiJet 1200. About that Shop keeper. when you start up your tank go tell him and tell him to mark that day. Then couples months later takes sum pictures and come back and show him that's he's wrong and enlighten his limited knowledge of reef keeping : ) Link to comment
Morpheus,the lost one Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 ETOH_is_good & Reefmonkee i want to thank you both for your advice,but...guess what!i have more questions (i'm sorry if i am getting boring,but asking questions is what a newbie does,right?) so... Etoh_is_good, i want to ask you what is the exact purpose of a powerhead/hob filtre. Reefmonkee, i want to ask you what a protein skimmer does. i would really appreciate it if you both gave me a prize for these items ,even if american and european prizes are not the same. p.s Reefmonkee,rest assured i will follow your advice about that retard,the seller. ps2 could you please comment on my english.it would be quite useful for me to know my exact level ;-) Link to comment
Withers Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 your english is very good. i've met lots of people from the united states who speak much worse english than you do as for equipment... you will need powerheads to circulate water so that food can get to your corals (they're filter feeders), and to keep your water from becomming stale. they run from $20-50 i'm sure you already know that live rock is your main filtration, and you will probably want about 15 pounds of it. live rock in the states is about $5-10 per pound. you will need lights. power compact flourescents are probably the easiest to find, and try to buy the biggest wattage light that will fit over your tank that you can afford (but all corals will adapt to any light provided that they are fed) lights vary in price, and range from probably $50-130 for power compact flourescents personally, i could never have a tank without a protein skimmer. protein skimmers extract organic material (fish waste, dead fish, etc.), and makes the live rock have to work a lot less. a decent hang-on-the-back protein skimmer runs around 60-130 US dollars. You can choose to add sand to the bottom of the tank. in nano reefs, it is mostly for aethestics (looks), but it can also help to keep your live rock in place. if you do choose to add sand, use aragonite based sand. depending on how clean the beaches are in greece, you may be able to get away with using sand from there (if it is a deserted beach with no tourists any time during the year) you will probably also need a heater. and along with a heater, you will need thermometers to read what the temperature is in the tank. heaters run about $15-20, and thermometers are about $2 after that, its mostly just little things. you will need salt, and a hydrometer (to measure the salinity). you will also need test kits for nitrite/nitrates (some people will tell you to buy a kit for ammonia, but in reality, ammonia gets converted to nitrites anyway, so its kind of useless) all of that combined is probably $40-50 if there is anything that you didn't understand, please post again and i will try to rephrase it. Jason Link to comment
Morpheus,the lost one Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 VicSkimmr ,you are my hero.now everything seems more simple,really.i want to thank you for the prize list , too.now,about that sand...Lets say (hypothetically speaking) i gather it from a clean & unknown to tourists beach (kinda hard to find such a beach,though).Do i have to rinse it with water or leave it in freshwater for a certain period of time?and what should be the volume of it for a 15g tank? To say it one more time,thank you very much for your advice.if the owner of my local pet shop (by the way,why do you refer to it as lfs?what does it mean?)were like you,argos would have more reefs than the fiji islands ! nanoreefer wannabe Dimitris e-mail:mulder1989@in.gr Link to comment
gedemeister Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Hello morpheus and welcome to nanoreef! As a fellow European, you and I are pretty much in the same boat. Reefs tanks over here have to be huge (400L +) and driven by computers, chillers and huge skimmers…or everything will die within 24 hours. That shopkeeper wanted to sell you something bigger and more expensive, plus he most likely he never heard of a (working) nanoreef before! Please read: http://www.nano-reef.com/info/ http://www.wetwebmedia.com/marine/index.htm Regarding help on specific European equipment, you are welcome to PM or ask me! Gedemeister, (who maybe the only real nanoreefer in my in my country) Link to comment
Withers Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 ok, if most all beaches in greece are touristy, then chances are taking sand from a beach won't work. it will have too many pollutants (sun tan lotion, tanning oil, dog crap, beer, soda, etc.) to be put in a tank. it would be better to look for an alternative. the depth of the sand is really up to you. i don't usually put more than 1" to 1.5" in my tanks. LFS stands for Local Fish Store. and this is why he told you what he did. a lot of people believe that the only way to keep a marine aquarium is to have a large tank (55 gallons or more). this is because, in theory, they are much easier to keep all the parameters (salinity, nitrites/nitrates, temperature, etc) in check because it has a large volume of water, and that means that it will be more stable. that is true. but it is also possible to keep very small tanks. you need to keep a very close eye on your salinity and temperature, because when the water starts to evaporate, the salinity will rise (salt doesn't evaporate with water). and your lights may produce too much heat, and cause your tank to heat up too much. nano reef tanks are definitely much more difficult to maintain, but it can be done. if you have any more questions, just fire away Jason Link to comment
Morpheus,the lost one Posted August 25, 2004 Author Share Posted August 25, 2004 Gedemeister, I am really happy we are in the same boat ;-). Now, about your nanoreef.Could you give me more details about it?Livestock,equipment,tank size et.c.I am asking out of curiosity mostly,so,if you dont have time to answer,dont bother with me. I would like to learn about your nanoreef too,vicskimmr. Seems to me you are both experienced so here I am with one more question ... Could there ever be a nanoreef hosting exclusively invertebrates? If yes,could you suggest some beautiful and suitable creatures for me to acquire?What about clams (I think I wont like the answer on this one ;-) ) Dimitris Link to comment
gedemeister Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Well hello again.. I have 2 tanks, one for sps and one for softies… 1. 45l (12g) minibow standard glass tank no hood, 150watt hqi metal halide hanging from the ceiling (aquamedic), 1 650lph powerhead (eheim), 1 hang on back Aqua Medic skimmer driven by a 1000 lph powerhead, 7 kg of liverock, aragonite livesand. 2. 19l (5G) minibow acrylic tank (hagen), Aqua Clear 300 filter, 2 * 13 watt of pc lights (1 blue 1 daylight) 2,5 kg of liverock, ordinary quartz sand. Read about other member’s tanks here for ideas: http://www.nano-reef.com/forums/forumdispl...hp?s=&forumid=3 “Could there ever be a nanoreef hosting exclusively invertebrates? If yes,could you suggest some beautiful and suitable creatures for me to acquire?What about clams (I think I wont like the answer on this one ;-) ) Dimitris” Yep, as long as they are compatible and/or reef safe. Useful link: http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/categ.c...d=23&pCatId=497 Personally I like shrimp, Pistol shrimp, cleaner shrimps... Yes clams can be kept in a nano, but they have some special requirements and are not for beginners. Other questions are welcome! Cheers gedemeister Link to comment
jackass Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 no clams for you and no anemones too until you know what are the cares for them and a good established tank. also lighting will be an issue. so to have clms i say have like 1x70w mh+2x18w actinics pc's, with that you will have a chance to keep clams and anemones without worrieing too much about lighting. if you go mh, prices go from 150$-300$ but also mh for big tanks like 72'' long a mh fixture can go to 1,000$ u.s. mh is the best lighting know (so far) in nanos. my .02$ -ben- Link to comment
Withers Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 for clams, you would definitely need metal halide lighting. they also require daily feedings of phytoplankton. anemones are pretty much the same way, they need fairly bright light (depending on the anemone) and need to be fed shrimp (grocery store shrimp) about 2 - 3 times a week. metal halides are good for nano tanks, but only if you want to have small polyped stony corals and clams. for soft corals, power compacts or VHO's are a better choice, as they don't require near as much light. Jason Link to comment
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