Adventures in Indonesia, salvaging and building a nano tank

[lawrencechancy]

Hi all, i'm an expatriate living in Indonesia. Thought to share my journey of drama, mistakes (which i regret terribly) and redemption in a country very easy and very hard at the same time to fix things.

 

Just started the hobby 2 months ago, and made a ton of rookie mistakes, partly cos the world of reefing here is somewhat dubious. You can get fish and corals at very very low prices. So i kinda got conned into the hobby. Was told everything was very cheap and didnt need any equipment just water changes.

 

Based on that i did 2 things.

 

- Bought a 100 Gallon tank and sump (sump only has live rock and some filter floss) for USD600 with 25 fish and full of corals. Bought in december 2016

 

- bought 2 weeks later (January 2017) a 25 gallon boyu tank for my own home, with a eheim cannister filter and 10 fish with live rock and and corals - USD $300 (the eheim cannister i bought myself as i was worried this fish market guy was pulling a fast one saying theres no need for any filter)

 

Needless to say i was losing fish left and right, and i was struggling till today to fix things by buying make shift sumps and lots and lots of differnt short terms products (i think i currently own 20 bottles of different chemicals from seachem to redsea)

 

I shall post pictures and report on the story here, and if everyone can chime in to suggest ideas to solve my problems and also to view one of the worlds most interesting fish markets (theres a row of shops here with 40 aquarium stores).

 

Lawrence

[lawrencechancy]

Dec 2016 - 1st 100 Gallon tank (in office), 20 fish, lots of corals with live rock, no cycling (in my defence we bought this as a service from the local market, didnt know better)

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-06 at 17.18.43 (2) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

January 2017- 2nd 25 gallon tank (at home), 10 fish, coral, live rock, no cycling plus seachem stability and using some eheim cannister filter. looks very sad, totally regret listening to the guys at the fish market and not doing research

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-06 at 17.17.57 (2) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

As mentioned, this is the problem of not enough research going into a hobby, especially in a less developed country. suffice to say alot of things died, and this is when is started researching and figuring out how to salvage as much as i can.

 

[RayWhisperer]

Welcome to N-R.

http://www.nano-reef.com/articles

A good place for you to start. You can avoid the articles about shipping corals, and maybe surviving power outages (dunno what the infrastructure is like there.) Anyways, it's not the only way to run a reef. It's just the easiest way to have a successful reef.

[lawrencechancy]

hmmm Indonesia is one of the largest exporters of corals. They do have huge coral farms here, but its all in the sea. Basically there are vasts areas of egg crates near the shore semi deep, then they farm corals there.

 

But the problem is i think u get a ton of nasties with that. Yeap have been reading up on all the articles. Basically this was about a few weeks ago, just gonna document my process so anyone whose salvaging and anyone who has experience can chime in.

 

Especially figuring things out when u cant get alot of the supplies

[Clown79]

Well the first issue for losses is lack of cycle. Its really important to cycle a tank in order for the livestock to live. Ammonia kills.

What is your ammonia at now?

 

2nd - 10 fish in a 25g is way too many fish and you have too many clowns in 1 tank. 1 pair of clowns in a 25g, anymore clowns will just be killed off due to aggression.

 

 

If your corals aren't thriving, it could be:

 

Lighting- what kind of lights are you running?

Parameters- do you test calcium, alkalinity, magnesium, nitrates, phosphates?

Its extremely important to test weekly and dose according to the tanks needs. Putting in chemicals without knowing the needs, will lead to fluctuations in parameters which leads to dead corals.

 

Canester filters are fine but they need cleaning every 2 weeks or you're going to have nutrient issues.

Filter floss in the Canester and carbon, filter floss needs changing 1-2 times a week and carbon every 3 weeks.

 

Do you top up with fresh water everyday so salinity isn't fluctuating? Do you check salinity?

Do you have a powerhead for water movement?

[lawrencechancy]

Funny enough i never had a problem with ammonia, im using one of those ammonia alerts from seachem, its healthy. Then i tested using a red sea test kit its 0.15ppm

 

looks ok.

 

I had ridiculous nitrates. >100ppm. I just bought a red sea no3 po4 X and started dosing the fishless tank for about 3 times

 

basically no issues on the fish now, all dead. Im leaving the tank and corals as it is to leave it to cycle

[sam_the_reefer]

You can do large water changes to get the nitrates under control if you can easily get clean natural sea water. Do some research on the corals you have. Some like higher and some like lower light and different nutrient levels. And, if you're in Indonesia, I think you'll need the tank to be in a room with AC if not, then you'll need a chiller to maintain a cooler temperature.

[lawrencechancy]

im keeping AC on at 26 degrees at 24/7.

 

The water we buy at the fish shop is literally sea water. so thats annoying.

 

I just found a shop that sells distilled water, Found an importer that sells Sand from H2O Ocean Reef salt, also have Coral pro salt from red sea. Which of the 2 is better?

 

i read some bad reviews of red sea and alot of good things about H2O ocean reef salt. (really expensive for both, 100 USD for a bucket of 23kg)

[Snow_Phoenix]

Hi Lawrence - I'm from Malaysia (we're neighbours lol). I love the corals we get from Indonesia - most of the exports to Msia are from the Indo-Pacific region - Indonesia and Philippines in particular.

 

As for cooling down your tank, get a chiller (as Xello said) or at least an aquarium fan (you might need to invest in an ATO because the evaporation rate will be high in our local hot/humid weather). You can keep your air-conditioning on 24/7, but it'll be more costly than getting a chiller for the tank.

 

As for salt, I've used regular Red Sea and Red Sea Coral Pro before. I think the Coral Pro does give you an unusually high Alk level, so the regular Red Sea is better. I switched to IO salt for the past year or so since it was more affordable. One bucket of 22kg costs only RM 180 or so here. I've read members on here using IO reef crystals for their coral tanks with good results. Perhaps you could try that (if you're on a really tight budget)?

 

Also, I understand the whole LFS-sells-you-anything-and-everything without giving out the basics. SE Asian LFS in particular, are very good in doing that. As the others have mentioned, it's best you research which corals you currently have and adjust their position in the tank accordingly.

 

Oh, and welcome to NR.

[Pjanssen]

If the local natural sea water is properly filtered then it is a GREAT option-after all,it is what your corals and fish naturally grow in. If distilled is the best you can do for top off then use it, just don't use tap water.

If your Nitrates are 100+, then you have or will have ammonia, that's part of the cycle. Get yourself a decent test kit and test often until you stabilize.

I agree on the chiller. I live in Florida and wouldn't have a feef without one. Fish only you might be able to get away without.

With corals, make sure your lighting is adequate.

If you don't overload with fish, technically speaking you can go without a filter. It's just more work.

Looking at the pictures, your aquascape looks GREAT! You can make both tanks beautiful with some patience and lots of research, including asking lots of questions here. Good luck and happy reefing.

[Clown79]

You want 0 ammonia. If you are seeing ammonia it will process into nitrites then those process to 0. You will need to test at least every other day for ammonia.

 

As for nitrates. If you don't have a skimmer, don't use nopox. Red sea advises against it.

 

Waterchanges are enough to bring down nitrates. A 50% waterchange will bring them from 100 to 50. So three big waterchanges will bring it down.

 

Keeping it down will be on your weekly maintenance routine, feeding, stocking of the tank, and water you use.

 

Distilled water is fine to use. Its distilled. That means theres nothing but water in it.

 

As for salt. They all have good and bad to them. Red sea coral pro does have high alk. Great salt but i'm switching due to the ridiculous high alk levels.

[SelectedByNature]

In theory large water changes bring down nitrates but it's a band-aid to issues of too many fish, overfeeding or irregular water changes.

 

Crazy story though. Glad you're taking the initiative to manage the situation for the health of the animals and your sanity.

 

Cheers, good luck and don't house too many fish.

[sam_the_reefer]

im keeping AC on at 26 degrees at 24/7.

 

The water we buy at the fish shop is literally sea water. so thats annoying.

 

I just found a shop that sells distilled water, Found an importer that sells Sand from H2O Ocean Reef salt, also have Coral pro salt from red sea. Which of the 2 is better?

 

i read some bad reviews of red sea and alot of good things about H2O ocean reef salt. (really expensive for both, 100 USD for a bucket of 23kg)

I'm from the Philippines (so we're neighbors ) sea water is nice and is what I use since it's cost-effective for me, but I get the water myself from the ocean. If your fish shop claims they sell sea water, test it for ammonia because maybe they just get their water off the pier with all the boat sewage. I get my water from a not-so-clean area in a public beach but it's where I collect most of my LS so I think they're used to it. If their water tests ok then it may be more cost-effective to use that instead of making your own water.

[lawrencechancy]

Wow great to see many South East asian guys in this forum, so we understand the issues in south east asia. I mean agree with all, when i go to the market here, next time i go i will share some pictures with you guys. Its amazing its like a whole street market selling Salt water aquarium stuff (im actually from singapore so dont see it there)

Yeah i think im starting to suspect i got a bad batch of Red Sea test kits, the alkaline test is very dodgy, so im starting not to trust the test kit. THe nitrate kit does not work also and i moved to a salifert one that works. Think i will buy another set of saliferts for the tests.

[lawrencechancy]

Good news is that after installing a UV light and a skimmer for a few weeks and i think the tank has cycled, the office tank has not had a fish death in 2 weeks

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-08 at 19.21.55 (1) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-08 at 19.21.55 (2) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

My home tank the 25 gallon corals are alive but all fish except 1 prawn is dead (dont dare buy any till i get proper test kits and it cycles)

[Pjanssen]

It really is a beautiful tank

[Sailfish]

It really is a beautiful tank

+1

That is a very pretty office tank

Cool aquascape, without the horrible rock wall

[lawrencechancy]

Thanks very happy with the office tank. Now to fix my sad home 25 gallon.

 

Currently i manage to install a sump and skimmer using a in tank back wall sump insert from a shop in singapore.

 

Its 150 usd (i think its abit expensive) but this is what i got

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-06 at 19.33.49 (4) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-06 at 17.16.52 (7) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

Problem is the sump does not reach all the way to the bottom of the tank. So theres a bunch of brown slimeballs under the sump. I think its brown jelly from the corals. I soaked the corals in seachem reefdip after i discoverrd the brown jelly. But some are hanging out under the sump by itself and i cant get to it.

[lawrencechancy]

Agenda items for home 25 gallon nano:

 

Reduce nitrate in the tank

 

Somehow fix the extra space under sump... might just get a custom all in one 25 gallon made if cheap in indo...

 

I want to get black sand bed actually..

 

Keep corals alive.

 

Give away anemone.... it keeps trying to get sucked into the powerhead

[Clown79]

I had the black sand and switched it for white. The black doesn't reflect light as well and it was bigger in diameter which caused tons of detritus to build up although i vacuumed it weekly.

 

Since switching to white my nitrates and phos dropped, less algae too.

 

Anemones are prone to doing that, good call on not keeping one. I love them but for me its not worth the hassle.

[lawrencechancy]

One of the indonesian fish experts is suggesting i do a 100% water change, and recure my rocks. Hes saying that when my anemone got sucked in by the powerhead, the toxins released are very detrimental long run to any new fish.

 

true?

[Clown79]

You can do a 100% waterchange and run new carbon. There is no need to recure your rock.

[lawrencechancy]

Ok update,

 

so i gave up on the home nano tank and decided to do it properly, the home tank theres a gap below the in tank sump (AIO) that traps shit food and dead stuff... and i cant clean it without taking everything out.

 

So i went to the local fish shops here to look at options. First shop was very expensive but hes the distributor of reef octopus in indonesia, runs his shop in his house... btw he has a massive home tank 80k liters (around 20k gallon i think)...

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.26.59 by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

This is his tank 80k liters located on the 2nd floor of his house. Empty right now as they are doing some maintenance work, the waterflows down by piping to his backyard which he has coverted half of it into a giant sump (fish are hanging out in the sump right now)

 

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.26.59 (3) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

The massive sump, yes his skimmer is like reaching the top of the first floor. its bigger than me and im 1.8m tall....

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.26.59 (1) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

Giant skimmer from reef octopus, dont think they sell these on amazon

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.26.59 (4) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

Bio filtration... think he just puts a ton of live rock or other natural rock like bio media there... water then gets pump back up to the 2nd floor

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.26.59 (2) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

Fish are massive and chillin out in the sump

 

 

Ok back to my tiny tank ( ) :

 

I went to the fish market there are like 4 or 5 shops that make tanks there, they also sell some japanese tanks that have very clear glass and well made, intention is to pick a nice 20-25 gallon and ask them to drill it and make a sump below, and sell me a rack to hold it all in.

 

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-13 at 14.47.26 by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-13 at 14.47.26 (1) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-13 at 14.47.26 (5) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

 

Sumenep fish market in jakarta (>40 small shops)

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-13 at 14.47.26 (3) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

 

Found a shop making aquariums

 

 

 

Bought a more expensive tank made by nisso (jap brand - says crystal clear...) So agreed on a price of 150 USD for a tank (23 gallon), sump , pump, piping and rack. Guy said he could do it in 1 day since he has everything already

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-13 at 14.47.26 (4) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

 

 

Tank done.

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-13 at 14.47.26 (6) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

Not bad for 150 usd

 

For the tank:

 

1) im gonna use crushed coral.. cos theres no good clean sand that i can find in this country and its so hard to import some...

 

2) Managed to buy some carribsea mineral mud from the big fish tank guy's store. so i wanted to try setting up a refugium

 

3) stole a couple of almost cycled rock from the old tank, rinsed it in distilled water and put it in the tank.

 

4) ordered some marinepure spheres from amazon gonna put it in the sump when it arrives on wednesday.

 

5) managed to steal some chaeto off one of the shops in the market.. ok didnt steal, paid him 1 usd for it... no one knows the word chaeto here.. they call it rumput

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-13 at 15.09.27 by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

i think i have to put mineral mud in a container first, easier to take out next time if i need to change it. .. put some crushed coral layer on top so the mud doesnt go flying everywhere

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.04.11 (2) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

Set up the crushed coral bed... ok for the crushed coral, i spent the last 2 nights reading up on arguments of crushed coral vs sand.... basically sand good cos... less nitrate trap... sand bad cos more surface area for phosphate and shit to bind with... sand can be changed every few years... coral bad... bigger so more stuff trapped... so i spent 2 hrs picking out all the big pieces from my crushed coral... there best of both worlds (not that i had a choice..no clean sand here... even washing it it still stinks...)

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.04.11 (3) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

setting up refugium...

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.04.11 (4) by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

added water...

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.04.11 by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

refugium..

 

WhatsApp Image 2017-02-12 at 21.04.12 by lawrence chan, on Flickr

 

final product..

 

 

Added

1) seachem stability

2) some fish flakes...

 

Gonna wait it out to cycle for a month... will test every week.

 

Hopefuly this is a good fresh start to my reefing hobby.

 

 

Thanks all

[Sailfish]

Awesome with all the pictures!
Good luck!

[Pjanssen]

Wow! All of that for $150 U.S.What a deal. Good luck