Is dosing necessary?

[Canadianeh]

In the past few days I had spent numerous hours testing different test kits trying to find that one close to perfect all around test kit. My wife scolded me for spending hours and days on it. I then realized that I have been spending more hours on equipments, water chemistry, test kits, and etc. than actually sitting down and enjoying the view of my tank.

 

The more I read and watch articles, the more I feel like I still need to buy this and that and do this and that. It makes me think when do I get to enjoy my tank?!? LMAO

 

I prefer to not add husbandry onto my list other than WC and once a week water testing, but is dosing really necessary? I know that they have the automatic ones but it still requires me to mix and set it up and I don't have the luxury of extra space and time.

I just want to keep a handful of fishes, anemone, softies coral, and maybe only one or two LPS or SPS.

I was told that doing regular WC should be enough for most cases.

My questions are:

-is there a specific salt brand that contains enough chemistry that allow me to do water change only without dosing?

-how much water change is enough to replenish the chemistry if I do per week?

[RJWalters]

I wouldn't think you would need dosing unless it is a sps heavy tank. Or if your Cal, Alk, and Mag are always low. With doing weekly water changes with a good quality salt I don't see why you would have a problem but it all comes down to how much your tank consumes. Just my .02

[burtbollinger]

I've been thinking a lot on this lately too....also going LPS/Soft.

 

for now with zero/few corals, I'm going to lean on Red Sea Coral Pro salt that has elevated levels of Alk.....then rely on weekly water changes...but as time goes by, I am very likely going to use Kalkwasser inside of my ATO. I've never used it but it seems easy enough. (may or may not impact the ATO pump negatively) I had used BRS 2-part in the past and I really found it kinda annoying after time and my laziness with it hurt my old tank.

 

So plan this time is basically, get a good ATO (you dont want it overdosing by accident), and research Kalkwasser dosing.

 

I also splurged and got the Hanna Alk. tester....seems a nice way to easily monitor the Alk.

 

 

protip: watch at 1.5x speed.

[Canadianeh]

The downside of kalkwasser is if your PH already high it can push it up further high to the bad level, and if you use PH monitor which shut off kalkwasser then your tank doesn't get top off due to high PH. Where is the win win situation on this case?

[burtbollinger]

sounds like a pain. I didnt wanna have to buy a PH monitor for my Reefkeeper Lite but you make a good point.... I'll probably try very low dose of kalkwasser, monitor PH, and if I dont like what i"m seeing, go back to 2-part.

[Water Dog]

Really, the only way to determine if you need dosing is through testing. Your tank is fairly new, so for the time being, continue with weekly water changes to maintain your levels. Once you are stocked with a decent amount of corals, do a water change and get a baseline measurement of the big three, Alk, Ca and Mg. If you need to dose it up to "ideal" levels, then do so. Then measure everyday for the next 3 or 4 days at the same time everyday. That way you will be able to determine your daily consumption. From there, you will be able to determine your daily dosing requirements.

 

Mind you, depending on what you keep, weekly water changes may be enough. Just don't overthink things and take it slow. Don't get wrapped up in all the "stuff" and lose sight of why your in this hobby in the first place.

 

Happy reefing!

[chipmunkofdoom2]

At the end of the day, the goal is stability. If you can meet that without dosing, then you don't need to dose. If you can't, then you do. You've already sort of answered your own question by saying that you don't have the patience/time to dose or the space required for equipment. Many people are of the opinion that dosing is not a worthwhile endeavor on nanos because water changes with a good salt mix will replenish your minerals and are much easier than dosing. For the most part, I agree. But I don't think that's an excuse to test infrequently, or to not have a thorough understanding of water chemistry.

 

I will say that dosing and water chemistry become much easier once you get familiar with the terms and with the equipment. I can test Mg, Ca and carbonate (alkalinity) in under 15 minutes with Salifert test kits. Dosing maybe takes another 10 depending on what needs to be dosed. Every few months I have to spend 10 minutes mixing up more dosing solution, which I store in glass bottles in a closet. So overall, the time spent testing and dosing for me is very minimal. I actually really only test my newly mixed saltwater and correct any deficiencies in Mg and carbonate (alkalinity). I dose Mg up to 1,350 PPM and match alkalinity to the tank and add the water. Every month or so I test the Mg and Ca in the main tank to make sure they're still at good levels and dose to correct, but that's it. The dosing and testing take less than a half hour, and I only do that every time I do a water change. It adds overhead, for sure, and it admittedly takes a while to learn what everything is and how the chemistry works. But once you have the basics down, I feel like that's a very small price to pay for absolute stability. Different strokes for different folks, but that's just my take.

 

I'll also add that even if I found a salt mix that had the exact levels of minerals (Mg/Ca/Carbonate) that I wanted, I would still test every single new batch that I mix. I got in the habit of testing every new batch when I was evaluating salt mixes, and I'm fully convinced I'm never going to put water in my tank again without testing the big three (Mg/Ca/carbonate). I've read too many threads over the years of people saying "a bad batch of saltwater crashed my tank." If the batch of salt mix is really bad enough to crash your tank, it's likely going to show somewhere if you're testing Mg/Ca/Carbonate. While the bad salt mix may have crashed the tank, the tank may have been fine if the aquarist had tested the water and realized there was something wrong with it, and never put it in the tank in the first place. Like I said, different strokes for different folks, but considering that some people have thousands of dollars invested in this hobby, an extra 20 minutes to test and dose newly mixed saltwater seems like a small price to pay.

 

TL;DR: Red Sea Coral Pro seems to have good levels of Mg/Ca/Carbonate. You might be able to get away with just weekly water changes with that. Regular testing, and dosing when appropriate, may still be required.

[BulkRate]

IME attempting to keep parameters in check with water changes alone is doomed to failure as your tank matures, at least if you're running a mixed reef tank. Softies, or fish only keepers may be able to pull it off, though.

 

In my tank once the macroalgae started growing and most rock (and more glass than I'd like) got a thick covering of coraline it wasn't possible anymore to keep alkalinity in a healthy range (dKh of 8-9, for example) changing out 20-30% a week. Then there was the inevitable downward trend... since you're not replacing 100% of what's used on a partial water change, levels of the big 3 (and other trace elements) will creep downwards over time. My magnesium hung around 1100 and alk at 6 for a long time until I bit the bullet and started dosing. Could not keep LPS alive, and had lots of imbalance-related blooms of crud.

 

Yes, tracking your problem stat on a Hanna checker can work wonders. after a couple weeks testing I was able to determine how much of everything was being used (and where my salt mix departed from it's on-bag levels). Nowadays I have a lovely blastomussa and hammer garden coming together.

 

To avoid this you'd have to approach the change schedule from a pico reefer's standpoint - 100% water changes weekly to reset every parameter back to its initial level, I'd think.

[Clown79]

Well in theory water changes should be enough. In my own experience, it wasn't. Every tank is different and what the inhabitants use is different.

 

I had mainly a softie tank and my alk, ca, and mag dropped within 3 days of waterchanges. In order to keep the parameters stable I dosed accordingly. After i figured out I needed to dose every 3 days.

 

Now that I have lots of lps and sps my parameters drop every day which requires dosing daily to keep my levels stable.

 

Waterchanges alone will not keep the levels stable if they are being used by corals, coralline, etc.

 

In the beginning with minimal corals, dosing is not normally required or even recommended. Weekly testing with waterchanges should be sufficient.

 

Once you start adding quite a few corals, the best way to determine what parameters are being used and how much its dropping is by frequent testing.

 

Test tank after water change- document it

Test the day after- document it.

 

If no change then you know daily dosing isn't needed. Test next day. That will ultimately tell you how often and how much your corals are using and when to dose and how much to dose.

 

2 part liquid dosers are fairly easy and takes about 10 mins out of a day to do manually.

 

Once you have things figured out it becomes easier and weekly testing will only be needed.

 

Unfortunately, new tanks mean instability as things change which also means having to work at it. It doesn't matter what equipment you buy, there is still a level of husbandry involved.

 

Unfortunately reef tanks are about dedication, work, and maintenance. There will be times when only weekly testing and waterchanges is enough. There will be times when you run into problems like algae blooms, nutrient issues when you have to up the waterchange frequency. There will be times when you are testing every day and then times where every 2 weeks.

 

Learning to enjoy these aspects and make it part of the enjoyment of owning a reef is the best advice because I think most can honestly say, its rarely about just doing a waterchange, sit back and enjoy.

[Veng]

If you want stoney things to grow, your water must have liquid stone in it. Guess what, stone doesn't dissolve terribly well in water so there is very little liquid stone actually in water. Stoney corals are quite efficient at sucking it out. If you want corals to grow, you must add stone to the water. This is no way around this.

[Canadianeh]

If you want stoney things to grow, your water must have liquid stone in it. Guess what, stone doesn't dissolve terribly well in water so there is very little liquid stone actually in water. Stoney corals are quite efficient at sucking it out. If you want corals to grow, you must add stone to the water. This is no way around this.

And how do you add "stone" into water??

[Clown79]

By dosing. Thats what he means.

 

Waterchanges are only sufficient for a time until things start using up elements that the waterchange provides.

 

Doing 1 waterchange a week eventually won't provide the levels your tank needs as it uses it. Pico tanks have an advantage where you can do a 100% waterchsnge frequently if not daily which replenishes all elements to original numbers.

 

In larger tanks, as the tank uses up alk, ca, and mag you will need to dose between waterchange days.

[NanoReefNoobie86]

I think it really depends on the size of your tank and what you are stocking it with. I have a fluval edge with mostly easy corals and I only rely on water changes twice a week. On a small tank like mine it takes me 10-15 mins to change out 2-2.5 gallons of water so it isnt that big of a deal. All I really do is test my salinity in my new water and check it in my tank once in awhile. I use Reef Crystals.

[Veng]

And how do you add "stone" into water??

So a little more technical in this reply, Stoney corals are calcium carbonate based. Obviously, adding straight solid calcium carbonate into the water it's not going to disolve and form the calcicum and carbonate ions you need or else your corals would dissolve. So instead we take the two liquid parts, calcium and carbonate and add them via dosing. Water changes can yield the same affect, however they become uneconomical with anything other than pico tanks. For example, my tank will drop 1 dkH per day. Assuming I want a dkH of 8 and I do a water change every day using a 12dKH salt, and a tank volume of 25 gallons, I'd need to a 5 gallon water change EVERY DAY to keep up with the demand. I'd still see a 1dKH swing which is much more than most people want on a regular basis. So I could go to twice daily water changes and change 3 gallons (note, 3, not 2.5 multiple water changes are less efficient) and result in an swing of only 0.5 dKhw. Now, I know for sure, I damn well don't want to do a water change every 12 hours.

[Lawnman]

IME attempting to keep parameters in check with water changes alone is doomed to failure as your tank matures, at least if you're running a mixed reef tank. Softies, or fish only keepers may be able to pull it off, though.

 

In my tank once the macroalgae started growing and most rock (and more glass than I'd like) got a thick covering of coraline it wasn't possible anymore to keep alkalinity in a healthy range (dKh of 8-9, for example) changing out 20-30% a week. Then there was the inevitable downward trend... since you're not replacing 100% of what's used on a partial water change, levels of the big 3 (and other trace elements) will creep downwards over time. My magnesium hung around 1100 and alk at 6 for a long time until I bit the bullet and started dosing. Could not keep LPS alive, and had lots of imbalance-related blooms of crud.

 

Yes, tracking your problem stat on a Hanna checker can work wonders. after a couple weeks testing I was able to determine how much of everything was being used (and where my salt mix departed from it's on-bag levels). Nowadays I have a lovely blastomussa and hammer garden coming together.

 

To avoid this you'd have to approach the change schedule from a pico reefer's standpoint - 100% water changes weekly to reset every parameter back to its initial level, I'd think.

If you want stoney things to grow, your water must have liquid stone in it. Guess what, stone doesn't dissolve terribly well in water so there is very little liquid stone actually in water. Stoney corals are quite efficient at sucking it out. If you want corals to grow, you must add stone to the water. This is no way around this.

+1

[reefist]

It doesn't get any easier or cheaper than kalkwasser. Mix up a months worth in a still reservoir and replace your evaporation with it. A doser of some kind is best. I use a Litermeter that administers the kalkwasser in 150 doses over 24 hours so pH isn't an issue. If your pH is on the high side just dose it at night. Most people have the opposite problem, at least here in WI where windows stay closed. I've never needed a pH controller in the 30 years I have been doing it.

 

Once a month mix up kalk, enjoy your tank for the other 30 days.

[Canadianeh]

It doesn't get any easier or cheaper than kalkwasser. Mix up a months worth in a still reservoir and replace your evaporation with it. A doser of some kind is best. I use a Litermeter that administers the kalkwasser in 150 doses over 24 hours so pH isn't an issue. If your pH is on the high side just dose it at night. Most people have the opposite problem, at least here in WI where windows stay closed. I've never needed a pH controller in the 30 years I have been doing it.

 

Once a month mix up kalk, enjoy your tank for the other 30 days.

 

What's the advantage of Litermeter over Jebao doser? I just got a Jebao doser for $50 bucks and I wonder if I can user it with kalkwaser

[Canadianeh]

I think it really depends on the size of your tank and what you are stocking it with. I have a fluval edge with mostly easy corals and I only rely on water changes twice a week. On a small tank like mine it takes me 10-15 mins to change out 2-2.5 gallons of water so it isnt that big of a deal. All I really do is test my salinity in my new water and check it in my tank once in awhile. I use Reef Crystals.

 

I am only thinking to keep some fishes (2 clowns, 1 yellow watchman goby, 1 bi-color blenny, 1 purple firefish, 1 Cardinal bangai), CUC, one or two shrimps, one starfish, BBTA, majority softies corals, and MAYBE one SPS and one LPS in my 40 gallons tank.

I am using Fauna Marin salt right now, but I am thinking of switching to Red Sea Coral Pro salt or Aquaforest.

[burtbollinger]

the load that your describing really reads like a well stocked mixed reef...so yeah, as you know, you're gonna be needing to supplement...

 

SO...do you have an ATO? If so, why not start testing alk. and Ca., get your baseline...then toss a low amount of Kalkwasser in the ATO and see what happens via monitoring....double check this approach with others, but this is what I'm planning...maybe research this approach, and see if it can work for you.

 

just in general, as an observation, when it comes to the frustration of not being able to sit down and just enjoy the tank...that was something that I thought about often with the last tank I had...looking back, I remember tinkering and stress just as much (if not more) than I remember the being able to sit and chill with the tank....one didn't exist without the other....and this is why when my tank went away for a few years, it was in many ways a relief.

 

Only after 5 years am I ready to dive back in...excited about stressing over it all....this time I'm diving in buying everything right the first time to shave off as much stress as I can...but in some ways you just gotta 'embrace the suck'. And at some point, things will go on auto pilot a bit...the key there is to not get too lax.

 

It's just not a good hobby for cutting corners or the perpetually lazy. Many of the heavy stoner stereotypes I used to know who got into reef tanks to impress visitors all had theirs crash within a year because they just didnt understand or wern't willing to make the commitment to testing, water changes and dosing as needed. Compare that with the many TOTM owners here...its clear what it takes to succeed. Patience, knowledge and knowing and adjusting the tank chemistry as needed...

[Canadianeh]

the load that your describing really reads like a well stocked mixed reef...so yeah, as you know, you're gonna be needing to supplement...

 

SO...do you have an ATO? If so, why not start testing alk. and Ca., get your baseline...then toss a low amount of Kalkwasser in the ATO and see what happens via monitoring....double check this approach with others, but this is what I'm planning...maybe research this approach, and see if it can work for you.

 

just in general, as an observation, when it comes to the frustration of not being able to sit down and just enjoy the tank...that was something that I thought about often with the last tank I had...looking back, in my personal experience, I remember tinkering and the stress just as much (if not more) than I remember the being able to sit and chill with the tank....one didn't exist without the other....and this is why when my tank went away for a few years, it was in many ways a relief.

 

Only after 5 years am I ready to dive back in....I'm excited about stressing over it all....this time I'm diving in buying everything right the first time to shave off as much stress as I can...but I guess what I'm saying is in some ways you just gotta 'embrace the suck'. And at some point, things will go on auto pilot a bit...the key there is to not get too lax.

 

It's just not a good hobby for cutting corners or the perpetually lazy. Many of the heavy stoner stereotypes I used to know who got into reef tanks to impress visitors all had theirs crash within a year because they just didnt understand or wern't willing to make the commitment to testing, water changes and dosing as needed. Compare that with the many TOTM owners here...its clear what it takes to succeed. Patience, knowledge and knowing and adjusting the tank chemistry as needed...

Yes I have an ATO, and I also have Jebao dosing unit that is sitting around. Maybe I can use Jebao dosing unit, and just program it to dose Kalk at night time to avoid PH spike (if there is any)?

 

I am not lazy or anything. It is just hard for me to do these tests when I am color blind, and Exact Idip digital photometer also is not as accurate as Red Sea kit. Is there any digital test kits out there that have the same accuracy as traditional test kits such as Salifert and Red Sea?

[reefist]

I can't comment on the Jebao as I have no experience with their products. The Spectrapure Litermeter has been around since the '90s, has a proven track record, and is an ultra-reliable precision instrument. They can last a very long time with minimal maintenence.

[burtbollinger]

I bought the Hanna Alk. tester...I think that would be very helpful for you.

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/alkalinity-dkh-colorimeter-hi772-hanna-checker-marine-water.html

 

I've read mixed about the Ca. one they make...maybe do some more research...I'm betting its good enough and would be a help to you.

 

I wasn't calling YOU lazy or anything ...I just have a lot of personal experience watching lazy trendies see my tank, drop loads of cash, try to emulate, then fall off because they refused to do the basics like testing their water.

[Canadianeh]

I bought the Hanna Alk. tester...I think that would be very helpful for you.

 

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/alkalinity-dkh-colorimeter-hi772-hanna-checker-marine-water.html

 

I've read mixed about the Ca. one they make...maybe do some more research...I'm betting its good enough and would be a help to you.

 

I wasn't calling YOU lazy or anything ...I just have a lot of personal experience watching lazy trendies see my tank, drop loads of cash, try to emulate, then fall off because they refused to do the basics like testing their water.

No no I know you were not calling me lazy. I just wanted to put it out there. I like routines actually.

 

So Hanna is only good for Alk, and so so for Calcium? How about Magnesium?

[markalot]

Why test calcium, magnesium is a good question since it relies on color as well.

 

If you dose with either Kalk or a balanced 2 part additive the only test you need is Alk and base all dosing off of Alk, Calcium will balance out. I rarely test Mag, I just add some now and again and seem to luck into the correct range.

 

Stick with softies and water changes will probably be ok. A single SPS can use a lot of Alk when it starts to grow.

 

I like Kalk and I use a timed topoff system using a pump from BRS. I adjust evaporation via a fan in the sump rather than altering topoff amount. For very low usage tanks just a little bit of Kalk in the topoff will go along way. I don't believe PH is an issue, especially if you have a newer house which is well sealed. My PH regularly hits 8.5 now and I'm not seeing an adverse effects at all.

 

I use a calibrated PH probe and unless you have one just don't test PH and all problems solved.

 

In the end, to answer the question, some kind of dosing is always a good idea as the tank ages. This can be done using smaller more frequent water changes with a high KH salt, with Kalk, or with a balanced 2 part system.

 

If you ever decide to go with SPS just remember one little tidbit. Alk dropping too low annoys SPS but rarely kills them unless the problem goes unsolved. Rising Alk, especially a quick rise, will kill them dead. If you decide to go with weekly water changes and bump the Alk from say 7 to 9 in a single water change you won't be keeping SPS very long.

[Canadianeh]

I have question for someone who uses Kalkwasser in their ATO.

Let's say if you have add 1 teaspoon of Kalk powder in a 2.5 gallons reservoir. Do you add more Kalkwasser powder each time you refill, OR do you just shake the reservoir jug only since there will be some kalkwasser powder left in the jug, OR do you completely rinse it out and add a new RODI water and add 1 teaspoon of Kalk powder?

Also, before did you test for Alk everyday for one week to see how much Alk your tank uses, and then use the Kalk powder? How do you know how much Kalk powder to use in ATO?