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Dawn's pony garden.


vlangel

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I have been getting red tree sponges and orange tree sponges from live plants for quite a few years.  Results were not stellar but they displayed well for about a year.  Six months ago, I got my first Yellow Ball sponge from live plants.  I liked them so much I now have six of them in my two display tanks.  Because I feed heavy and run high nutrient systems, twice a week, I use a soft tooth brush and clean off nuisance algae from their yellow outer sphere.  You can actually see their water intake tubes close up in response to the handling.  I remove them from the bottom using one hand to hold near the light and with the other hand to brush off the offending algae.  I often put them in differrent places just to change visual effect in tank.  I have four differrent sponges from live plants.  After lights come on, I will get a picture to display them.  

 

With more than 50K species of sponges, each with its specific feeding requirements we can strive to duplicate what they need.  My 25 year old systems makes its own phytoplankton.  I also culture phytoplankton and add to my large systems every day.  As an early bird, I will spy on the “little people” in the CUC using a red led.  I love this stuff.  It fascinates me to see the complexity and perfection of Creation.  

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31 minutes ago, got2envy said:

This is so nice! I have thought about keeping ponies in my reef years but I am to chicken, they take so much care.

I was looking at some of your old post as a macro farmer.  Are you familiar with cultivation of Sea Grapes as a people food.  While Caulerpa lentillifera is the gold standard for people ediable Sea Grapes, Caulerpa racemosa is a close second.  My daughter is an executive chef and asked me to provide her a fresh source of Sea Grapes.  I see where you moved from Florida where C. racemosa is native.  Do you still have C. Racemosa available?  Perhaps I could trade you some Red Grapes for your Green Sea Grapes.

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#1 is Yellow Ball Sponge with Green Mandarin checking out the shampoo / haircut I gave the Yellow Ball Sponge duet.

 

https://www.live-plants.com/yellowball.htm

 

https://www.live-plants.com/elephantearsponge.htm

 

https://www.live-plants.com/orangesponge.htm

 

These other two species are the first time in my systems.  They look very nice and I am encouraged particularly with the orange encrusting sponge.  

 

Also, I just got two more fish to add with the Green Mandarin as new arrivals.  The Green Mandarin went in undetected during cover of night, two weeks ago.  The introduction of the Sailfin Blennies and Bicolored Dottyback was much more dramatic with 10 Blue Yellowtail Damsels in the same tank.  I introduced the 4” Algae Blennie first to draw attention away from the introduction of the much smaller Dottyback.  First Blennie/Damsel stand off was immediate.  The two largest alpha males got in the face of the Blennie with no other aggression observed.  Dottyback was 1/3 the size of the Damsels.  The alpha Damsel initially faced off with Dottyback, who stood his ground.  The Damsel attacked first and Dotty avoided the jab and readied for the next move. The Damsels quickly got disinterested when they realized that Dotty had the ferocity of a Trigger Fish, when attacked.

 

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4 hours ago, got2envy said:

This is so nice! I have thought about keeping ponies in my reef years but I am to chicken, they take so much care.

They are pretty high maintenance but I love their personalities.  For me the most difficult thing is going away and asking my sister to come every day to feed them.

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4 hours ago, Subsea said:

I have been getting red tree sponges and orange tree sponges from live plants for quite a few years.  Results were not stellar but they displayed well for about a year.  Six months ago, I got my first Yellow Ball sponge from live plants.  I liked them so much I now have six of them in my two display tanks.  Because I feed heavy and run high nutrient systems, twice a week, I use a soft tooth brush and clean off nuisance algae from their yellow outer sphere.  You can actually see their water intake tubes close up in response to the handling.  I remove them from the bottom using one hand to hold near the light and with the other hand to brush off the offending algae.  I often put them in differrent places just to change visual effect in tank.  I have four differrent sponges from live plants.  After lights come on, I will get a picture to display them.  

 

With more than 50K species of sponges, each with its specific feeding requirements we can strive to duplicate what they need.  My 25 year old systems makes its own phytoplankton.  I also culture phytoplankton and add to my large systems every day.  As an early bird, I will spy on the “little people” in the CUC using a red led.  I love this stuff.  It fascinates me to see the complexity and perfection of Creation.  

Your tank has a major advantage over mine in that I have to control nutrients somewhat for the seahorses' sakes.  Their wastes a lone is already high nutrient and my frequent large water changes and oversized skimmer are necessary so the ponies stay healthy.  I am afraid to feed the tank for fear of crossing the seahorses' threshold of nutrients and perhaps giving them gas bubble disease.  Someday I too may switch to a blenny/jawfish tank.  Even now I am transitioning in that direction.

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I encourage high nutrients.  When I see cynobacteria instead of going for phosphate removal resin, I add a nitrogen source to combine with phosphate to encourage growth of desirables.

 

@vlangel

I am too much of a Laissez Faire reefkeeper to have gone your route.  I admire your tanks and particularly your TLC of the animals under your care.

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On 3/3/2018 at 9:18 PM, vlangel said:

Thanks Rene, I really like the color macros can add without a lot of work, plus they are a nutrient export.

 

I love the GSP in the beginning of this video-the pinkish looking centers are so unique! Tank looks fantastic and I'm glad Eve is doing well! She's a grand old lady. :smilie:

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I rethought what I said about sponges and how I feed them phytoplankton.  Actually, I don’t know if sponges eat phytoplankton.  Many other things eat phytoplankton..  I do know what cryptic sponges eat.  They eat DOC.  DOC is composed of the byproduct of photosynthesis.   The sponges that I got from live_plants are hardy.  They may be the best biofilter for your ponies.  I don’t know.   Try it, they may surprise you.

 

PSS:   I just looked at the video that you posted March 3, 2018.  Your tank is absolutely gorgeous.

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10 hours ago, Lula_Mae said:

I love the GSP in the beginning of this video-the pinkish looking centers are so unique! Tank looks fantastic and I'm glad Eve is doing well! She's a grand old lady. :smilie:

I love the GPS too, along with the xenia.  So many folks hate on them but I love them.  Yes Eve is indeed a grand old lady.

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On 5/30/2018 at 2:41 PM, Subsea said:

I encourage high nutrients.  When I see cynobacteria instead of going for phosphate removal resin, I add a nitrogen source to combine with phosphate to encourage growth of desirables.

 

@vlangel

I am too much of a Laissez Faire reefkeeper to have gone your route.  I admire your tanks and particularly your TLC of the animals under your care.

 

5 hours ago, Subsea said:

I rethought what I said about sponges and how I feed them phytoplankton.  Actually, I don’t know if sponges eat phytoplankton.  Many other things eat phytoplankton..  I do know what cryptic sponges eat.  They eat DOC.  DOC is composed of the byproduct of photosynthesis.   The sponges that I got from live_plants are hardy.  They may be the best biofilter for your ponies.  I don’t know.   Try it, they may surprise you.

 

PSS:   I just looked at the video that you posted March 3, 2018.  Your tank is absolutely gorgeous.

I am weak in the chemistry aspect of reefing.  Would you mind explaining about adding a nitrogen source to combine with phosphates and how that helps with getting rid of cyano?  I would be grateful as I have either cyano or diatoms on my sandbed.  I do not want to use a GFO.

 

Ha ha, I look forward to someday being a Laissez Faire reefkeeper myself some day.  I adore my ponies and I am committed to giving them my best but I will not be having seahorses the rest of my life.  I will enjoy them for this season of life and then I will relax a bit.

 

I had read what you wrote on cryptic sponges on RC and I also thought that they might be an excellant biofilter for the ponies.  I have even considered setting up the 30 gallon XH between the seahorse display and the sump as a place for cryptic sponges.  I need to weigh in on another tank to keep an eye out for detritus/debris settling in it and if I want to maintenance another tank.  Its definitely on my radar though.

 

Thanks for the kind words about my tank.

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I do think that a cryptic zone refugium would be beneficial to the high nutrient pony tank.  I see no reason that a standard sump would not be a cryptic zone refugiumm.  Cryptic sponges will form on glass sides.  They need nothing special to attach to.  In a small area, I would use eggcrate to increase surface area.

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With respect to dealing with phosphate as evidenced by cynobacteria, I choose to add nitrogen so that when other algae begins to grow it combines in the Redfield Ratio of 106/16/1 of carbon/nitrogen/Phosphate.   When algae grows, it is not limited by the highest nutrient but by the lowest nutrient.    Cynobacteria has a unique place in evolution in that it combines properties of bacteria and algae.  Cynobacteria has the unique ability of being able to convert inert nitrogen gas into a nitrate molecule.  Cynobacteria is the “nitrogen pump” for planet earth.

 

http://www.els.net/WileyCDA/ElsArticle/refId-a0021159.html

 

what that means for us in our reef tanks is that if there is phosphate in our system, Cynobacteria grabs both nitrogen and carbon from the athmosphere using photosynthesis to convert inorganic nutrients into organic biomass.  So, by adding a nitrogen molecule; macro algae can combine with carbon, nitrogen and phosphate and use the phosphate before the Cynobacteria can get it.

 

PSS:  I should add that coral needs tha same minerals & nutrients that algae and cynobacteria  need.

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On 5/31/2018 at 6:34 PM, Subsea said:

I do think that a cryptic zone refugium would be beneficial to the high nutrient pony tank.  I see no reason that a standard sump would not be a cryptic zone refugiumm.  Cryptic sponges will form on glass sides.  They need nothing special to attach to.  In a small area, I would use eggcrate to increase surface area.

The problem with converting my 20 L into a cryptic zone it that the tank is too shallow.  With my large water changes 3Xs a week, the sponges would be subjected to air in the fuge chamber because I have a 5" DSB. 

So as I read more about cryptic sponges however, I agree with you even more that they could be very valuable to the seahorse tank.  My 30 gallon XH is painted on the back.  I could place it beside the sump at the return end with the painted side toward the sump.  Then I could tee off the return pump (via manifold) and run a little flow into the cryptic zone and have an overflow box return it to the return chamber where the bulk of the flow is returning to the display.  That way when I turn off the return pump, the sponges will stay submerged.  What do you think?

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3 minutes ago, vlangel said:

The problem with converting my 20 L into a cryptic zone it that the tank is too shallow.  With my large water changes 3Xs a week, the sponges would be subjected to air in the fuge chamber because I have a 5" DSB. 

So as I read more about cryptic sponges however, I agree with you even more that they could be very valuable to the seahorse tank.  My 30 gallon XH is painted on the back.  I could place it beside the sump at the return end with the painted side toward the sump.  Then I could tee off the return pump (via manifold) and run a little flow into the cryptic zone and have an overflow box return it to the return chamber where the bulk of the flow is returning to the display.  That way when I turn off the return pump, the sponges will stay submerged.  What do you think?

If you have the room, it is a good plan.  Before I turned out the lights in my mud/macro refugium, I had 25 years worth of worms, micro starfish and pods with the macro algae.  MY refugium has  absolutely no algae that I can see, but there are numerous pods, micro stars and worms with lights out for eight months.  

 

At this time are you using GAC?

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29 minutes ago, Subsea said:

If you have the room, it is a good plan.  Before I turned out the lights in my mud/macro refugium, I had 25 years worth of worms, micro starfish and pods with the macro algae.  MY refugium has  absolutely no algae that I can see, but there are numerous pods, micro stars and worms with lights out for eight months.  

 

At this time are you using GAC?

I do have the room in my basement fishroom, I think.  It should be fairly cheap to do because all I need is some plumbing.  I think I have everything else.

 

I am using GAC.  With my tank having leathers, palys and other chemical warfare coral, I have always used GAC.  Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

 

Back to combatting cyano with a nitrogen source, do you use something like Seachem Flourish nitogen or something else?

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@vlangel

Stick with Seachem.  I have heard that people use potassium nitrate, which is available from Home Depot as stump remover.  For my large systems, it is much more economical to use ammonia.  

 

GAC is a good thing to use.  However, it will compete with cryptic sponges for some things.  I would not discontinue  its use.  Once you introduce cryptic zone, then  I would cut back 50% on the GAC and see how system responds.

 

 

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As I further think on your integration of cryptic zone filtration into your seahorse system, I should qualify who benefits the most.  The corals will benefit the most.  You are already providing for your ponies needs.  Using GAC and cryptic zone fitration  could easily eliminate the need for water changes.  As you have already found out, mechanical filtration, particularly of the substrate, is critical for your ponies.  Depending on the volume of waste from ponies, I feel that macro algae might serve you better.  I don’t use ATS because with my large systems, it is very convenient to use a lot of utilitarian and ornamental macro in the display tank.  Pods and fish both like it.   Bacteria, algae, sponges and corals provide perfect food webs that recycle inorganic nutrients into live organic food for both coral and fish.

 

I was curious as to what is your use of detrivores in your sand-bed.  It seems like bristle worms, micro starfish and Cerith Snails could easily maintain your sandbed with vacuuming help from you.

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Its weird but the DSB portion of the tank stays clean.  Its the shallow portion of the sandbed that is the problem.  I do have bristleworms, and loads of microstars.  I have nassarius and trocus snails but cerith.  The DSB portion is a lot more shaded with coral and macros where the SSB is pretty wide open so I think the light is definitely a factor.

 

 

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I did a big cleaning yesterday.  The ponies are all doing well and except the rust on top of the shallow sand the tank looks good too.  I do know my filters need changed in the RO/DI, so who knows if maybe that is partly to blame.  As long as the seahorses stay healthy I am a happy aquarist!

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On 6/3/2018 at 12:59 PM, vlangel said:

Its weird but the DSB portion of the tank stays clean.  Its the shallow portion of the sandbed that is the problem.  I do have bristleworms, and loads of microstars.  I have nassarius and trocus snails but cerith.  The DSB portion is a lot more shaded with coral and macros where the SSB is pretty wide open so I think the light is definitely a factor.

 

 

You are correct, the light is the issue. 

 

 

http://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/water-quality/algae-phytoplankton-chlorophyll/#algae1

 

 

This link has much info about algae.  For me the most surprising  part was that “dinoflagellates & diatoms are marine phytoplankton “.

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5 hours ago, Subsea said:

You are correct, the light is the issue. 

 

 

http://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/water-quality/algae-phytoplankton-chlorophyll/#algae1

 

 

This link has much info about algae.  For me the most surprising  part was that “dinoflagellates & diatoms are marine phytoplankton “.

Wow, that was an info packed linked.  I am afraid that much of it went over my head like chlorophyll A , B , C, D.  Then add the chemistry and I was done, ha ha!  

 

I agree however, I did not know that dinos , cyano and diatoms were phytoplanktons.  It was an I interesting article for sure.

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Sharbuckle
10 minutes ago, vlangel said:

Wow, that was an info packed linked.  I am afraid that much of it went over my head like chlorophyll A , B , C, D.  Then add the chemistry and I was done, ha ha!  

 

I agree however, I did not know that dinos , cyano and diatoms were phytoplanktons.  It was an I interesting article for sure.

I also did not know that! 

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6 hours ago, Subsea said:

You are correct, the light is the issue. 

 

 

http://www.fondriest.com/environmental-measurements/parameters/water-quality/algae-phytoplankton-chlorophyll/#algae1

 

 

This link has much info about algae.  For me the most surprising  part was that “dinoflagellates & diatoms are marine phytoplankton “.

 

That is a Fantastic read. I'm totally saving it, and dialing back my lights as soon as I get home. 

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I am preparing for a week's vacation which is always stressful with seahorses.  I had tested my water for nitrates and phosphates for the 1st time since adding sand.  Both were up and I thought the sand was to blame.  I did a good cleaning, Xtra big water changes and there was no change.  Ha ha, then I remembered that it's been forever since my ro/di has been changed.  I had resin so I started with that.

Both resin containers looked like the one in the foreground!  Do you think they badly needed changed? (She hangs her head in shame)

Now that the resin is fresh my phosphates should come down. I am hoping my ratio of nitrates and phosphates will be more in line and the diatoms that are on the sand will go away.  I am so ashamed to admit that both canisters looked like the one in the front. 😶

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