Nitrites too high during cycle? Help please!

[seabass]

While there is nothing wrong with dosing more bacteria, it isn't necessary. Since you haven't purchased it yet, your call on what you want to do. I'd probably just watch to see if nitrite continues to go down (to 0.2ppm), then dose some more ammonia chloride (up to 2ppm of ammonia), let it come down again, and continue until your tank can process 2ppm (down to 0.2ppm) in 24 hours.

[xilez]

Current Nitrites levels after 12 hours (ammonia still 0)

 

 

Noticeable difference from a couple days ago pre water change

 

 

I've noticed some white "goop" in my sump and pretty much covering anything plastic in my display tank (Jebao pump for example), you can see where I wiped my finger with it... Considering this is dry rock and live sand, I probably shouldn't be concerned

 

[seabass]

The white residue is probably the ultra fine particles from your sand that caused the initial cloudiness. It's likely attached to the newly forming bio-film that's growing on the surfaces. You can simply wipe it off.

[xilez]

Seabass you deserve a medal

[Clown79]

I have noticed a trend with new tanks and cycling.

 

 

Dry rock and ammonia dosing=leads to confusion, stalled cycles, more confusion. Every single thread seems to come up with problems while cycling in this method.

 

 

I have always cycled my tanks with either all liverock or a percentage of LR and dry rock. Never had issues. Smooth cycle, never stalled, no spikes, and the longest cycle was 6 weeks(used mostly dry rock in that tank)

[seabass]

Dry rock and ammonia dosing=leads to confusion, stalled cycles, more confusion. Every single thread seems to come up with problems while cycling in this method.

 

I have always cycled my tanks with either all liverock or a percentage of LR and dry rock. Never had issues. Smooth cycle, never stalled, no spikes, and the longest cycle was 6 weeks(used mostly dry rock in that tank)

That's because:

• It's a fairly new process, so people aren't as familiar with it.
• Threads get started because of a problem or a question. Threads tend not to get started when everything works as anticipated.
• It opens the possibility of user error (like overdosing, not following instructions, or not testing).

However, it works when you follow the instructions. Even in this case, the tips and troubleshooting instructions state, "IMPORTANT – Do not let the ammonia OR nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm. If either ammonia or nitrite concentration get above 5 ppm, do water changes to lower the concentration."

 

There are a number of reasons why you would choose not to use live rock, incuding:

• You are against the harvesting of live rock from the ocean (and the impact that may have on these environments).
• You don't want to introduce pests and algae.
• It is easier to create an intricate aquascape with dry rock.

Also, you can use this in conjunction with live rock (especially uncured live rock) by first building up a strong bio-filter, and then introducing your live rock. The established bio-filter will help soften the ammonia spike from the live rock, and help preserve some of the biodiversity.

 

The traditional way of cycling live rock (which is usually pre-cured prior to shipping or by a LFS) is more of a wet and forget method. It's basically foolproof.

 

However, this method is here to stay. It's a vast improvement over ghost feeding or leaving a dead shrimp to rot in your tank. And it provides an established bio-filter which can fully support a small bio-load.

[Clown79]

I've never attempted ghost feeding or the shrimp, its adding waste to the tank upon starting which we all know will aid in future problems

[nancymatthews]

Xilez, I see you on ARC. Lol. Hi neighbor.

[xilez]

Hi Nancy

Update on this: Nitrites are below .5ppm since water change... Dr Tims recommended I go ahead and dose 2ppm again, so I will be doing that tonight after work.

[RobSpeed13]

I have noticed a trend with new tanks and cycling.

 

 

Dry rock and ammonia dosing=leads to confusion, stalled cycles, more confusion. Every single thread seems to come up with problems while cycling in this method.

 

 

I have always cycled my tanks with either all liverock or a percentage of LR and dry rock. Never had issues. Smooth cycle, never stalled, no spikes, and the longest cycle was 6 weeks(used mostly dry rock in that tank)

I'll agree with the LR/Dry Rock combo, think when i set up my first reef tank i did 50lbs dry rock, 25lbs live rock to begin my cycle with.

[xilez]

Update: I seem to be converting ammonia in about 30 hours, Nitrites still lagging behind. Looks to be about 2ppm- <5ppm, hopefully these catch up

[seabass]

I feel that you are close. As long as nitrite stays below 5ppm, I think you should be fine. Now you could either let ammonia become undetectable and then add a small cleanup crew of carnivores and omnivores, or (just to be sure) you could wait until both nitrite and ammonia reach 0.2ppm and then dose another round of ammonium chloride.

 

Note: Before adding livestock, verify that ammonia is undetectable and that nitrate is 10ppm or less.

[xilez]

I have been doing my cycle with the lights off, will I have anything for the clean up crew to feed on? I have zero diatom bloom.

[seabass]

That's why I said carnivores and omnivores (nassarius and cerith snails, with or without an optional dwarf blue leg hermit crab). Until you get a fish, you can feed them a (very) little fish food once or twice a week. Wait until you get a little algae before adding any herbivores.

[Jayva]

Get the bio spira. I had the same thing your going thru. I poured it in checked the next morning. Ammonia and nitrites 0 nitrates 10. Did a 50% water change and bought clean up crew. Check the dates on the bottle. I got lucky and found one made a few months ago.

[Jayva]

As for the snails. Hold off on them. My tank was too clean they all died of starvation. I never got algae or diatom blooms because I use distilled water and run chaeto. The hermits are fine cus I fed them flakes.

[xilez]

Nitrites don't seem to be moving much, getting a little frustrated. I understand this hobby takes patience, but entering week 4 I should be seeing progress at this point even if its something small.

[brandon429]

curious

 

considering the evidence in the link posted above from RHF saying don't measure nitrites, and the several tanks we cycled without measuring them, why still measure? Im aware the Dr Tims says to, but that still doesn't exclude the links from Randy Holmes Farley saying you are basing your cycle on an inert species of nitrogen for the type of tanks we run. still want to convince ya to google up nitrite in the reef tank/RHF article and see if the metabolite seems as concerning after the article.

 

Its totally ok to base your cycle solely around what nitrite does, I just hate to see the headaches/frustr when its literally not a test you should own but its your headache to keep or discard lol reefing is crazy like that.

 

In the very least we have documented tank after tank opting out of it, and how those cycles complied with 30 days + hydration +some bottle bac + some ammonia just fine.

 

 

Starting with a clean water palette (changing all the water) was planned for a reason, I remember that seemed harsh at the time and it is hard to get these things in compliance using combined methods clearly

 

but a fresh start was a solid plan for a reason... within 30 days your tank will be able to manage a small bioload either way and whether or not you can get that reading off unverified API at low levels still doesn't impact the actual timeframes involved in fishless cycles.

[seabass]

So this is what I'd do:

• stop dosing ammonia
• let ammonia become undetectable
• do a large water change to bring down nitrite and to get nitrate below 10ppm
• slowly add a bio-load (small fish, or cleanup crew of carnivores and omnivores)

[seabass]

considering the evidence in the link posted above from RHF saying don't measure nitrites, and the several tanks we cycled without measuring them, why still measure? Im aware the Dr Tims says to, but that still doesn't exclude the links I put from Randy Holmes Farley saying you are basing your cycle on an inert species of nitrogen

Because it appears that high nitrite levels can impede the nitrite oxidizing bacteria. I assume that dosing ammonium chloride has the potential to cause this high nitrite condition (whereas normal cycling with live rock does not).

 

In general, as you state, nitrite is a non-issue. I myself haven't tested nitrite since doing my two part series about water changes during the cycle. I think the key here is to get them down to levels that don't inhibit these bacteria. However, we know (based on the presence of nitrate) that these bacteria are present; so I think it is safe to say that xilez can proceed as I outlined above.

[brandon429]

I don't agree it impedes a cycle at the current guessed levels

 

we keep not using the test and cycling hundreds of tanks here

http://reef2reef.com/threads/new-tank-cycling-tank-bacteria-and-cocktail-shrimp-live-rock-no-shrimp.214618/

 

our thread isn't starting with out of balance metabolites etc, backtrack correcting etc, that makes for problem cycles and then factoring unverified testing... All that is correctable here.

 

We are left still here today with a seeming non compliant cycle due to conducting things oppositely of our condensed cycling thread it's too many pages of completed cycles to not factor, all nitrite free

 

I don't mind watching the thread unfold it's good documentation anyway because it will still comply by day 30 it's just going to be a pain until then.

 

Hint:

Full water change, start clean. Or don't, you'll get three month api cycle heh

[seabass]

I don't agree it impedes a cycle...

Yeah, this is the stumbling block. I have verified that high ammonia can impede (slow down) the establishment of the nitrogen cycle. However, I have not verified that that high nitrite can do the same. I am basing this assumption solely on the instructions provided by DrTim's Aquatics.

 

If you dismiss the possibility that high levels can impede a cycle, then I agree with you. I also agree that a 100% water change will remove these high levels and eliminate any concern about high levels affecting the normal functioning of the nitrogen cycle.

[seabass]

The other issue here is that it's only been a few days since the OP has dosed ammonia. Expecting immediate nitrite falloff, or even nitrite falloff at the same rate as ammonia might not be reasonable.

 

There is no indication that the cycle has stalled (or is a problem cycle). This is a process that can take weeks not days. Plus, there are a number of factors which can affect this timeline (organics in the system, initial bacteria populations, amount of ammonia dosed, etc).

[xilez]

Thanks for all the input from both of you!

 

Going to wait and see how long it takes ammonia to drop. When I test tonight, that will mark 3 days since dosing ammonia. I was just under the impression that 3 full weeks in, it should be dropping faster than 3 days...but like you said many things can factor in.

[xilez]

Should I start to introduce a light cycle? As I said in my previous post, today marks the start of week 4. Possibly if I did a light cycle I might see a diatom bloom towards the end of the week?