Draogonets (Yes. First time topic title)

[Meexpec]

I've done hours and hours of research on dragonets (never kept any myself, so obviously take all of this with a grain of salt) and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that most of the available resources on them are flat-out wrong. A number of highly successful breeders keep and breed mandarins in 10-20 gallon tanks and have for years, because their fish are trained to eat frozen and are well-taken care of. Of course, there are plenty of stories of dragonets eating frozen that die--and that's because they're not fed often enough.

 

I've seen on this forum (I think it was the dragonet show-off thread, which btw is amazing and full of TONS of info) the care of dragonets compared to that of seahorses. I think that's a great comparison: they're both not for beginners, require special care, need extremely frequent feedings, and were once thought impossible to keep but now many are having success. From everything I've read, I think it's perfectly acceptable for experienced, dedicated people to keep dragonets in nano tanks--and I even think it may be the best way to keep them.

 

Without disrespecting anyone, I'd like to say that I don't think putting a dragonet in a huge system "full of pods" is a really good plan. I think relying entirely on nature to feed a dragonet simply isn't feasible in the types of artificial systems we have. I'd even go so far to say that it's a little irresponsible--in the wild, dragonets clear out incredible amounts of pods and it's hard to reproduce that. And if you're going to that much trouble to breed pods through refugiums or whatever, you probably have enough time to train the fish on frozen and feed it 3 or 4 or 5 times a day.

 

Anyways, that's just my two cents. Again, I've never kept dragonets so if you wanna ignore everything I said go ahead lol. But I've done a lot (probably too much) reading and thinking on this topic and this is what I've come up with.

[Clown79]

It might be more feasible to start a refugium with chaeto and develop your own pods for the mandarin.

 

This is what a lot of ppl do because buying pods in the qty that mandarins require, starts getting very expensive.

 

Mandarins costantly eat so a smaller tank can't produce the amount of pods they require.

[Astinus]

It might be more feasible to start a refugium with chaeto and develop your own pods for the mandarin.

 

This is what a lot of ppl do because buying pods in the qty that mandarins require, starts getting very expensive.

 

Mandarins costantly eat so a smaller tank can't produce the amount of pods they require.

Exactly the reason I am having to forgo my desires for any Dragonette. We do have pods swimming around, but not feasible

for us. I am sumpless (refugium).

[msparklym13]

I've done hours and hours of research on dragonets (never kept any myself, so obviously take all of this with a grain of salt) and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that most of the available resources on them are flat-out wrong. A number of highly successful breeders keep and breed mandarins in 10-20 gallon tanks and have for years, because their fish are trained to eat frozen and are well-taken care of. Of course, there are plenty of stories of dragonets eating frozen that die--and that's because they're not fed often enough.

 

I've seen on this forum (I think it was the dragonet show-off thread, which btw is amazing and full of TONS of info) the care of dragonets compared to that of seahorses. I think that's a great comparison: they're both not for beginners, require special care, need extremely frequent feedings, and were once thought impossible to keep but now many are having success. From everything I've read, I think it's perfectly acceptable for experienced, dedicated people to keep dragonets in nano tanks--and I even think it may be the best way to keep them.

 

Without disrespecting anyone, I'd like to say that I don't think putting a dragonet in a huge system "full of pods" is a really good plan. I think relying entirely on nature to feed a dragonet simply isn't feasible in the types of artificial systems we have. I'd even go so far to say that it's a little irresponsible--in the wild, dragonets clear out incredible amounts of pods and it's hard to reproduce that. And if you're going to that much trouble to breed pods through refugiums or whatever, you probably have enough time to train the fish on frozen and feed it 3 or 4 or 5 times a day.

 

Anyways, that's just my two cents. Again, I've never kept dragonets so if you wanna ignore everything I said go ahead lol. But I've done a lot (probably too much) reading and thinking on this topic and this is what I've come up with.

Great post and I agree. Research is key!!

[msparklym13]

Everyone's comments are really great and so informative.

 

Having my tank has been a really difficult (ongoing) journey in maturity. Sometimes I feel like a little kid all over again- listening to people's advice but then thinking---"They don't know MY situation it will be different!" Nope. EVERY time I have tried methods the more advanced reefers warned against it has been a giant fail. I am 17 all over again and swearing my parents don't know what they are talking about! Ha! I am convinced my tank is my inner rebellious teen since I have to be such an adult inl other areas of my life.

 

I have overstocked my tank, tried to cure Ich without quarantine and gone without a good skimmer to name a few. Now I am dumping 50 dollars worth of pods in my tank in the middle of the night and trying to train a Mandarin with a tube.

 

Your instinct is spot on and doing your research will make your tank amazing! If you take anything from this thread listen to the phenomenal experienced reefers who selflessly take us under their wing! Every mistake I make I learn from and don't make the same again. However if I had just listened to our tank elders I would have avoided a great deal of disappointment. My Mandarin will be my LAST wild card ;-) We are so lucky to have people like Stella, Astinus, Clown79, and Newstead who tirelessly answer our questions without being condescending. They have each helped me so much over the past year!! Good luck!

 

Best,

Marianne

[msparklym13]

Update on Picassa- She is still thin and I am dosing with pods and feeding the pods daily. I feel stupid..I wish she was back in the ocean and know I made the wrong move having her in my tank :-(((((

[Reef Queso]

Update on Picassa- She is still thin and I am dosing with pods and feeding the pods daily. I feel stupid..I wish she was back in the ocean and know I made the wrong move having her in my tank :-(((((

 

 

At least she wasn't bought by my buddy who buys a new one about every other month to have it die two weeks later. What pods are you dosing? I tried tigger and they were too fast for my mandarin. I found tisbe reef pods on ebay and had them shipped but dosing those was making my nitrates spike.

 

Gave up on the pods and trained to eat frozen. I had that mandarin for 6 months fed hikari mysis 3 times a day. Then one day, it was gone. Have a top on the aquarium so it couldn't have jumped out. No skeleton, no trace. It was either abducted by aliens or completely devoured by my stupid coral banded shrimp.

[ReefWeeds]

Update on Picassa- She is still thin and I am dosing with pods and feeding the pods daily. I feel stupid..I wish she was back in the ocean and know I made the wrong move having her in my tank :-(((((

Aww can you find someone local that will take her? Or will the LFS trade her in for credit? It is no fun dealing with that, M.

And LOL - you give me way too much credit, Marianne!! I'm still a noob myself! And we all make mistakes. That's how we learn. And we've all thought "oh, but I can do this, my situation is different and I'll show them they don't know what they're talking about" only to fail miserably!!

[Astinus]

I am grateful this thread exists! At the time this thread started I mentioned my interest in pursuing this beautiful fish.

I Did my "Homework" And researched and I too felt that I could do it. Since this thread, I am totally convinced that this fish is best left in the Ocean, where it belongs. However, with that said, it should only be kept by truly advanced aquarists.

msparklym, We all learn from our mistakes and hope we don't repeat them. As Stella has said, See if u can return "Picassa" to ur LFS for store credit? (((Hugs)))

[ezcompany]

Update on Picassa- She is still thin and I am dosing with pods and feeding the pods daily. I feel stupid..I wish she was back in the ocean and know I made the wrong move having her in my tank :-(((((

 

Have you tried Piscine Energetics Mysis Shrimp yet?

My Target has been getting better at recognizing my feeding stick to eat at least one large shrimp a day. I have the PE mysis soak in AF Fish Vit and Selcon overnight to cover as much nutrients as I can, (and because it is a freshwater mysis species that may lack nutrients required in marine fish) not to mention the PE mysis are supposed to be flash frozen gut loaded with undigested phyto. On a good day he will eat up to 4 large shrimp and look plump. Definitely takes time and patience, but very very satisfying to see each time he feeds.

You can try fish roe too from the Asian market if you have one. Good luck.

[msparklym13]

 

 

At least she wasn't bought by my buddy who buys a new one about every other month to have it die two weeks later. What pods are you dosing? I tried tigger and they were too fast for my mandarin. I found tisbe reef pods on ebay and had them shipped but dosing those was making my nitrates spike.

 

Gave up on the pods and trained to eat frozen. I had that mandarin for 6 months fed hikari mysis 3 times a day. Then one day, it was gone. Have a top on the aquarium so it couldn't have jumped out. No skeleton, no trace. It was either abducted by aliens or completely devoured by my stupid coral banded shrimp.

This is sick. However I have become friends with my LFS employees (Closed a month ago) and they had tons of customers just like your buddy. They would buy sharks and big fish only to have them die within a month. They had tons of money and just didn't care. I would love to pick your brain on how you trained. I am using a feeding tube with Reef Caviar and she is not interested. I keep trying and won't stop!

If it makes you feel any better I had a Royal Gramma the same- Just gone- no trace, no water spikes never found a skeleton- Nada! Fish Aliens..... Same as the Aliens who take my other sock and all of my hair ties!

 

Aww can you find someone local that will take her? Or will the LFS trade her in for credit? It is no fun dealing with that, M.

And LOL - you give me way too much credit, Marianne!! I'm still a noob myself! And we all make mistakes. That's how we learn. And we've all thought "oh, but I can do this, my situation is different and I'll show them they don't know what they're talking about" only to fail miserably!!

 

Thanks so much! You know you are my "go to" for advice/support! I am super bummed because my LFS is "moving". I haven't seen anything about their new location (stalking/hearing they aren't reopening) and becoming friends with a store about 15 miles away. I have become super protective and worry if a store takes her they will just throw her in a tank and not worry if she dies. After MACNA I am now feeding the pods daily and have increased bags of pods. I looked back and she has officially been in my tank 3 months next week. I have spent a little over $600 in three months. Obviously it isn't something to be excited about I just hope people read this thread and see what it takes to keep a Mandarin alive- Alive but still so thin :-( As I get to know the new store I might send her to them but only when I can trust the store. Major fish fail and I will always remember this lesson :-(

I am grateful this thread exists! At the time this thread started I mentioned my interest in pursuing this beautiful fish.

I Did my "Homework" And researched and I too felt that I could do it. Since this thread, I am totally convinced that this fish is best left in the Ocean, where it belongs. However, with that said, it should only be kept by truly advanced aquarists.

msparklym, We all learn from our mistakes and hope we don't repeat them. As Stella has said, See if u can return "Picassa" to ur LFS for store credit? (((Hugs)))

You are so right!!! This amazing fish should only be in the ocean- With one exciting change!-- When I met with Algae Barn at MACNA they mentioned partnering with a captive bred Mandarin supplier. Huge! The Mandarins are captive and more important eat foods we can provide. That said I am moving toward only captive bred fish. I know many of you have phenomenal large tanks that fish can flourish in. However I look at my small tank with happy captive Clowns and know I made the right decision. A small reef tank is something we can all cherish. We can provide the right resources for frags and watch them flourish. What I truly cherish with my Nano friends is we learn from one another, support a friend who is trying and most important work to find great outcomes for the fins we love!

Thank you so much!!! xo

 

 

Have you tried Piscine Energetics Mysis Shrimp yet?

My Target has been getting better at recognizing my feeding stick to eat at least one large shrimp a day. I have the PE mysis soak in AF Fish Vit and Selcon overnight to cover as much nutrients as I can, (and because it is a freshwater mysis species that may lack nutrients required in marine fish) not to mention the PE mysis are supposed to be flash frozen gut loaded with undigested phyto. On a good day he will eat up to 4 large shrimp and look plump. Definitely takes time and patience, but very very satisfying to see each time he feeds.

You can try fish roe too from the Asian market if you have one. Good luck.

No I haven't. I will see what I can find to make it happen! THANK YOU!!

[Astinus]

msparklym, here is a thread regarding "Training" Mandys to eat frozen.

http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/256327-the-many-methods-of-training-dragonets/

 

It can be done and with success.

[Reef Queso]

This is sick. However I have become friends with my LFS employees (Closed a month ago) and they had tons of customers just like your buddy. They would buy sharks and big fish only to have them die within a month. They had tons of money and just didn't care. I would love to pick your brain on how you trained. I am using a feeding tube with Reef Caviar and she is not interested. I keep trying and won't stop!

If it makes you feel any better I had a Royal Gramma the same- Just gone- no trace, no water spikes never found a skeleton- Nada! Fish Aliens..... Same as the Aliens who take my other sock and all of my hair ties!

 

Is that where all my socks are going?

 

I turned off the pumps, and using thawed and rinsed mysis, sucked up a couple in a pipette and just squirted one or two out at a time and that little mandarin went to town. I thought maybe they were too big, because we're talking about going from a teenie tiny copepod to a shrimp lol. She would eat three or four and I was scared I would over feed her so I just did that in the morning, on my lunch breaks, and when I came home form work.

[Astinus]

That's Awesome Reef Queso!

[Reef Queso]

Hey Astinus don't be posting links while I'm typing a response lol! Pryor to pipetting my mandarin of course I blasted mysid for the other fish first.

[Astinus]

lol! Oops

[Reef Queso]

Just kidding of course! Thought that was funny, as I was typing that a notification popped up that you replied! Awesome link by the way!

 

And as far as captive bred fish, I agree, in my opinion captive is the way to go.

 

Anytime I've purchased a fish that had ich or died I'm just wondering how long does it take for someone to put on scuba gear (or lets say a boat pulling a net along capturing many species at once), go into the ocean, capture something, bag it up, ship it, LFS recieves and unpacks, places in tank, then you walk in, bag it, take it home and unpack it, only to for the little guy to be extremely stressed and to the point of probably dying. The only way these fish will truly strive is to be in a "simulated reef" which I'm sure many in the hobby don't have the space or funds to build. Many of use do however.

 

At the same time, buying a captive bred fish is born in a tank and has only known being in a tank. Unless of course a fish shares the same chemistry that a lion does and even tho born in captivity, they are truly only happy eating their owners.

[Astinus]

Thanks

When I was doing my "Research" I found that thread.

[AWillroth]

We've had some success with a pair of ruby red dragonets in a 75 at my work. I wouldn't underestimate the importance of not having lots or any large fish in the tank. They consume way more of the micro fauna in our tank than I think we realize. We have 2 dragonets and a banded pipefish in the tank and all are plump.

[msparklym13]

 

Is that where all my socks are going?

 

I turned off the pumps, and using thawed and rinsed mysis, sucked up a couple in a pipette and just squirted one or two out at a time and that little mandarin went to town. I thought maybe they were too big, because we're talking about going from a teenie tiny copepod to a shrimp lol. She would eat three or four and I was scared I would over feed her so I just did that in the morning, on my lunch breaks, and when I came home form work.

OK this sounds stupid but what do you mean by rinsed mysis? Would you please explain? Stella told me about some food to try and I am willing to try pretty much anything to see if I get a hit. I just bought a new food squirter. So far I have been adding reef caviar and she doesn't get scared of the tube but shows no interest in it. Today I got so excited because I thought she was chomping some but no- just found a pod :-(

We've had some success with a pair of ruby red dragonets in a 75 at my work. I wouldn't underestimate the importance of not having lots or any large fish in the tank. They consume way more of the micro fauna in our tank than I think we realize. We have 2 dragonets and a banded pipefish in the tank and all are plump.

Wow awesome! I have a pair of clowns and I know they don't mess with her food. They only show interest in food near the top and sleep by the power head. I have never seen them go near the sand even when tons of food is laying around.

[msparklym13]

Just kidding of course! Thought that was funny, as I was typing that a notification popped up that you replied! Awesome link by the way!

 

And as far as captive bred fish, I agree, in my opinion captive is the way to go.

 

Anytime I've purchased a fish that had ich or died I'm just wondering how long does it take for someone to put on scuba gear (or lets say a boat pulling a net along capturing many species at once), go into the ocean, capture something, bag it up, ship it, LFS recieves and unpacks, places in tank, then you walk in, bag it, take it home and unpack it, only to for the little guy to be extremely stressed and to the point of probably dying. The only way these fish will truly strive is to be in a "simulated reef" which I'm sure many in the hobby don't have the space or funds to build. Many of use do however.

 

At the same time, buying a captive bred fish is born in a tank and has only known being in a tank. Unless of course a fish shares the same chemistry that a lion does and even tho born in captivity, they are truly only happy eating their owners.

Me too- It is the reason I am trying so hard with Picassa. It just bums me out thinking of this poor fish happy in its habitat only to be plucked and thrown into my little tank. When I first started I didn't think about where the fish were coming from. I guess it didn't occur to me even though I volunteer at the local animal shelter and read about puppy mills. I know some have amazing, huge tanks fish can flourish in but the thought of an ocean fish moving to my puny tank has made me rethink the hobby. After going to MACNA I was thrilled at how many people are dedicating themselves to captive bred options. I will gladly pay double or triple by supporting captive initiatives. My clowns are so darn happy and probably think their home is a step up from the overcrowded captive clown tank they were in! Or at least I tell myself that... except for f%7## Cleo who loves to nip at me whenever I put my hand in- I thought we would be BFF(Best Fish Friends) since I cured his mouth parasite last month!

[Reef Queso]

I just use Hikari Mysis, and the I drop the cube into a 5.5oz disposable salsa cup with some tank water. Then after it thaws I pour that into a Tetra brand "Softnet" (super fine mesh net) and run it under tap water, fill the cup back up with tank water and then dip the net into the cup to transfer the shrimp back in. Then use a pipette, suck up the shrimp and dispense it in front of the fish. Takes about 5 minutes total to thaw and then rinse.

 

If you thaw the shrimp in a cup with tank water you end up transferring the suspension water from the cube into your tank. i just simply rinse to eliminate contaminating my tank water with unknown source water.

 

Sorry if this isn't clear, but it's about as straight forward as I can describe the process.

[E.Y.]

I do the same. I read that the cube water can be nasty so it is always best to rise the shrimp or whatever the cube consists of first before adding it to the tank .

[Dekon70]

I hope this is OK with nano-reef, but here is a link to making a mandarin feeder.

 

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?154732-So-I-made-my-mandarin-feeder!!!-and-have-a-few-more-Q-s

 

Paul B is on reef central a lot and has had great success using this.

 

HTH

[msparklym13]

I hope this is OK with nano-reef, but here is a link to making a mandarin feeder.

 

http://www.bostonreefers.org/forums/showthread.php?154732-So-I-made-my-mandarin-feeder!!!-and-have-a-few-more-Q-s

 

Paul B is on reef central a lot and has had great success using this.

 

HTH

WHOA!! This is an awesome idea!!!! And actually so easy! I am going to try it!!