Clam dead- help me understand

[cruiZe]

Hello clam friends.

 

April this year I started testing and dosing 2 part to prepare to get a clam.

 

May 21st received from pacific east aquaculture. >>> placed on a rock, on the sand. Clam was always VERY touchy, if you walk by it would flinch closed, then slowly open again.

 

July 13

 

 

Tues July 26 5:30pm - noticed it was less-open than normal.

 

 

here is a pic with flash, I noticed middle section of mantle appeared bleached, but mouth is not gapping (right?)

 

 

Wed July 27 11pm - noticed clam torn to shreds, pulled from tank. Here are 2 pics from this morning.

 

 

 

Test results - all salifert

 

Alk - 7/28/16 9.3 7/25/16 - 9.4 7/22/16 - 8.9

CA - 7/28/16 450 7/25/16 - 450 7/22/16 - 455

MG - 7/28/16 1260

Nitrate - 7/28/16 0

Phosphate - 7/28/16 0 (see below pic)

SG - 7/28/16 1.024 7/22/16 1.023

Temp - 76.8 - 78.7 over the last week +

 

 

 

Apex Jr controlling temp

MP-10 in display

 

Custom Rapid LED 36 setup

• 18 Cree XT-E Royal Blue
• 18 Cree XP-G2 Cool White
• 3 Mean Well ELM-60-48P Drivers
• DCC-01 controller - 45 min sunrise, 8.5 hours @ 30%, 45 min sunset - 10 hours total.

 

 

Possible issues - WC sunday 5 gallons

Temp spike early July to 84 degrees, APEX Jr setup 7/20/16

Dosed phyto feast Tuesday night.

RBTA, frogspawn has bleached over the past few months been lowering light intensity from 50 to 25%

 

TL;DR - Look at the pics, clam died within a day.

[cruiZe]

what else I know- I did not move the clam more than twice in the 2+ months I had it. It was always firmly attached to the rock. Tuesday when I saw it looking "no so open" I rotated the rock 45 degrees to take a better pic. It closed completely retracted and tightly, then opened again within seconds.

 

Dosing phyto feast 2-3x a week, always kept in fridge, i'll have to check the date on it, but last time I smelled it it was sweet and fresh. But it's about 2 months old.

 

Last night when I pulled it from the tank I had to cut the foot, it was still firmly attached to the rock but the clam was wide open and shredded.

 

Other critters Coral Banded Shrimp (was not near it at the time but I saw it close to the clam a few days ago) YWG / Tiger Pistol 2 clowns, huge ass brittle starfish (8") 2 emeralds .

 

Isn't the light color shell new growth ?

 

Other creatures seem ok today, fish, shrimp and star ate fine . 1 frogspawn chunk is still bleached and the RBTA was a little small but it ate some food too.

 

Oh - I'm out of flipping salt. More on the way. Red Sea Coral Pro used always. So I could only do a 3 gallon WC today. 1 more random thing- I cleaned out my brute trash can last weekend, with white vinegar to get deposits off and rinsed multiple times with RODI. Made all the salt water I could with the last of my salt. Changed 5 gallons sunday and 3 gallons today like I said.

[smeagol108]

theres a millions reasons a clam could die, but one of the most common and overlooked is just starvation. I would personally expect it to be open more that it was in your photo from july 13th. Think of it this way, if its getting 95 percent of the light and food it needs every day, its still not enough for it to live long term. shells grow through calcification and maximas can grow pretty quickly increasing their needs for food and light.. starvation is the most common cause of sudden death in clams that I am aware of. frogspawns are pretty low light corals, so turning your lights down for it, may have cost the clam some much needed par.

also, how big is your tank? how high are the lights from the bottom? maximas also like some dirty water as most clams do. have 0 nitrate doesn't help them too much.

sorry you lost your clam, you prob will never know why, just some thoughts to think about before getting another. maybe try a derasa or squamosa next time as they are less light demanding and easier overall than maximas.

good luck!

[cruiZe]

thank you smeagol I appreciate the insight and am leaning to agree it starved .

 

here is a top down from May 24 ... 3 days after I got it. It never opened more than it was in the July 13 pic. Does that mean it never had enough light? How the %* do you tell if it has too little or too much light?!?

 

 

Here is a pic from their site when I bought it . I'll ask what lights they use.

 

 

by measuring the ratio of length to width of the photos (super accurate - not) - theirs is open 22% farther.

[metrokat]

I agree with everything Smeagol said - my first thought is always starvation, if you have ruled out pests like a polyclad flatworm or pyramid snails or whelks.

 

The clam was very small and still needed target feeding. There is no evidence that it uses phyto - it is not known if they do or don't Phyto has been found in clam guts but they are filter feeders, whatever is in your water column they will injest. There have been people that put the clam in a tupperware and dose phyto and let it soak it up. I don't agree with that because touching the clam causes stress and again we don't know if it actual utilizes the phyto or excretes it out.

 

All filter feeders derive their nutrition from filtering the water - be it for detritus, food particles, plankton or nitrates. Clams love ammonia, nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates most of all. The ammonia is a natural on going by product of the aquarium, between fish poop and food rotting, it is ever present and constantly used/converted by the natural biological function and the nitrogen cycle.

 

The lower light probably caused equal stress as low nutrients. I've helped get a gaping clam back to health when at my suggestion, the hobbyist had a lamp 24/7 focussed on the clam in question. It may not work for all clams but it helped his.

 

Clams. Who knows what kills them.

[cruiZe]

 

also, how big is your tank? how high are the lights from the bottom?

 

40 breeder. Lights are 6-8" off the water. Clam was obviously on the bottom so that's a good 14-15" of water , plus the clam was on the side, not the middle. so 22-24" total distance

[smeagol108]

I like kats last statement. Who knows who killed em. Lol. Like she said it's not just the light but nutrients in the water they rely on.

Four ways clams make food for themselves:

These clams have large amounts of zooxanthellae that live in their tissues. With plenty of light this algae will make too much food for themselves and the extra carbon and glucose is given to the clam (similar to most reef corals).

The actual zooxanthellae themselves can be eaten by amoeboid cells within the host clam if needed.

Giant clams have the ability to absorb nutrients like ammonia, nitrate and phosphates from the water.

Giant clams are filter-feeders, straining fine particulates like phytoplankton, zooplankton and detritus from surrounding waters with their specialized gills.

[cruiZe]

 

The clam was very small and still needed target feeding. There is no evidence that it uses phyto -

 

All filter feeders derive their nutrition from filtering the water - be it for detritus, food particles, plankton or nitrates. Clams love ammonia, nitrates and phosphates. Nitrates most of all.

Yes - it was just over 2" shell - What do you suggest feeding? I also feed coral frenzy - wouldn't that help? Guess I need to feed more.

 

 

What else do you suggest to get nitrates and phosphates off zero?

[smeagol108]

coral frenzy will help, selcon added to the water a 2-3 drops every other day, other coral foods, etc.. small clams are the hardest to keep alive. once they hit that 3-4 inch mark they are much more stable and forgiving, but still can die for no apparent reason to the average person overnight.

I really don't think your lights are high enough intensity output for a maxima on the bottom of the tank. how big is the tank? how high are the lights?

 

If you can control your blue and white separately pump those blues as high as they can go. normally it is very difficult to bleach a coral under just blue light ( I am not saying impossible, but very difficult).

[cruiZe]

how big is the tank? how high are the lights?

 

If you can control your blue and white separately pump those blues as high as they can go. normally it is very difficult to bleach a coral under just blue light ( I am not saying impossible, but very difficult).

 

40 breeder. Lights are 6-8" off the water. Clam was obviously on the bottom so that's a good 14-15" of water , plus the clam was on the side, not the middle. so 22-24" total distance

 

I have 3 drivers one powering 12 blue one powering 12 white and one powering 6 of each. This weekend (i was planning on doing this anyway) Turn the blue's up , the mix up, the white down on the drivers... then when i control the %% on the controller, I will be controlling intensity of them all, but have more blue, which will look cooler anyway. ?

[Mariaface]

 

 

 

What else do you suggest to get nitrates and phosphates off zero?

 

 

Feed more!

But really: Feed more for phosphates, and add nitrates if you need to.

 

This thread is worrying me - I've got a 2" maxima sitting under two current orbits, about 8" below them in the center (front and sideways). It's doing surprisingly well so far (since April 17th or so when I got it), even with me brushing the occasional hydroid off of its shell so that it won't irritate the mantle. I feed the messy clown, I add reef snow daily, I feed coral frenzy, reef roids, omega one pellets, BA Restor, almost-daily, etc. And somehow, I caught nitrates at 0ppm the day before yesterday. Another overfeeding brought it up to <1ppm the next day.

 

I don't think I'm above going into my freshwater supplements and grabbing the Seachem nitrate..

 

Or getting rid of my frag rack on the back wall and turning into a magnetic rack for the clam.

[smeagol108]

 

 

Feed more!

But really: Feed more for phosphates, and add nitrates if you need to.

 

This thread is worrying me - I've got a 2" maxima sitting under two current orbits, about 8" below them in the center (front and sideways). It's doing surprisingly well so far (since April 17th or so when I got it), even with me brushing the occasional hydroid off of its shell so that it won't irritate the mantle. I feed the messy clown, I add reef snow daily, I feed coral frenzy, reef roids, omega one pellets, BA Restor, almost-daily, etc. And somehow, I caught nitrates at 0ppm the day before yesterday. Another overfeeding brought it up to <1ppm the next day.

 

I don't think I'm above going into my freshwater supplements and grabbing the Seachem nitrate..

 

Or getting rid of my frag rack on the back wall and turning into a magnetic rack for the clam.

 

I think 8 inches below two orbits will be fine. orbits are pretty rock solid in under 10 inches. and with two of them and all the feeding your doing your prob fine.

 

people knock the orbits, but the coverage and spread you get with them is f'n amazing. way better than any puck based fixture ( I do love my nanobox, but the spread and coverage doesn't compare to all those tiny little leds).

[Mariaface]

 

I think 8 inches below two orbits will be fine. orbits are pretty rock solid in under 10 inches. and with two of them and all the feeding your doing your prob fine.

 

 

Whew. Thanks for the vote of confidence!

[smeagol108]

 

 

Whew. Thanks for the vote of confidence!

you running blues at 100 percent on both of them all day right? (if not I would).

You can prob have your whites all the way up too, but go slower with those. I used to keep both channels 100 percent (whites only for like 3-4 hours tops a day). took a long time to get whites to 100, I started those at like 45 I think. I started blues at 100 with that light right out of the box. I had one on a fluval edge for a year before I transferred to a bigger tank.

[metrokat]

 

 

Feed more!

But really: Feed more for phosphates, and add nitrates if you need to.

 

This thread is worrying me - I've got a 2" maxima sitting under two current orbits, about 8" below them in the center (front and sideways). It's doing surprisingly well so far (since April 17th or so when I got it), even with me brushing the occasional hydroid off of its shell so that it won't irritate the mantle. I feed the messy clown, I add reef snow daily, I feed coral frenzy, reef roids, omega one pellets, BA Restor, almost-daily, etc. And somehow, I caught nitrates at 0ppm the day before yesterday. Another overfeeding brought it up to <1ppm the next day.

 

I don't think I'm above going into my freshwater supplements and grabbing the Seachem nitrate..

 

Or getting rid of my frag rack on the back wall and turning into a magnetic rack for the clam.

Remove the marine pure.

[Tamberav]

I would also guess starving, there are still old posts out there that say clams need pristine water and nitrates 0, but I never found that to be the truth at all. I am trying to get my Nitrates up a bit in preparation for a clam. I have just basically increased feeding, mostly filter foods since the coral should benefit as well.

 

I had a large wild caught maxima for quiet awhile, that thing thrived on dirty tank and fish poop. It was in a mandarin tank so there was plenty of that to go around.

 

BTW, I would do more than just phyto, there are many filter feeding foods, and rotating them is probably best.

[Mariaface]

you running blues at 100 percent on both of them all day right? (if not I would).

You can prob have your whites all the way up too, but go slower with those. I used to keep both channels 100 percent (whites only for like 3-4 hours tops a day). took a long time to get whites to 100, I started those at like 45 I think. I started blues at 100 with that light right out of the box. I had one on a fluval edge for a year before I transferred to a bigger tank.

 

 

Correct - not sure where the whites are right now, but it's somewhere in the 60-70% range, most likely.

 

 

Remove the marine pure.

 

Would a fifth of a 1" plate have denitrification in those back chambers? It was just added a week or so ago, too; not sure now quickly anaerobic bacteria would've developed in there..

 

Nitrates have gone up that tiny bit with the daily large feedings over two days, and I don't have any nitrate tests from before that point. I'm going to be testing it daily with alk/phos for at least a while, to keep an eye on it. (I hadn't fed corals or broadcast fed more than restor and reef snow for the two days leading up to the 0ppm nitrate measurement, because I am an awful human being who needs to feed the tank more consistently in general)

 

If it's seriously zeroing out, though, I'll remove the marine pure and compare?

 

Definitely didn't mean to hijack this thread; I hope the info helps, though!

[cruiZe]

No worries about the hijack Maria , all relevant info .

 

I only have 3 fish so I think more would also help kick the nutrients up. I have a yellow coris in QT (another thread http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/375610-yellow-coris-wrasse-with-red-spot/#entry5370570 on that cuz he has a red spot) plus I picked that to possibly protect the clam from harmful snails (no evidence that i had any, but still)

 

I think if I can keep 5 fish alive instead of just 3, get the lights in order, keep feeding coral frenzy and get some selcon that would be a much better chance for success.

[RayWhisperer]

Don't know about the yellows and clams. However, I had a green corris wrasse that really enjoyed eating my 3 maximas. One of them was a black and white zebra that cost me a pretty penny.

[cruiZe]

Don't know about the yellows and clams. However, I had a green corris wrasse that really enjoyed eating my 3 maximas. One of them was a black and white zebra that cost me a pretty penny.

 

that sucks!! sometimes these critters just do whatever they want

[HarryPotter]

Yellow coris doesn't bother clams from what I've seen. Nor do pencil wrasses or fairy wrasses.

[RayWhisperer]

It was just a word of warning. As I said, I didn't know about the yellows.

[cruiZe]

starvation is officially the cause of death in my mind. Unanimous here plus pacific east aquaculture wrote me back in agreement with what you guys all said. They said they grow them in a greenhouse under natural sunlight - does anyone know PAR reading on the sun?? I'm guessing they're used to it being pretty flippin bright. and their photos are done under MH...

[Rural]

starvation is officially the cause of death in my mind.

 

I'm gonna agree. in my limited experience I have had my clam for about 1 year I think? but it has been through the ringer. algae out breaks and an alk to 19 and ca swing to over 1200. all while feeding heavy it has thrived. I also have bristleworms and they never seem to bother it.

 

several people feed heavy. I think am one of them.

 

nuvo16

weekly regimen is currently as follows:

Reef Chili 5-7 "spoons" (the super small reef chili supplied spoon that looks like the Ca+ test kit one)

10-15 spoons of Reef Roids

2-3 spoons of Coral Frenzy

20-30 medium Fauna Marine LPS pellets

5 drops of Real Ocean Eggs

3 drops of Oyster Eggs

3 drops Phyto Food

5 ml of Reef Fuel

 

These are mixed in the reef chili mixing bottle with tank water and kept in the fridge and shaken and fed daily. 1 full bottle a week. Mixed one time a week.

 

then I feed the 2 clowns R.O.E. 1-2 drops daily.

 

better (educated) luck next time.

[mystersyster]

I can agree starvation may have been the cause. I don't recommend spot feeding them though. It's a myth small clams need spot feeding. They filter through their "mouths" but also absorb nitrate, phosphate, and ammanio through their mantle. However, even youngsters get nearly 100 percent of their food through photosynthesis. Broadcast feeding coral foodshad done wonders for my clams since my tank has been fallow. However, light is what should be the focus when getting a new clam.