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Mitten_reef’s IM30L


mitten_reef

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15 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

camera was also from 2007

My old 2MP Casio point and shoot from the year 2000 had no trouble taking good pics under LED lighting, so I can't even make the excuse of age.  (Died last year tho....just no longer powers up.)

 

Whatever is wrong with modern cameras is obviously something the makers programmed into them....aka a bug.

 

Cameras have been around forever as consumer devices.  They have worked without issues forever as consumer devices. 

 

Now, thanks to digital (or whatever) they don't work on fish tanks anymore.  🙄

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8 minutes ago, mcarroll said:

My old 2MP Casio point and shoot from the year 2000 had no trouble taking good pics under LED lighting, so I can't even make the excuse of age.  (Died last year tho....just no longer powers up.)

 

Whatever is wrong with modern cameras is obviously something the makers programmed into them....aka a bug.

 

Cameras have been around forever as consumer devices.  They have worked without issues forever as consumer devices. 

 

Now, thanks to digital (or whatever) they don't work on fish tanks anymore.  🙄

digital cameras, for unknown reasons to me, have image sensors that highly sensitive to blue LED - hence extreme blue wash on anything without filter or other adjustments (WB, etc).  The fact that most tanks are lit with even exaggerated blues, makes the problem worse.  

 

I can take the picture with, say 3 Blue+ and 1 Coral+ T5 bulbs, and get very reasonable resulting photos (you could go back and look at my temporary test with ATI 4x24W).  But if my LEDs are putting out similar visual blueness/color temperature, it's a completely different story.  So yeah, it's camera, but it's also about the light source.  I suspect that it's the wavelength specificities of LED that end up overwhelming the camera sensors.  Also, an "actual" camera sensor always perform better than in-phone camera.  Like i said, my 2007 dSLR works better than my iPhone.  Is it an excuse? I don't think so, I simply point out the fact of my situation.  But getting out a camera, connected to laptop is more hassle than grabbing a quick iphone pic.     

 

I look forward to my T5+LED hybrid arrival, to see if it helps simplifying the photography aspect of this hobby. based on @Matteo's comments, it seems that at least I can do away with changing light settings.  

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15 hours ago, spectra said:

Well I dont use any balance I just snap the pic and post..................who has the time to do all that crap.................sure as hell isnt me..............

😡🙄

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8 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

digital cameras, for unknown reasons to me, have image sensors that highly sensitive to blue LED - hence extreme blue wash on anything without filter or other adjustments (WB, etc).  The fact that most tanks are lit with even exaggerated blues, makes the problem worse.  

 

I can take the picture with, say 3 Blue+ and 1 Coral+ T5 bulbs, and get very reasonable resulting photos (you could go back and look at my temporary test with ATI 4x24W).  But if my LEDs are putting out similar visual blueness/color temperature, it's a completely different story.  So yeah, it's camera, but it's also about the light source.  I suspect that it's the wavelength specificities of LED that end up overwhelming the camera sensors.  Also, an "actual" camera sensor always perform better than in-phone camera.  Like i said, my 2007 dSLR works better than my iPhone.  Is it an excuse? I don't think so, I simply point out the fact of my situation.  But getting out a camera, connected to laptop is more hassle than grabbing a quick iphone pic.     

 

I look forward to my T5+LED hybrid arrival, to see if it helps simplifying the photography aspect of this hobby. based on @Matteo's comments, it seems that at least I can do away with changing light settings.  

When I get home let me see if I can take some screen shots of phone settings and camera settings so you can get an idea. 

 

Maybe I'll make a quick shitty YouTube video... 

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2 hours ago, mitten_reef said:

digital cameras, for unknown reasons to me, have image sensors that highly sensitive to blue LED - hence extreme blue wash on anything without filter or other adjustments (WB, etc).  The fact that most tanks are lit with even exaggerated blues, makes the problem worse.  

 

I can take the picture with, say 3 Blue+ and 1 Coral+ T5 bulbs, and get very reasonable resulting photos (you could go back and look at my temporary test with ATI 4x24W).  But if my LEDs are putting out similar visual blueness/color temperature, it's a completely different story.  So yeah, it's camera, but it's also about the light source.  I suspect that it's the wavelength specificities of LED that end up overwhelming the camera sensors.  Also, an "actual" camera sensor always perform better than in-phone camera.  Like i said, my 2007 dSLR works better than my iPhone.  Is it an excuse? I don't think so, I simply point out the fact of my situation.  But getting out a camera, connected to laptop is more hassle than grabbing a quick iphone pic.     

 

I look forward to my T5+LED hybrid arrival, to see if it helps simplifying the photography aspect of this hobby. based on @Matteo's comments, it seems that at least I can do away with changing light settings.  

My old 2MP digital point an shootfrom 2000 didn't have trouble with LED's tho......it's a bug that was "invented" more rececntly as far as I can tell.

 

(Which still doesn't help you or me take any better pics TODAY....)

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Still thinking...

 

You know it makes even less sense the more I think about it.

 

When my old camera was made, there were no LED lights on the market except for the little indicator lights on electronics.  (CFLs were becoming the norm.)

 

Now, LED lighting in houses is typical.   

 

That meands that EVERY white LED carries that strong blue 450nm spike....not just our reef lights.  (Our eyes aren't that sensitive to blue, so we're deceived.)

 

So WHY NOW in the middle of the LED lighting era when everyone is using LED lighting for every common usage would cameras "suddenly" be made so they're hyper-sensitive to 450 nm light?

 

Asking rhetorically of course....

 

(unless someone actually knows the reason!)

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1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Still thinking...

 

You know it makes even less sense the more I think about it.

 

When my old camera was made, there were no LED lights on the market except for the little indicator lights on electronics.  (CFLs were becoming the norm.)

 

Now, LED lighting in houses is typical.   

 

That meands that EVERY white LED carries that strong blue 450nm spike....not just our reef lights.  (Our eyes aren't that sensitive to blue, so we're deceived.)

 

So WHY NOW in the middle of the LED lighting era when everyone is using LED lighting for every common usage would cameras "suddenly" be made so they're hyper-sensitive to 450 nm light?

 

Asking rhetorically of course....

 

(unless someone actually knows the reason!)

Doubt it. Leds are not really that special.

 

Just another form of emitting light. 

 

It's not so much the color they produce because if you get 3000k and lower (warm white) I don't think you'd get much of spike in the blue spectrums. Color temp is still color temp regardless of what's emitting it. 

 

What cameras struggle with is the Led frequencies. LEDs do not remain constantly on. They are actually turning on and off at such a fast rate we can't see it to the naked eye. 

 

This is how they act more efficiently and have a longer life than a normal bulb. By continously pulsating power to the LED diode. 

 

Someone smarter than me will hopefully correct anything I missed or mixed up. 

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1 hour ago, mcarroll said:

Still thinking...

 

You know it makes even less sense the more I think about it.

 

When my old camera was made, there were no LED lights on the market except for the little indicator lights on electronics.  (CFLs were becoming the norm.)

 

Now, LED lighting in houses is typical.   

 

That meands that EVERY white LED carries that strong blue 450nm spike....not just our reef lights.  (Our eyes aren't that sensitive to blue, so we're deceived.)

 

So WHY NOW in the middle of the LED lighting era when everyone is using LED lighting for every common usage would cameras "suddenly" be made so they're hyper-sensitive to 450 nm light?

 

Asking rhetorically of course....

 

(unless someone actually knows the reason!)

Our ISO sensors are beyond what they were then. Makes sense why so sensitive to blue light

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I agree the situation with modern cameras makes no sense to me.....but I just don't know squat about photography (or at least not the tricks).  

 

I do know a little about light though...

 

1 hour ago, Matteo said:

Color temp is still color temp regardless of what's emitting it.

Actually it's mostly in your brain -- perception has fairly little directly to do with the spectrum that creates it.

 

From my Internet reefer Decoder Ring Series, check out my article on “Full Spectrum”.

All of these "look white", for example...(see spectrum images at link).

  • The Sun
  • A cheap store-brand (Ikea) CFL that literally only puts out four discreet colors
  • A GE Reveal blue-corrected incadescent bulb
  • A Phillips 6500K T12 tube with massive spikes, but also a nearly complete representation from other spectrums.

(The spectrum charts for all four are drastically different from one another if you don't wanna check the link.)

 

The thing is, your brain combines ALL the visual signals in it's own way for interpretation, creating the "color" we see:  "White"

Check this out: https://light-measurement.com/perception-of-color/

 

1 hour ago, Matteo said:

I don't think you'd get much of spike in the blue spectrums.

Image result for warm white led spectrum

 

Note the blue spike on both extremes of "white" LED (warm vs cold). Blue has almost double the intensity of any other spectrum in a cool ("pure") white, and is still a distinctive spike in a warm white. 

 

You can even see the "little" warm white spike visually in a standard spectrometer that doesn't break out power-per-wavelength (as on my blog link above).

 

It's inherent to the blue LED at the core of the "white" LED.

 

Only a percentage of the blue gets converted to ROYG colors.  (i.e. ROYGBIV)

 

Pretty distinctive from older forms of lighting....but there was already a LOT of variety as you saw above.

 

1 hour ago, Matteo said:

Our ISO sensors are beyond what they were then. Makes sense why so sensitive to blue light

Could be the case.  Doesn't speak well of the desingers/engineers making the phones tho, does it? 

 

Give em better hardware and they fail to account for it??   C'est la vie.  😆

 

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@Matteo 

here’s today’s settings for photos below, keep in mind my royal blue channel also have additional 21 mixed blues added on top of the four arrays. 

 

04F96E68-A6C8-49C1-B0FC-0B9064FA7C49.thumb.png.5712d6a5816e29871f83e3b1b2653947.png


The photos turned out with a bit of purple haze over them - which were not there on the onscreen preview. Weird. The rastas were spot on, but not anymore. 

@ninjamyst the new ric is on the plug presses against the glass. IT looked pale yellow at the LFS 🙃. Oh well, it seems to stand out among my ric garden, that’s all that matters. There is also an existing yellow with green rim in the center of the pic here tho. 

E965FA25-E47A-4988-A381-48D782E984AD.thumb.jpeg.14c3182f375ece63ac062248443834a3.jpeg

96E737E7-D680-4443-A492-0B4096AB3C22.thumb.jpeg.8239840386e3105a384be83a4dcaf8a9.jpeg

 

32E69D30-6337-46B0-81F5-BC14B87A4A55.thumb.jpeg.6da480b66fe4c39631d8f39775a83277.jpeg

 

57272532-B831-477C-A8BF-3AEE2664E467.thumb.jpeg.24a62f1a6100eca1b06fa363d595cf20.jpeg


the new guy

56428FAB-F1FA-41D7-97EE-E30562E33EA4.thumb.jpeg.b00c3db768bc9055232663f8364e7c63.jpeg

 

 

ACD71880-70B6-4B64-A72C-D41DC78B7474.thumb.jpeg.e8cd0e2b22e8561ba4dee0cb0da92c16.jpeg

 

 

B61DF229-4C2E-4B73-B389-581BBE4E3D8C.thumb.jpeg.40cf994c1449007d346229ddf83ee7c3.jpeg

 

 

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Posted my lighting and camera settings here. 

Let me know what I can clear up! There are also a handful of videos and articles of people taking pics with iphones and dslrs. It took me awhile to find the right settings but once I figured out the manual WB settings it was a game changer. 

 

https://www.nano-reef.com/forums/topic/406434-matteos-nuvo-40-heavily-stocked-mixed-reef-new-fts-new-scolys-torch-bounce-etc/?do=findComment&comment=5894309

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So somewhere else on this journal I mentioned that iPhone post-process photos added weird purple haze. 
 

screenshot

A4CAD947-74BB-488E-8245-5B7FEA5D8897.thumb.png.80920224009273aec83c8e08c7f7aaf1.png

 

after it gone thru the camera app

35B7DE22-B78F-44D0-BF07-8CB8160C815F.thumb.jpeg.e2429ff97fb55e316e7710a989aca147.jpeg

 

notice the increase purple along the rims of both montis?  The red is more saturated on the starburst.  Light settings and phone camera settings were not changed between these two. 
my Monti palawanensis is turning itself gold. 
 

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in my attempt to force feed the sun corals this morning, ended up adding a whole cube of mysis to the tank 😅.  But finally, the orange one is starting to extend a little bit, a few polyps are now out and about every night.  The black sun is stunning now that every polyp opens up for food daily.  

 

My micromussa's love their share of mysis as well.  it's been a long time since I last target fed the micro's with mysis; I think I'm gonna get back into that habit again cuz they grew like crazy when I used to do it.   

 

should have given some to the torch too.... next time. 

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38 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

in my attempt to force feed the sun corals this morning, ended up adding a whole cube of mysis to the tank 😅.  But finally, the orange one is starting to extend a little bit, a few polyps are now out and about every night.  The black sun is stunning now that every polyp opens up for food daily.  

 

My micromussa's love their share of mysis as well.  it's been a long time since I last target fed the micro's with mysis; I think I'm gonna get back into that habit again cuz they grew like crazy when I used to do it.   

 

should have given some to the torch too.... next time. 

Wish I fed just  one cube...……….:lol: 

 

Corals look good above ! and hell my sun coral just laughs at me...……..I turn off flow and start feeding corals along with squirting stuff on it...…….nope wont open just starts but says not today...……...

 

 

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3 minutes ago, spectra said:

Wish I fed just  one cube...……….:lol: 

 

Corals look good above ! and hell my sun coral just laughs at me...……..I turn off flow and start feeding corals along with squirting stuff on it...…….nope wont open just starts but says not today...……...

 

 

you got a lot more fish, a ton more water (almost literally :lol:), and more filtration equipment.

 

I'm running floss and a tablespoon of phosguard :rolleyes:, so a whole cube is a bit of a big deal today :biggrin:  

 

yeah those stupid sun corals, they do what they want.  I dunno how people even manage to get pics with them all nice and bloomed.  Both of mine start to get on schedule tho, which would be cool when they do bloom.

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9 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

you got a lot more fish, a ton more water (almost literally :lol:), and more filtration equipment.

 

I'm running floss and a tablespoon of phosguard :rolleyes:, so a whole cube is a bit of a big deal today :biggrin:  

 

yeah those stupid sun corals, they do what they want.  I dunno how people even manage to get pics with them all nice and bloomed.  Both of mine start to get on schedule tho, which would be cool when they do bloom.

 

Have had them in the past and they opened all the time...……. these just want to be a pita...…...and yes I do have a bigger tank and well I just feed and feed...…..have to keep the algae happy I guess...…..last night was a cube of mysis and 2 cubes of brine...…. 

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54 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

@Matteo, check this out. Found a trick with the Adobe Lightroom App. I can just white balance the glow at the splash guard. 
B689D2BC-5951-40C4-9C98-D419E45D30E0.thumb.jpeg.46e29502f70efb06e98dd56b66a04e25.jpeg
 

might be the best phone pic yet. 

Looks better.! If you can take a picture of the tank with the light fixture out of frame. The light shining down is causing the apature of the camera to be super tiny allowing in less light and color saturation. 

 

If you take an FTS with the light out of frame (if possible) you'll get MUCH better lighting since it won't be compensating for the light coming directly from the light. 

 

None of my FTS shots have my light in view. I don't want the light from the fixture being painted on the digital capture. 

 

Instead I want all the light reflecting off my coral and sand bed as that's what it actually looks like and that's the light you want painted (light exposure be captured) on your picture. If you stared are your reef while looking at the light your eyes get kinda hazy. Same idea as the camera sensors. 

 

Lightroom is a powerful tool which you can always mess with the color balance getting your yellows more exposed and blues toned down. 

 

I don't use Lightroom for the cost but I found pixlr.com to do exactly what I need and it processes 4k no problem. 

 

If you can, post a screen shot of the light room settings and maybe I can see where you should toggle 🙂

 

Like I said, still looks great! But could be better 😘 (I mean that truly in a compliment sense as you have a very nice reef that should be shown) 

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If you want check out @cuttlefishandcoral on Instagram. They're the guys that spectra and I always go to.

 

They take great coral pics and pretty sure they just use an iPhone. I'll ask their social media guy how he takes his pics when I see them Friday. 

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16 minutes ago, Matteo said:

If you want check out @cuttlefishandcoral on Instagram. They're the guys that spectra and I always go to.

 

They take great coral pics and pretty sure they just use an iPhone. I'll ask their social media guy how he takes his pics when I see them Friday. 

Cool shop. Just followed them. 

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12 minutes ago, mitten_reef said:

Cool shop. Just followed them. 

They're the best. Truly. Great prices, services, and just overall experience. 

 

Thinking about your tank being wide if you could take a pic a little higher up just so you don't see the actual LEDs but more just eye level with the fixture that would work 🙂

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