20 Gallons: 100 Corals ~ New Hydra!

[TFish77]

amazing tank and great documenting everything! You seem to enjoy (and do well) bringing damaged corals back to life... any tips on that? Like the torch or candy canes, did you spot feed them or what?

 

also you crashed my (work) computer with page 1, but it was worth it to wait 10 min for it to load again!

 

I wish there was one solid piece of advice I could give when it comes to bringing back corals. There really isn't one go-to method when it comes to raising corals, especially those that are in pretty bad shape.

 

I guess the most important thing I could say is to test your water (Yourself, not from an LFS) and to test often. I test alk, ph, cal, salinity, and mag once a week and test nitrate, phosphate, and ammonia once a month. I also do as much research as I can about each coral I put in my tank. Where does it come from? What is it's natural diet? How does it do in captivity vs in the wild? Have other people had success in captivity? I have listened to more "experts" at different LFS' flat out lie to customers about different corals and their requirements.

 

I have been lucky enough to have my hands in about 300 different tanks over the past few years so I know that while one solution might work for one tank, it doesn't necessarily apply to another. We are all susceptible to disasters of all different shapes and sizes.

 

That being said I am currently in the middle of a major tank disaster myself. I am posting details now.

[TFish77]

......I....... I don't know what happened. Everything was perfect until yesterday. Maybe it's because I lied about doing my w/c on Sunday or maybe it's because I finally had the audacity to post my stupid tank on these forums. Either way I have lost every fish I currently own.

 

My female clown of two years, gone. Six line, gone. Helfrichi Firefish, gone. Spotted Mandarin, gone. Yasha High Fin, gone. Flaming Prawn, gone (I dropped him six months ago and never saw him until I found him against the powerhead today. He had tripled in size and looked amazing right before I pulled his dead body out).

 

At this point I don't know what to say. I am religious about testing my water and doing water changes. I tested both my water and the new water I was adding just to make sure. PH was good, salinity was good, mag was good, and cal was good. I changed the same amount of water yesterday as I have done for the past year. I literally did nothing different than I usually do.

 

I have run through every potential problem that both myself and my local LFS could come up with. There were no discrepancies between my water tests and the LFS'. There was no stray current present in the water and I even looked up how to test with my ohm meter just to make sure. I haven't changed anything that I have been doing over the last couple months. Ph, alk, cal, sal, mag, nitrate, nitrite, ammonia, and phosphate were all within normal levels. Temperature is also maintained at a constant 78 degrees.

 

To be honest it makes me physically sick to lose this many fish all at once. I used to joke that losing a fish for me was like someone else losing a cat or dog. To lose this many at once is beyond what I can deal with.

 

I am going to take a break from all of this for a bit while I figure out what the hell I am going to do with my tank. I don't have any plans of abandoning the hobby but just need to take a break for a while.

 

I love this hobby but god damn can it be a heart breaker.

 

Edit: All the corals are fine. It's just the fish that were affected. Doesn't make it any better.

[Sharbuckle]

Sorry for your loss. Such sad news. Hang in there. Keep trying to figure out what happened.

[ninjamyst]

omg, so sorry to hear. i hope you find out the root cause. did any of your clean up crew die too? could the death of one fish cause an ammonia spike?

 

you said you changed water yesterday. maybe some chemical got into the bucket?

[pewpewkittah]

I'm so sorry for your losses. It's heartbreaking to lose a fish, let alone a whole tank of fish.

 

With your levels within normal limits, I would definitely suspect an outside material. Do you know if anything was sprayed near the tank? Any foreign objects introduced? Or chemicals near the tank, even in the same room?

[TFish77]

Sorry for your loss. Such sad news. Hang in there. Keep trying to figure out what happened.

 

Thanks. I feel sooooo stupid finally getting a build thread going only to have this happen.

 

 

omg, so sorry to hear. i hope you find out the root cause. did any of your clean up crew die too? could the death of one fish cause an ammonia spike?

 

you said you changed water yesterday. maybe some chemical got into the bucket?

 

Thanks. No noticeable loss of CUC, I haven't seen my cleaner or my peppermint but they tend to hide so I'm not sure if they are truly gone.

 

I tested my water parameters before the w/c and nothing was out of the ordinary. When I pulled all of the bodies out today nothing had seemed to decompose at all. I also tested my water for nitrates, nitrites, ammonia and phosphates after I noticed the massive die off and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I also took a water sample to the only LFS in my area I trust and they gave me the same results for nitrate, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. They also were nice enough to test using both API test kits and red sea with the same results.

 

I would understand if it was something I did but to have everything die for no apparent reason is beyond me.

I'm so sorry for your losses. It's heartbreaking to lose a fish, let alone a whole tank of fish.

 

With your levels within normal limits, I would definitely suspect an outside material. Do you know if anything was sprayed near the tank? Any foreign objects introduced? Or chemicals near the tank, even in the same room?

 

Nothing. I am religious about not cleaning the tank with anything but R/O water and paper towels. I got all kinds of crap for posting how I believed that certain cleaning solutions can leach into the tank. I also only use RO/DI water for both my mixed salt water and my top off just to be sure.

[Pinner Reef]

####! I hate to hear stuff like this. Sooo sorry there. And with so many awesome fish. Does the tank have a battery backup at all? You said it was just the fish, so my first guess would be oxygen deprivation. How do the corals look? Looks like you've tested for anything else I can think of. Sooo sorry once again.

[reeferfoxx]

Pinner is right, I too believe it was an oxygen issue. Hate to say it, but protein skimmers work wonders in that area. I think your sps can really benefit too. Might even rehabilitate the tank within a couple months for a new fish! Just take it slow.

[gulfsurfer101]

Hey man if I can shine some light on the subject don't break down your tank. It'll cost you much more to get back in. Your never going to make what you already spent on buying everything new and purchasing livestock. I would know. I lost a 40br with about as much sps as what a used beamer goes for and a 150g with seven years worth of collecting. If the coral is fine then let it be! Add new fish over time. You don't have to replace everything all at once. QT every one of them before it goes in your tank. Don't go dry. We never last too long anyways when we try.

[TFish77]

####! I hate to hear stuff like this. Sooo sorry there. And with so many awesome fish. Does the tank have a battery backup at all? You said it was just the fish, so my first guess would be oxygen deprivation. How do the corals look? Looks like you've tested for anything else I can think of. Sooo sorry once again.

 

 

Pinner is right, I too believe it was an oxygen issue. Hate to say it, but protein skimmers work wonders in that area. I think your sps can really benefit too. Might even rehabilitate the tank within a couple months for a new fish! Just take it slow.

 

Yeah the common denominator seems to be oxygen deprivation. However with the RW-4 pointed straight at the surface and the biowheel 250 doing its thing I have never had an issue with oxygen for the fish. I even ran a DIY protein skimmer in the biowheel but pulled it due to over-cleanliness of the tank. That was over five months ago and have run the same setup ever since.

 

I could understand if it was something like corals continuously growing and requiring more and more supplements over time. However the fish have been fine for so long and I haven't made any drastic changes to their feeding, maintenance, or well being.

 

..... I just don't get it.

Hey man if I can shine some light on the subject don't break down your tank. It'll cost you much more to get back in. Your never going to make what you already spent on buying everything new and purchasing livestock. I would know. I lost a 40br with about as much sps as what a used beamer goes for and a 150g with seven years worth of collecting. If the coral is fine then let it be! Add new fish over time. You don't have to replace everything all at once. QT every one of them before it goes in your tank. Don't go dry. We never last too long anyways when we try.

 

 

Thanks Gulf. I think I am just more embarrassed by the fact that I finally got up the nerve to make a build thread only to have everything come crashing down. Especially since I can't for the life of me figure what the hell I did wrong.

 

I always considered myself beyond OCD when it comes to tank management and to lose everything at once is just terrible. I feel like such an idiot. Like I said all of the corals seem to be doing well but only time will tell.

[Pinner Reef]

Were your alarm clocks flashing this morning? The power could have gone out over night and then came back on before you woke up. With that many fish in the 20g I could see them sucking down the O2 in a matter of 2hrs.

[davidanthony921]

Usually is the other way around. Corals die and fish are fine. I'd tend to go oxygen deprivation also or maybe ich. But i dont think ich would do it that quickly and im sure you would have seen the signs. Just mho. If it was nutrients you'd probably have dead corals. Sorry to hear about that and I hope things take a turn for the better. DONT GIVE UP

[reeferfoxx]

I don't want to jump in here and act like I know everything, but there a few forum threads talking about bio-wheels and reef tanks. I think you should start with that. Since most of your biological bacteria lives on the surface of rock and sand, what your bio-wheel is collecting is fish waste. That fish waste then accumulates and eventually becomes a nitrate dispensary. I would test your nitrates again.

[TFish77]

Were your alarm clocks flashing this morning? The power could have gone out over night and then came back on before you woke up. With that many fish in the 20g I could see them sucking down the O2 in a matter of 2hrs.

 

Being a nerd like I am I fall asleep around 2am and wake up around 8am. I usually watch the tank pretty extensively both times. However I didn't notice any death until I came back this afternoon around 3pm ( I left around 9). So yes there is a bit of a gap there but like I said I didn't do anything different than I have done over the last year of the tanks life.

Usually is the other way around. Corals die and fish are fine. I'd tend to go oxygen deprivation also or maybe ich. But i dont think ich would do it that quickly and im sure you would have seen the signs. Just mho. If it was nutrients you'd probably have dead corals. Sorry to hear about that and I hope things take a turn for the better. DONT GIVE UP

 

Definitely not ich as I have dealt with that problem when rehabilitating ( and subsequently saving) the hippo tang everyone gives me shit for. I feed the tank super heavily which is why I do such large water changes which is why I don't think it was a nutrient problem.

 

Thank you for your support! N-R.com and its members are one of the main reasons I have(had) the tank I do today and is one of the only reasons I feel like continuing.Thanks again!

[TFish77]

Were your alarm clocks flashing this morning? The power could have gone out over night and then came back on before you woke up. With that many fish in the 20g I could see them sucking down the O2 in a matter of 2hrs.

 

On that note I made the investment in a crappy battery backup a few years back and never ceases to wake my ass up when the power goes out. It's nothing fancy but one of those... well I can't tell what brand it is. Penn-Plax Silent Air B11 Portable air pump. When the power goes out that mofo definitely wakes me up.

 

So no I don't think it was an 02 issue.

[TFish77]

I don't want to jump in here and act like I know everything, but there a few forum threads talking about bio-wheels and reef tanks. I think you should start with that. Since most of your biological bacteria lives on the surface of rock and sand, what your bio-wheel is collecting is fish waste. That fish waste then accumulates and eventually becomes a nitrate dispensary. I would test your nitrates again.

 

Thanks for your input and I appreciate you taking the time to give me advice!

 

I should have been more clear in the fact that I actually don't use the bio-wheel for its biological filtration. I actually don't even have a wheel on the filter. My biological filtration comes from my 50-60#'s of live rock and 30-40#'s of live sand. The bio-wheel only serves to hold my chemi pure and add to the overall water turnover for the tank.

[Pinner Reef]

hmm. dunno what to say there then. Bad fish food? Although that would be a first that I've heard of.

 

Edit: forget the fish food idea... That's just stupid.

 

Really dunno what could have happened

[reeferfoxx]

 

Thanks for your input and I appreciate you taking the time to give me advice!

 

I should have been more clear in the fact that I actually don't use the bio-wheel for its biological filtration. I actually don't even have a wheel on the filter. My biological filtration comes from my 50-60#'s of live rock and 30-40#'s of live sand. The bio-wheel only serves to hold my chemi pure and add to the overall water turnover for the tank.

 

Gotcha!! Good luck! Don't give up!

[gulfsurfer101]

Have any new fish added lately. Brook is a fast killer although highly unlikely unless it made it's way in on a wild caught specimen!

[TFish77]

hmm. dunno what to say there then. Bad fish food? Although that would be a first that I've heard of.

 

Edit: forget the fish food idea... That's just stupid.

 

Really dunno what could have happened

 

Me neither! If it makes you feel any better though I rotate 1 cube a day between PE Mysis, PE Colonapeez, Hikari Spirulina Brine, Hikari Reef Nutrition, Hikari Mysis, and Rod's Reef Food while every other day feeding reef nutrition phyto feast, oyster feast, and roti feast.

 

I feel like I worked so hard only to fail so terribly.

[Droy008]

So sorry to hear about your fish, it sucks to lose them regardless of the cause.

Don't give up though, I know its rough, but don't give up.

[CronicReefer]

Do you have any dogs or cats and used flea medicine on them that day? A common ingredient in flea medications is extremely toxic to fish while only mildly toxic to inverts.

[TFish77]

Have any new fish added lately. Brook is a fast killer although highly unlikely unless it made it's way in on a wild caught specimen!

 

If your talking brooklynella then no. Grant it I did add a yasha high fin within the last month but she was qt'd and didn't have a thing on her.

 

Thanks for your suggestions though!

So sorry to hear about your fish, it sucks to lose them regardless of the cause.

Don't give up though, I know its rough, but don't give up.

 

Thanks man. Stay strong right!

Do you have any dogs or cats and used flea medicine on them that day? A common ingredient in flea medications is extremely toxic to fish while only mildly toxic to inverts.

 

I do have a stupid cat but haven't dosed him with anything recently (actually have never dosed him with any medication). Damn good suggestion though!

[CronicReefer]

 

I do have a stupid cat but haven't dosed him with anything recently (actually have never dosed him with any medication). Damn good suggestion though!

Damn well I don't think O2 or any common water parameter is to blame here. Permethrin and Methoprene are the chemicals I'm talking about and they are sometimes found in other products. But basically any insecticide is going to be extremely toxic to fish. I know certain perfumes and scented substances can be extremely toxic to fish as well. Sorry for the losses and hopefully you can find out whatever caused it so there won't be any risk of it again.

[vlangel]

Ahhh Tfish, I am so sorry, that is heartbreaking. Those sort of experiences are so painful and when you don't even know what happen it painfully perplexing. Take some time and just let the tank run on auto pilot (doing WCs of course)a while and maybe put a poly filter in the biowheel's chamber to pull out a contaminant just in case something got in the tank. That way you can heal from the hurt of this, but not make a hasty decision while you are feeling badly. I would give yourself at least a month, then decide how you want to proceed.