ajmckay Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Dimensions are 36 long x 10 wide x 12 tall. Lighting is a T5ho setup with an actinic and a 10k white (thoughts on changing?) Currently 1-2" of sand, 4-500gph flow through the chamber + a koralia powerhead. Goals: - Super easy maintenance - As cheap as possible - Looks good - Provides a benefit to the tank overall So I was thinking a selection of easy macroalgaes and possibly a purple reef lobster as the main inhabitant. I don't know a lot about macros though so can someone suggest easy to keep ones that would be good for nutrient export (but doesn't have a tendency to "go sexual")? Also they need to be cheap and I don't know where to get them. The lighting isn't green it's just my custom white balance to make the top display tank look true to life. If you see some cool pictures those are the best for helping me visualize. How difficult would it be to set something like this up (not mine - but apparently from nano-reef, anyone know who's it is?)? Link to comment
ajmckay Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 How about this then... What are some good places to order macros? I'm still researching but I'm most interested in: ChaetomorphaHalymeniaHalimeda OpuntiaUlvaAsparagopsis TaxiformisBotryocladiaLaurenciaNemastomaOchtodesRed GraciliariaI realize Caulerpa is probably the most common but I'm sort of leery to put it in my tank... I was also thinking to have a piece of mesh with some hair algae on it which might be kinda cool... Anyone else intentionally have hair algae in their macro refugiums? Link to comment
keydiver Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 How about this then... What are some good places to order macros? I'm still researching but I'm most interested in: Chaetomorpha Halymenia Halimeda Opuntia Ulva Asparagopsis Taxiformis Botryocladia Laurencia Nemastoma Ochtodes Red Graciliaria I realize Caulerpa is probably the most common but I'm sort of leery to put it in my tank... I was also thinking to have a piece of mesh with some hair algae on it which might be kinda cool... Anyone else intentionally have hair algae in their macro refugiums? Good list but a few of those are likely not to do well. Laurencia, nemastoma, and asparagopsis tend to melt and break off. I would say ochtodes, cheato and some type of caulerpa for the foreground would look great and provide a solid amount of of nutrient export. There are many ways to prevent caulerpa from going sexual. Many people do not realize that caulerpa as a group of macros has some uncommon characteristics that unify it, namely the fact that cells within the algae are not distinct but rather all float around in solution. This means that when a small group of cells "Go sexual", it's easy for the rest of the algae to respond because they are in close proximity and any chemical cues are easily transferred. A simple way to avoid this chain reaction effect is to cut the horizontal rhizomes of your caulerpa so that you effectively separate the algae into a bunch of different, distinct colonies. I think caulerpa gets a bad rap and there are species that do not commonly exhibit sexual behavior. My favorite is c. paplisades but there are tons of cool choices. Link to comment
ajmckay Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Good list but a few of those are likely not to do well. Laurencia, nemastoma, and asparagopsis tend to melt and break off. I would say ochtodes, cheato and some type of caulerpa for the foreground would look great and provide a solid amount of of nutrient export. There are many ways to prevent caulerpa from going sexual. Many people do not realize that caulerpa as a group of macros has some uncommon characteristics that unify it, namely the fact that cells within the algae are not distinct but rather all float around in solution. This means that when a small group of cells "Go sexual", it's easy for the rest of the algae to respond because they are in close proximity and any chemical cues are easily transferred. A simple way to avoid this chain reaction effect is to cut the horizontal rhizomes of your caulerpa so that you effectively separate the algae into a bunch of different, distinct colonies. I think caulerpa gets a bad rap and there are species that do not commonly exhibit sexual behavior. My favorite is c. paplisades but there are tons of cool choices. Excellent insight thank you. I'm still in the infancy of my macro research - but I suppose the purpose of thread this is to find out how well I can accomplish the goals I listed. I'll take another look at caulerpa, specifically C. Paplisades like you mention and decide if I have a good chance of keeping this algae from going sexual. I've also heard it helps a lot to have an extended light cycle, like 20 hours on 4 off. I definitely want Chaeto, the ochtodes looks pretty cool and seems to be a bit more "turfy" than others. But what about red macros? I think it would really make things pop If I could mix the red and green - red graciliaria seems to be popular. Also is Ulva a good choice? I will have an intake strainer on my return pump... What are the opinions on my lighting? 2x T5HO, but the tank is only 12" deep (with the water level at 10"). Finally I have 1-2" of sand, but I could add more if needed. Regarding lamps is there any particular bulb combination that works well? I've been thinking about changing the bulbs around to try and make it look more like my LED fixture - but I probably won't have much luck with that since I only have 2 bulbs to mess with. So it's an opportunity to mix it up and get something that would be beneficial for the macros. Finally, while I'm trying to source it locally via WTB ad I'm not sure I'll find much except maybe Chaeto... What's your preferred vendor for good stuff? Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 How difficult would it be to set something like this up (not mine - but apparently from nano-reef, anyone know who's it is?)? Thats GR's 12l http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/279382-grs-12g-long-macro-reef/page-2 Link to comment
ajmckay Posted October 19, 2015 Author Share Posted October 19, 2015 Thanks Harry - spent some time searching but wasn't finding it! Link to comment
HarryPotter Posted October 19, 2015 Share Posted October 19, 2015 Thanks Harry - spent some time searching but wasn't finding it! No problem. If you have an image, you can always locate where it is on the web using Google Image Search https://www.google.com/imghp Click the little camera on the right side of the search box and it'll pop up "Upload image here". Just drag your photo there and it will find it Link to comment
Muraki Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 As a Macro, I love the rate in which Caulerpa grows, I have noticed the species that I have, (Not sure which), has not gone sexual because as mentioned above, as it grows, if you don't wish to remove the trimmings, at the very least, just cut the "Runner" every 5 inches or so and make many mini colonies. That way when or if it does, you will only have a small portion go sexual. But so far my favorite macro is the Blue Octhode. Slow grower, but you can speed it up with high light and flow. It tends to be real thick which is great for the pod life. Low light and flow it grows real slow and not nearly as thick. The Ochtodes also grow well with the Chaeto. I have an MP10 in my Spec V acting as an in tank refugium. It is entwined with Chaeto and Blue Octhode. I thought the Chaeto would kill it, but so far in the past 12 months, it has coexisted even though the Chaeto grows faster. Another option is to get some sponges. The Black/Blue sponge grows very slow, but seems to be incredibly hardy. Even when exposed to air. My Spec V can be found at this link on page 8 Link to comment
ajmckay Posted October 21, 2015 Author Share Posted October 21, 2015 Thanks for the comments Muraki. I'm not sure what species of caulerpa you have either - though it might be C. Asmeadii? Just a guess. So what light cycle do you have your sump on? I am narrowing down the list though... I think I will try to get some ochtodes - seems like a lot of people like it and it's not too difficult. Link to comment
Muraki Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Thanks for the comments Muraki. I'm not sure what species of caulerpa you have either - though it might be C. Asmeadii? Just a guess. So what light cycle do you have your sump on? I am narrowing down the list though... I think I will try to get some ochtodes - seems like a lot of people like it and it's not too difficult. When I originally got my piece of Ochtode, it got shredded in my MP10. It was so tough, that even though I thought I lost it. It began growing in the oddest of places. Ever since, issue free. It will attach itself to glass as well in less then 7 days. Link to comment
righttirefire Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 I've also.been softly looking into dressing up my sump. The ball of chaeto is kind of ugly imo, but I found this thread. http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/360848-dragons-breathblue-scroll-other-macros-fs/ Might be a good starting place aj! Totally following to steal your reseach This is also an alright Marco tank http://www.nano-reef.com/featured/_/2015/yoshii-r100 Link to comment
EricBee Posted October 21, 2015 Share Posted October 21, 2015 Cool idea. You could maybe run them on opposite schedules so you always have a tank to look at and the ph won't drop overnight. Link to comment
Tamberav Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My sump is divided the long ways just like yours and I'm slowly working on setting it up into a display. Macro's I recommend: Red titan Dragons breath Blue ochtodes Red grape Codium Blue scroll I find these calps to be easier to control: Cactus calperpa Caulerpa prolifera Link to comment
vlangel Posted October 22, 2015 Share Posted October 22, 2015 My sump is divided the long ways just like yours and I'm slowly working on setting it up into a display. Macro's I recommend: Red titan Dragons breath Blue ochtodes Red grape Codium Blue scroll I find these calps to be easier to control: Cactus calperpa Caulerpa prolifera I have a seahorse tank with macros and I agree with the above list. Once your macros take off be sure to monitor magnesium closely as they really use it up. Also they utilize iron and iodine some as well although frequent water changes can make that up and you definitely don't want to overdose those. Link to comment
ajmckay Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Thanks everyone for the comments. This idea is really growing on me more and more. However, with one of my objectives in the display tank to stick with just a few species of coral but try to have larger colonies - I think I will try to do the same here. For one this stuff gets expensive... Not coral expensive but my budget isn't that big. And at least until I really get the hang of things I'll stick with just a few in case I find out it's not for me. My hit list so far: 1) Chaetomorpha 2) Ochtodes 3) Dragons Breath OR red grape 4) Caulerpa paplisades OR prolifera If one of these can't be found reasonably cheap then backups are: 1) Gracilaria Hayi 2) Cladophora Prolifera Hows that list look? Think I can get something reasonably interesting with those? Still looking locally to see if anyone has some of these for decent prices... Finally, I stumbled on these today - I WANT! they're flippin' expensive though - does anyone know how to make them? http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Blue-Professional-ADB80501-Synthetic/dp/B007AA70B0 Link to comment
ajmckay Posted October 26, 2015 Author Share Posted October 26, 2015 Some good other threads: Anyone remember Bitts? http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/234487-the-marine-planted-tank-macro-algae-thread/ http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/244891-the-marine-planted-tank-index/ http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/235460-weeties-4-gallons-of-simplicity;-update-post-372/page-2 What is the deal with the alleopathy argument? It just seems to keep popping up. Okay so it does exist to some extent, but multiple types of algae are easily grown together, and alleopathy has no noticeable effects in an aquarium. My holding tanks are covered from head to toe with over 35 species of macro, and they have no problems. there are also a ton of tanks out there now with many different species of algae living together. The ocean is like this too. Sure they will compete for food and space, but you want them to compete for food and you control the space so why worry about it?Additionally the chemicals in algae that are fish deterrents only make them taste bad to fish. They do not harm fish or corals. They are not toxins, they will not harm livestock.Certainly corals are worse at this than macro algae. I am sure you can find one example of a tank with different kinds of coral in it on this website. No rule saying your refugium has to be boring. You can spice it up, and it will still filter.Here is my philosophy on macro algae for refugiums:You want both consistent nutrient uptake and pulse nutrient uptake:Here is what I mean by those terms: (They use similar terminology in phycology by the idea is exactly the same)Consistent Macros- Macro that need nutrient at a high level, all the time. They filter out nutrients quickly and are effective at dealing with established nutrient problems.Pulse Macros - Can handle periods of low nutrient levels well, and are long lived plantsPulse, grows quickly with consistent - somewhere in the middle, a spectrum below would have worked better but I am lazy.Red Mangroves - pulse, grows quickly with consistentBlack Mangrove - pulse, grows quickly with consistentBotryocladia (Red Grape) - pulse, grows quickly with consistentCactus Caulerpa - consistentCaulerpa Mexicana - consistentCaulerpa Prolifera - consistentChaeto - consistentChristmas Tree - pulse, grows quickly with consistentCodium - pulseDictyota ciliolata - consistentFauchea - pulseFern Caulerpa - consistentFire Fern - pulseFlame Algae - pulseGrape Caulerpa - consistentGreen Gracilaria - pulse, grows quickly with consistentHalimeda (Monile) - pulse, grows quickly with consistentHalimeda scabra (Money Plant) - pulse, grows quickly with consistentHalymenia - pulse, grows quickly with consistentHalymenia duchassaignii - pulse, grows quickly with consistentLaurencia - pulseLiagora - pulseManatee Grass - consistentMermaid's Wine Glass - pulse, grows quickly with consistentMermaid's Fan - pulseMermaid's Shot Glass - pulse, grows quickly with consistentOar Grass - pulse, grows quickly with consistentPencil Cap - pulse, grows quickly with consistentPink Galaxy - pulseRed Gracilaria - pulse, grows quickly with consistentRed Titan Algae - pulseSargassum - pulseSaw Blade Caulerpa - consistentScroll Algae - pulse, grows quickly with consistentShaving Brush - pulse, grows quickly with consistentSpatula Algae - pulseSpider Algae - consistentSuction Cup Caulerpa - consistentUlva - pulse, grows quickly with consistentThe most ideal refugiums offer a combination of all 3. The slower filtering algae is there for when your tank stops producing such high nutrient levels. Because they all compete for space, proper trimming of the consistent macros keeps them in check while the slower growers hedge your bet so to speak in case the faster growers die b/c of lack of nutrients. There is a long article about this at chuck's addiction that explains the idea better. It is here:http://www.chucksadd....com/algae.htmlOn a side note: what is the deal with "Red Kelp" - Kelp is a cold water brown macro algae that grows to 80 feet or so. Fauchea, the family of algae usually sold under this name, top out at around 12 inches usually and are red. Anyway, thought I would add that .02 as well. Hopefully it will stick. My LFS sells all algae as "kelp", Caulerpa, chaeto etc... they are all kelp to her. Link to comment
ajmckay Posted November 13, 2015 Author Share Posted November 13, 2015 As an update I'm 1/2 way to my goal (of the 4 macros)! I found another LFS near me that had macros. Got some chaeto and some caulerpa prolifera. Soon I'll put the caulerpa in the sand. Also I picked up a small mantis shrimp through a trade. I believe it's a Neogonodactylus curacaoensis. It's about 2" but hides a LOT. I'm in the process of evaluating potential tank mates. It shares the space with a 2" cowrie and hasn't attempted to make a meal of it. Honestly I think the shrimp is a bit too small to take on the cowrie. I'm thinking it would do well with a much larger purple/red/blue reef lobster... Or maybe another mantis, one that's active during the day. So here are pics: Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 14, 2015 Share Posted November 14, 2015 As an update I'm 1/2 way to my goal (of the 4 macros)! I found another LFS near me that had macros. Got some chaeto and some caulerpa prolifera. Soon I'll put the caulerpa in the sand. Also I picked up a small mantis shrimp through a trade. I believe it's a Neogonodactylus curacaoensis. It's about 2" but hides a LOT. I'm in the process of evaluating potential tank mates. It shares the space with a 2" cowrie and hasn't attempted to make a meal of it. Honestly I think the shrimp is a bit too small to take on the cowrie. I'm thinking it would do well with a much larger purple/red/blue reef lobster... Or maybe another mantis, one that's active during the day. So here are pics: I think if you mixed a mantis with another mantis or maybe even a lobster, you would eventually end up with a dead mantis. What light is that? Is it the aquatic life one? Link to comment
ajmckay Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 I think if you mixed a mantis with another mantis or maybe even a lobster, you would eventually end up with a dead mantis. What light is that? Is it the aquatic life one? I'm beginning to think that I want something a tiny bit more active... Granted reef lobsters are reclusive as fu*k.. So maybe see if I can trade in this mantis for a different one? It's quite possible if I get 2 that they would duke it out, but the tank (sump) I got this one from actually had like 4 or 5 living in there for a few months. Need to research more - this is new territory for me. As for the light, it's actually an old current nova 2x39w - probably like 2008-2009 vintage. It's been sitting in the basement for a few years due to a dead ballast. I kept it around to possibly use as a housing for another DIY LED but decided that would cost too much so I found a new electronic ballast on eBay for $5, re-wired it for the new ballast, and if you ignore the huge difference in light between the 2 tanks it actually doesn't look too bad. I really need to incorporate some lime into my display tank light Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 I'm beginning to think that I want something a tiny bit more active... Granted reef lobsters are reclusive as fu*k.. So maybe see if I can trade in this mantis for a different one? It's quite possible if I get 2 that they would duke it out, but the tank (sump) I got this one from actually had like 4 or 5 living in there for a few months. Need to research more - this is new territory for me. As for the light, it's actually an old current nova 2x39w - probably like 2008-2009 vintage. It's been sitting in the basement for a few years due to a dead ballast. I kept it around to possibly use as a housing for another DIY LED but decided that would cost too much so I found a new electronic ballast on eBay for $5, re-wired it for the new ballast, and if you ignore the huge difference in light between the 2 tanks it actually doesn't look too bad. I really need to incorporate some lime into my display tank light It may work but if one catches the other, they will definitely fight. A member here had 2 in a tank that was baffled to keep them separate. One escaped over it and they were okay for awhile but eventually one killed the other. However, it isn't impossible. They could very well set up burrows in different areas and not visit each other. I would think any active mantises would for sure fight though since they tend to explore and probably would enter other burrows. I think Kat had two mantis in her sump and they were duking it out I but don't remember if anyone was injured. I think she has a video... or maybe it was a pistol vs mantis. Can't remember... Thanks for the info on the light, I need to find a t5 for my fuge. It's hard to find anything decent that it 2 bulbs though, all the good brands are bigger fixtures. Right now I am eyeballing: http://www.saltwatertogo.com/aquaticlife-36-inch-t5-ho-2-lamp-marine-link-fixture.html It's the only fixture I have found with 2 bubs that has separate reflectors. Even their newer t5 version is a single reflector now (they downgraded imo!). I'm sure the ballasts in it are cheap as hell though. Link to comment
ajmckay Posted November 15, 2015 Author Share Posted November 15, 2015 It may work but if one catches the other, they will definitely fight. A member here had 2 in a tank that was baffled to keep them separate. One escaped over it and they were okay for awhile but eventually one killed the other. However, it isn't impossible. They could very well set up burrows in different areas and not visit each other. I would think any active mantises would for sure fight though since they tend to explore and probably would enter other burrows. I think Kat had two mantis in her sump and they were duking it out I but don't remember if anyone was injured. I think she has a video... or maybe it was a pistol vs mantis. Can't remember... Thanks for the info on the light, I need to find a t5 for my fuge. It's hard to find anything decent that it 2 bulbs though, all the good brands are bigger fixtures. Right now I am eyeballing: http://www.saltwatertogo.com/aquaticlife-36-inch-t5-ho-2-lamp-marine-link-fixture.html It's the only fixture I have found with 2 bubs that has separate reflectors. Even their newer t5 version is a single reflector now (they downgraded imo!). I'm sure the ballasts in it are cheap as hell though. The divider idea is pretty cool.... Wouldn't be too hard to stick a piece of acrylic in there ... Or I just trade in my current mantis (actually looks pretty cool - search "Dark Mantis" its got some bright coloration. So finding a good T5 light seems to be somewhat difficult at the moment. IMO this probably wouldn't be a bad choice if you're just looking for a good sump light: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1128-Current-USA-36-Nova-Extreme-2-x-39watt-T5H-10K-Freshwater-NEW-/272044170792?hash=item3f57189e28:g:X1oAAOSwDk5T920p It's even a FW light so has a warmer color temp which seems is actually preferable for macroalgae. It does have a single polished reflector though... If you really want individual though I may have an extra 36" 2 bulb individual reflector for a nova (but maybe fits others too?) that you can have if you pay shipping - and I can find a box Link to comment
Tamberav Posted November 15, 2015 Share Posted November 15, 2015 The divider idea is pretty cool.... Wouldn't be too hard to stick a piece of acrylic in there ... Or I just trade in my current mantis (actually looks pretty cool - search "Dark Mantis" its got some bright coloration. So finding a good T5 light seems to be somewhat difficult at the moment. IMO this probably wouldn't be a bad choice if you're just looking for a good sump light: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1128-Current-USA-36-Nova-Extreme-2-x-39watt-T5H-10K-Freshwater-NEW-/272044170792?hash=item3f57189e28:g:X1oAAOSwDk5T920p It's even a FW light so has a warmer color temp which seems is actually preferable for macroalgae. It does have a single polished reflector though... If you really want individual though I may have an extra 36" 2 bulb individual reflector for a nova (but maybe fits others too?) that you can have if you pay shipping - and I can find a box Thanks for the offer, will have to see what I end up settling with. I was also thinking about 2 of these: http://reefled.ca/photic-54/ But perhaps t5's might grow macro better. Link to comment
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