DIY KZ Coral Snow (with >97% purity)

[olemanwinter]

The pH in our tanks is much too high for it to dissolve, so it has no effect on calcium, all, or pH levels.

 

So, does it just precipitate right away? Like dosing too much Calc on a system with high PH?

 

My understanding (which is severely limited) is that our corals take up Calcium Bicarbonate and convert it into Calcium Carbonate for their skeletons. At least I think that's right.

 

When Calcium Carbonate exist prior to that transformation, it becomes visible as calcium deposits (in lines and on equipment) and/or in precipitated solids in the water column.

 

So, how is this different?

[jedimasterben]

 

So, does it just precipitate right away? Like dosing too much Calc on a system with high PH?

 

My understanding (which is severely limited) is that our corals take up Calcium Bicarbonate and convert it into Calcium Carbonate for their skeletons. At least I think that's right.

 

When Calcium Carbonate exist prior to that transformation, it becomes visible as calcium deposits (in lines and on equipment) and/or in precipitated solids in the water column.

 

So, how is this different?

When you add this stuff, it is not abiotically precipitating, which is how it winds up on pumps, etc. It is not staying in the water column long enough to do anything else since it is extremely fine and is easy to blow around.

 

Corals do not take up calcium bicarbonate, they take the two up separately. Calcium carbonate and bicarbonate are insoluble in seawater since the pH is too high, so if it existed as such, it would not be dissolved in the water and just exist as sand on the bottom of the ocean

[olemanwinter]

When you add this stuff, it is not abiotically precipitating, which is how it winds up on pumps, etc. It is not staying in the water column long enough to do anything else since it is extremely fine and is easy to blow around.

 

Corals do not take up calcium bicarbonate, they take the two up separately. Calcium carbonate and bicarbonate are insoluble in seawater since the pH is too high, so if it existed as such, it would not be dissolved in the water and just exist as sand on the bottom of the ocean

 

I've got to stop trying learn more about reef chemistry. Every time someone answers I get more confused.

 

I read this whole article (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/) and thought I was beginning to understand.

 

One excerpt:

 

"Unfortunately, there is a natural tendency toward the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of insoluble calcium carbonate from the water as calcium ions and carbonate ions combine. "

 

So...like I said....wouldn't introducing calcium carbonate essentially be the same thing as when you dose something and it precipitates into calcium carbonate solids?

 

I'm not saying it does the same thing...I'm saying it would be the same thing.

 

For example, if you dose 2-part too quickly and you get precipitate as a result....that's generally considered a bad thing, something to avoid. But this product sounds like you would be purposefully adding the same end result directly instead of by accident as a product of something else.

 

 

Or, in other words....when something "precipitates" in your reef tank it creates insoluble calcium carbonate that floats around. This is considered bad. So how is dosing insoluble calcium carbonate directly any different?

[jedimasterben]

 

I've got to stop trying learn more about reef chemistry. Every time someone answers I get more confused.

 

I read this whole article (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-06/rhf/) and thought I was beginning to understand.

 

One excerpt:

 

"Unfortunately, there is a natural tendency toward the abiotic (nonbiological) precipitation of insoluble calcium carbonate from the water as calcium ions and carbonate ions combine. "

 

So...like I said....wouldn't introducing calcium carbonate essentially be the same thing as when you dose something and it precipitates into calcium carbonate solids?

 

I'm not saying it does the same thing...I'm saying it would be the same thing.

 

For example, if you dose 2-part too quickly and you get precipitate as a result....that's generally considered a bad thing, something to avoid. But this product sounds like you would be purposefully adding the same end result directly instead of by accident as a product of something else.

 

 

Or, in other words....when something "precipitates" in your reef tank it creates insoluble calcium carbonate that floats around. This is considered bad. So how is dosing insoluble calcium carbonate directly any different?

Not really sure what you're trying to figure out. Adding calcium carbonate to your reef will not alter the tank chemistry. Abiotic precipitation produces calcium carbonate just the same, along with sodium chloride. When you dose two part, you do it because you are trying to raise your calcium and alkalinity. Precipitating this out is bad because you're dosing it to raise your levels and the calcium carbonate produced cannot contribute to that purpose, so your cal and alk levels will continue to fall.

[olemanwinter]

Not really sure what you're trying to figure out. Adding calcium carbonate to your reef will not alter the tank chemistry. Abiotic precipitation produces calcium carbonate just the same, along with sodium chloride. When you dose two part, you do it because you are trying to raise your calcium and alkalinity. Precipitating this out is bad because you're dosing it to raise your levels and the calcium carbonate produced cannot contribute to that purpose, so your cal and alk levels will continue to fall.

 

I'm not sure if I'm confused or if you are just obfuscating. This is not a "trick question". It's like you are trying to guess at some point I'm making so you can head it off. I'm not arguing against your product or process or whatever.

 

I understand that a reefer might do something on Tuesday on purpose that he tried to avoid on Monday. I grasp that.

 

I'm going to try if I can to consolidate my question into a "yes or no" question and see if it helps this conversation.

 

Is dosing calcium carbonate directly to the tank introducing the exact same substance that is a product of the "precipitation" of insoluble calcium carbonate that sometimes occurs in our tanks?

 

Now, you're under obligation to answer of course. But if you could try to refrain from guessing about my larger agenda (for lack of a better word) and just let me know if I am understanding that part in bold correctly....that'd be super duper

[jedimasterben]

 

I'm not sure if I'm confused or if you are just obfuscating. This is not a "trick question". It's like you are trying to guess at some point I'm making so you can head it off. I'm not arguing against your product or process or whatever.

 

I understand that a reefer might do something on Tuesday on purpose that he tried to avoid on Monday. I grasp that.

 

I'm going to try if I can to consolidate my question into a "yes or no" question and see if it helps this conversation.

 

Is dosing calcium carbonate directly to the tank introducing the exact same substance that is a product of the "precipitation" of insoluble calcium carbonate that sometimes occurs in our tanks?

 

Now, you're under obligation to answer of course. But if you could try to refrain from guessing about my larger agenda (for lack of a better word) and just let me know if I am understanding that part in bold correctly....that'd be super duper

No, I was just plain confused lol. Calcium carbonate is as pure as you purchase it. If you mix calcium chloride and sodium carbonate, you will get the same calcium carbonate and also add sodium chloride (aka salt).

[cromag27]

Well I dosed my tank (60 gallon total volume approximately) last night before bed with 3ml. I am not able to get quality before and afters so far but I can say that I does make a huge difference. It's like viewing the tank in HD is the closest comparison I can make. I'll try to post pics if I can get some.

 

 

 

 

Did you find it locally?

[bdevillier19]

Did you find it locally?

Nope, amazon prime. Stuff works great though. Made some for Matt and he seems to like it. Already asking me for more. Lol.

[bob115]

 

I'm not sure if I'm confused or if you are just obfuscating. This is not a "trick question". It's like you are trying to guess at some point I'm making so you can head it off. I'm not arguing against your product or process or whatever.

 

I understand that a reefer might do something on Tuesday on purpose that he tried to avoid on Monday. I grasp that.

 

I'm going to try if I can to consolidate my question into a "yes or no" question and see if it helps this conversation.

 

Is dosing calcium carbonate directly to the tank introducing the exact same substance that is a product of the "precipitation" of insoluble calcium carbonate that sometimes occurs in our tanks?

 

Now, you're under obligation to answer of course. But if you could try to refrain from guessing about my larger agenda (for lack of a better word) and just let me know if I am understanding that part in bold correctly....that'd be super duper

 

What I think you're trying to ask is if this will cause more calcium carbonate to precipitate. Which the answer is no. Calcium ions and bicarbonate ions exist in the water. But what you are adding is solid calcium carbonate crystals. The solid crystals will not dissolve in tank conditions, if it did your coral skeletons would dissolve away into nothing. You're basically just adding really really fine sand that things will stick to.

 

Abiotic precipitation of the calcium carbonate occurs because sea (and tank) water has super saturated levels of the aforementioned ions. These are generally kept in solution by the effects of the magnesium ions in the water; however some still does occasionally precipitate out, especially in areas where local conditions reduce solubility of the ions, like heaters.

 

The reason this is somewhat different than what happens when two part is added too quickly together too close to each other is that you're adding the end product as a solid (sand essentially) that never enters solution. The reason the precipitation--different than settling--associated with mixing two part is undesirable is because you're adding those chemicals (which cost money) to add more of the ions into solution and when they precipitate out like that you haven't accomplished your goal and you've wasted the chemicals (money) making sand.

 

 

Hope that helps clear up the differences.

[BRN]

 

What I think you're trying to ask is if this will cause more calcium carbonate to precipitate. Which the answer is no. Calcium ions and bicarbonate ions exist in the water. But what you are adding is solid calcium carbonate crystals. The solid crystals will not dissolve in tank conditions, if it did your coral skeletons would dissolve away into nothing. You're basically just adding really really fine sand that things will stick to.

 

Abiotic precipitation of the calcium carbonate occurs because sea (and tank) water has super saturated levels of the aforementioned ions. These are generally kept in solution by the effects of the magnesium ions in the water; however some still does occasionally precipitate out, especially in areas where local conditions reduce solubility of the ions, like heaters.

 

The reason this is somewhat different than what happens when two part is added too quickly together too close to each other is that you're adding the end product as a solid (sand essentially) that never enters solution. The reason the precipitation--different than settling--associated with mixing two part is undesirable is because you're adding those chemicals (which cost money) to add more of the ions into solution and when they precipitate out like that you haven't accomplished your goal and you've wasted the chemicals (money) making sand.

 

 

Hope that helps clear up the differences.

 

+1 good info

[cromag27]

Nope, amazon prime. Stuff works great though. Made some for Matt and he seems to like it. Already asking me for more. Lol.

 

Yeah but he's easily fooled by any type of placebo effect. lol.

[olemanwinter]

 

What I think you're trying to ask is if this will cause more calcium carbonate to precipitate.

 

No. That's not what I was asking. I think I've been extremely clear (especially in my last post) with what exactly I am asking. But people seem unable to figure out why I would want to ask the question or assume it's a nonsensical question, that the answer doesn't matter, so they try to imagine a different question I might be trying to ask, or skip ahead to address some point they think I'm making.

 

Precipitation in a reef tank is "insoluble calcium carbonate" which is exactly what we are talking about dosing directly in this thread. Correct or Incorrect? Yes or No?

 

That question is so painfully simple. PAINFULLY SIMPLE.

 

I asked it here with another phrasing:

 

 

 

Is dosing calcium carbonate directly to the tank introducing the exact same substance that is a product of the "precipitation" of insoluble calcium carbonate that sometimes occurs in our tanks?

 

That is a yes or no question. The reply I got was that "Calcium carbonate is as pure as you can purchase it" (face/palm) and a description of the way calcium carbonate is made (double face/palm). I gave up until you quoted me tonight.

 

I will try one final way to ask a yes or no question to which maybe someone will simply accept my premise and answer plainly.

 

Is there any different between the calcium carbonate dosing discussed in this thread and the substance we call "precipitation" in a reef tank?

 

I'm not asking if one will increase the other. I'm not asking if it's bad or good. I'm not asking how precipitation occurs. I'm not asking what happens to insoluble calcium carbonate in the reef tank.

Are the two things the same? That's it and that's all....for Pete's sake. lol

[mystersyster]

 

No. That's not what I was asking. I think I've been extremely clear (especially in my last post) with what exactly I am asking. But people seem unable to figure out why I would want to ask the question or assume it's a nonsensical question, that the answer doesn't matter, so they try to imagine a different question I might be trying to ask, or skip ahead to address some point they think I'm making.

 

Precipitation in a reef tank is "insoluble calcium carbonate" which is exactly what we are talking about dosing directly in this thread. Correct or Incorrect? Yes or No?

 

That question is so painfully simple. PAINFULLY SIMPLE.

 

I asked it here with another phrasing:

 

 

 

That is a yes or no question. The reply I got was that "Calcium carbonate is as pure as you can purchase it" (face/palm) and a description of the way calcium carbonate is made (double face/palm). I gave up until you quoted me tonight.

 

I will try one final way to ask a yes or no question to which maybe someone will simply accept my premise and answer plainly.

 

Is there any different between the calcium carbonate dosing discussed in this thread and the substance we call "precipitation" in a reef tank?

 

I'm not asking if one will increase the other. I'm not asking if it's bad or good. I'm not asking how precipitation occurs. I'm not asking what happens to insoluble calcium carbonate in the reef tank.

Are the two things the same? That's it and that's all....for Pete's sake. lol

Apparently it get's filtered out through skimming. They are the same.

[jedimasterben]

Is there any different between the calcium carbonate dosing discussed in this thread and the substance we call "precipitation" in a reef tank?

If you're talking about what happens on pumps and heaters, yes. If you're talking about dosing calcium chloride and sodium carbonate without waiting between each, then no. Dosing straight calcium carbonate is a better option as it is more pure and does not also add sodium chloride, which raises your salinity over time.

[bob115]

Is there any different between the calcium carbonate dosing discussed in this thread and the substance we call "precipitation" in a reef tank?

 

Yes these are the same substances. No the effects are not the same because these have different physical properties like crystal size. Also, adding the CaCO3 solids doesn't lower the tank's Ca and Alk like precipitation necessarily does.

[smiz]

You guys are hurting my head..... I just got my bag today so will make some this weekend. What happens if I am unable to use filter floss or something and it just stays in my tank? Please do not use big words...

[jedimasterben]

You guys are hurting my head..... I just got my bag today so will make some this weekend. What happens if I am unable to use filter floss or something and it just stays in my tank? Please do not use big words...

If you have no mechanical filtration or a skimmer, then do not dose it. Otherwise, your system will stay cloudy until you do so.

[smiz]

If you have no mechanical filtration or a skimmer, then do not dose it. Otherwise, your system will stay cloudy until you do so.

I have a filter sock and skimmer, my filter socks are just a PITA to remove currently so Im wondering what will happen if I leave it.

 

thanks ben!

[blkhwkz]

Got mine from Amazon yesterday and mixed it up this morning. Dosed the tank a few minutes ago and waiting for it to clear up now.

[gus6464]

so what's everyone buying now?

 

http://smile.amazon.com/BulkSupplements-Calcium-Carbonate-Powder-Kilogram/dp/B00GI1UZKU/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1440779329&sr=8-9&keywords=calcium%20carbonate%20powder&pebp=1440779428597&perid=12VRRJBABWSV16620CAV&tag=viglink20358-20&sa-no-redirect=1

 

or

 

http://smile.amazon.com/Grade-Calcium-Carbonate-Ground-Limestone/dp/B00959XKGI/ref=redir_mobile_desktop?ie=UTF8&dpID=51I%20f4NU2LL&dpPl=1&keywords=calcium%20carbonate%20powder&qid=1440639875&ref=plSrch&ref_=mp_s_a_1_4&sa-no-redirect=1&sr=8-4&tag=viglink20358-20

 

 

The first one is 100% calcium carbonate and says so in the label. I have that one.

[jedimasterben]

I have a filter sock and skimmer, my filter socks are just a PITA to remove currently so Im wondering what will happen if I leave it.

 

thanks ben!

Do you not run a skimmer? I personally prefer the skimmer for removing this stuff, I don't run filter socks on my systems unless I'm doing a 'deep clean' weekend. I only run single micron socks, so with this stuff they literally fill up in about 10 minutes!

[smiz]

Do you not run a skimmer? I personally prefer the skimmer for removing this stuff, I don't run filter socks on my systems unless I'm doing a 'deep clean' weekend. I only run single micron socks, so with this stuff they literally fill up in about 10 minutes!

Sorry, I do run my skimmer. Did I miss somewhere that I can just run my skimmer and it will take care of this stuff?

[jedimasterben]

Sorry, I do run my skimmer. Did I miss somewhere that I can just run my skimmer and it will take care of this stuff?

Yes, a skimmer will actually remove it better since it runs constantly and you don't have to worry about it clogging

[smiz]

Yes, a skimmer will actually remove it better since it runs constantly and you don't have to worry about it clogging

ok awesome now ill leave you alone!! Thanks for the write up!

[olemanwinter]

They are the same.

 

 

Yes these are the same substances.

 

Boom. Done.