Sleeping with the Fishes [a pe(s)t project]

[metrokat]

New salt can cause different reactions. I use NeoMarine as well. It has higher magnesium as I understand it, it could explain the sluggish inverts. When using new salt I try to do a gradual switch over. mixing 80-20 old and new - then increasing to 50-50, 20-80 and so on.

[Mariaface]

I've slowed down my inverts via water change when magnesium was too high in the new salt. Subsequent water changes weren't an issue, but that's probably because magnesium went up more smoothly with dosing.

[holy carp]

Well, I wasn't sure what would happen when I changed salt. I think I meant to get Tropic Marin, which they recommended at Manhattan Aquariums, but bought Neo Marine instead. Oh well, I got them mixed up, but Neo Marine is EXACTLY sea water!!!

 

I mix my saltwater in typical 5g buckets. With I/O Reef Crystals, I always always always used 2.5 cups of salt mix to make 5 gallons and get 1.025 sg. In the beginning, my tank water was typically testing around 1300+ Mg, 8-9 dKH, and 420 Ca. I wasn't testing the freshly mixed water, but I had hardly any corals to consume anything. Towards the end of the I/O bucket, I tested it 3 ways. Immediately after mixing: 1160/9.2/390, 1 day old: 1240/10.9/470, and 1 week old: 1240/11.0/410 These were 3 different batches, NOT the same batch at different points.

 

Now the very strange part about the BA Neo Marine was that in order to get the same 5g bucket up to 1.025, I used less than 2 cups of mix. That immediately concerned me that something else might be missing. How could it use such a different amount? Even the instructions on the bucket say ~0.5 cups per gallon. I tested that bucket about 18 hours after mixing and got 1240/7.8/380. So basically the Mg was similar to the Reef Crystals, but Alk and Ca seem lower. I'm dosing daily, so I wasn't too concerned about those, but I am not sure about how all the other trace elements compare.

 

Other observations:

IORC is way more dusty, so it dissolves faster, but gets into the air more and can be irritating if inhaled

BANM is more granular, so makes no dust and doesn't have as much of an odor (dry or dissolved)

IORC has a lot more brown precipitate when left in the bucket

BANM has a lot more dark particles that never dissolve

 

 

OK, so I made a short story long...

I don't believe any of my levels (that I test, anyway) have changed that much. Yesterday's results were

pH 8.2

Mg 1400 (I had dosed it up on 2/22 from 1320, and typically target between 1300 and 1400, but feel that the Red Sea test for this has a high error margin or variability)

dKH 7.6 (I always target between 7.0 and 8.0)

Ca 430 (I test Ca infrequently, but it's typically 410-430)

NO3 0.00 (That test has never shown anything else)

PO4 0.00 (The colors are hard to read. Could be between 0.00 and 0.25)

sg 1.025

temp 78.8°F

 

Also, the introduction of the new salt was not a true water change, but an addition of 5 gallons to the system. So I went from 15 gallons of IORC to 20 gallons total.

 

Anyway, we'll see in time how the cat opens up again. One cool thing about seeing it closed like this is that for the first time I was able to see all the skeleton it has built. Wow. It went from small parallel sides to these cool corrugated furls that almost look like the edges of a giant clam. I also found this article by Albert Thiel, in which he says that the elegance corals commonly go through phases of not opening as much, so it all could just be coincidental timing with the new salt. The article is a bit redundant about a few points, but lists a lot of interesting things about catalaphyllia that I hadn't read elsewhere...

 

(Oh, and I moved the sluggish snails over to another rock to see if they behave differently in a day or two)

[metrokat]

Good observations, you're always so detailed.

NeoMarine needs to be mixed 24 hours, I'm sure you did that. I keep a small bag of IO around just in case I need water instantly.

[holy carp]

I may have only waited about 20 hours... However, I had also read somewhere that all salt mixes including IO should not be used instantly. (Is their brand a misnomer? I don't know... Their label definitely says it can be used immediately)

 

If my tests are accurate, it looks like certain elements (particularly Mg)may not fully dissolve until later. That said, I'm not sure it would be harmful to use immediately. I have used 1-hour old Reef Crystal water before and never noticed any corals or fish behave differently.

 

Really my biggest curiosity is that the neomarine used so little mix to make a batch. I'm going to mix up a new batch this afternoon for tomorrow's w/c, so I'll see how much I need this time. They claim their process ensures excellent homogeneity in each bucket.

 

"Our production process promotes uniformity of particle size and homogeneity throughout each container."

 

At <2 cups per 5g, I'd get a lot more than 150 gallons out of that bucket...

 

I usually try to mix up saltwater with cool water first to help Ca dissolve. I let the pump run for a few hours until the water looks clear. Then let it sit overnight with the pump off, covered but not sealed. Then I warm it with heaters while the pump is aerating until it reaches 78° before doing a water change. I didn't do any tests, but felt like mixing with cooler water to start reduced the amount of precipitation I'd have in the buckets.

[Mariaface]

I have to use a lot less Aquavitro Salinity to get to 1.026. The packaging claims it's a lack of moisture?

 

There could be a trace element in the new salt having the slowing effect?

[holy carp]

OK, so I can't say that it's proven, but I can say that it officially seems my corals do not prefer the BA Neomarine to IO Reef Crystals. I changed 4 more gallons on Sunday (20ish%). Since then, most SPS (Sunset Monti, Purple Bonsai, Green Slimer, Optimus Prime, questionable Oregon tort) are showing noticeably less PE. OK, so for the record, that's all my SPS except one frag that has never had PE...

 

The catalaphyllia centerpiece is still more contracted than usual (at least at night - it's starting to open up more again during the day). Even my GSP is 99% closed up - that's something I haven't seen in months. Not complaining yet - I really love to see that purple ostrich skin on occasion.

 

Regarding this WC, I didn't test the parameters of the new seawater before adding it to the system, but I will note that to make the 4gal still took <2 cups. More salt mix/gallon than the first batch, but still appreciably less than what I've been accustomed to with IORC.

 

Tank test results still look normal, though I admittedly don't test for trace elements, so there must be something 'minor' making the difference.

 

But Bruce Jenner is frisky, so heshe doesn't mind the salt change. And the zoas and yumas look very happy. Acan/Micros are unfazed.

 

 

 

Stay tuned...

My new water change device prototype is promising. It's in the early test stages, but the next version will get documented.

[metrokat]

I always mix in cool water too, it's really just the temperature my RO bucket is at all the time. And the mixing pump heats it up enough that I don't need heaters.

[holy carp]

OK, so this is one unhappy tank.

 

Quick timeline:

2/14 5g water change with Reef Crystals and new carbon in media bag

2/21 4g water change with Neomarine

2/28 4g water change with Neomarine

3/03 5g water change with Neomarine

 

My Chemipure elite is 2.5 months old now, so that might be due for replacement, but I can't believe that would make such a difference. I ran the tank for 6 months before using Chemipure in the first place.

 

Phosguard is 3 months old, but I still detect 0 phosphates

 

Here's the water testing history

 

 

 

So even though the tests don't indicate much has changed, here's the horror:

 

Green Slimer on 2/21 prior to water change:

 

Here's the same coral on 2/28 prior to the second BA water change:

 

Here it is this morning (3/4) after the 3rd BA water change on 3/3:

 

 

YIKES! What do I do?

 

Could this really be from the salt mix?

[holy carp]

Here's another example. Though not quite as extreme color-wise, PE is practically non-existent:

 

2/21:

 

2/28:

 

3/4:

 

Sorry white balance is so inconsistent.

[metrokat]

I was looking at your tests and 0 phosphates was the only thing that stood out to me when I look at the loss of color on the slimer.

Phosguard is exceptionally fast and brutal when it comes to reducing phosphates quickly. I will never use it in my tank for that reason, when I did my clam was pissed off, and other things reacted negatively. I've chronicled this if you search for phosguard with my name as the author. It works but I'm never using it again.

 

You're doing water changes 2-3 days apart which is excessive on top of phosguard and other media. My gut feeling is that the water is far too clean and getting cleaner.

 

There are several things you could try. Remove phosguard, don't do a WC for a week or more, feed coral foods like reef roids.

 

I'm on my 3rd bucket of NeoMarine and have another bucket in the closet, but every salt user will tell you that batches vary bucket to bucket so you may have a bad batch. You could try a small box of your previous salt to see if it helps.

[holy carp]

Yeah, my normal routine was weekly ~3-5 gallons. I did an extra one last night because I thought a: maybe there's some toxin I can reduce and b: I wanted to vacuum the sand since I haven't been too aggressive doing that for the last month or so.

 

The phosguard is old now, so I don't think it should have caused a change, but I know what you mean about it being aggressive. That said, I'm still seeing a normal amount of algae growth, so I think the 0 test results are partly due to how difficult it is to read those colors in the low range on the Red Sea tests.

 

I'll try pulling the phosguard and feeding more. I couldn't find Reef Crystals in small quantities, but I picked up a small box of regular IO last night. I'll try a water change with that this weekend after dosing the mixed water to match Mg, Alk, Ca.

 

When you mix up your BA, do you get dark gray particles like this in the bottom of your bucket?

[CronicReefer]

Yeah, my normal routine was weekly ~3-5 gallons. I did an extra one last night because I thought a: maybe there's some toxin I can reduce and b: I wanted to vacuum the sand since I haven't been too aggressive doing that for the last month or so.

 

The phosguard is old now, so I don't think it should have caused a change, but I know what you mean about it being aggressive. That said, I'm still seeing a normal amount of algae growth, so I think the 0 test results are partly due to how difficult it is to read those colors in the low range on the Red Sea tests.

 

I'll try pulling the phosguard and feeding more. I couldn't find Reef Crystals in small quantities, but I picked up a small box of regular IO last night. I'll try a water change with that this weekend after dosing the mixed water to match Mg, Alk, Ca.

 

When you mix up your BA, do you get dark gray particles like this in the bottom of your bucket?

Mine has never looked like that. Mixes extremely clear usually within a few hours no particles or residue. Maybe you did get a bad bucket or your water is becoming too clean like Kat said.

[metrokat]

 

When you mix up your BA, do you get dark gray particles like this in the bottom of your bucket?

 

Yes, I get the particles.

Mine has never looked like that. Mixes extremely clear usually within a few hours no particles or residue. Maybe you did get a bad bucket or your water is becoming too clean like Kat said.

Mine mixes perfectly clear also but there are the particles on the bottom.

[CronicReefer]

Yes, I get the particles.

 

Mine mixes perfectly clear also but there are the particles on the bottom.

Strange I wonder why I've never had that. Do you know what it is exactly?

[metrokat]

Strange I wonder why I've never had that. Do you know what it is exactly?

Not sure TBH, I didn't get it in my first bucket, but the last 2 have had it.

[holy carp]

Well, I sent a support request to Brightwell Aquatics through their website this morning. Not even 10 minutes after clicking the submit button, my phone rang. It was Jack Kent calling to find out more information. Talk about customer service! He said the black particles happen when Magnesium Oxide gets into the mix - it's not harmful, but also not intentional so doesn't occur in all batches.

 

They're going to test the batch based on the lot number and help with troubleshooting to determine if there may be anything unusual in this batch of salt. Perhaps ship my bucket back for use in a test&control comparison. In the interim, I'm going to pick up some other salt to use.

 

Also, if you notice in the photo, though it's not in focus, I always get a significant film on the surface of the water. You can make it out against the black background of the MJ1200. Not sure if others have noticed this.

 

As a footnote regarding the lower amount of salt mix required relative to others, Jack indicated that was due to the fact they only use anhydrous salts, so by weight they should require the least amount of salt mix to achieve a desired salinity since they aren't bound with water molecules in the mix.

 

I'll update here as we learn more, but for the time being, all I can say is that I'm quite impressed at this point with the support and commitment BA shows to its customers.

[CronicReefer]

I'm glad they are being so responsive with your concerns. Hopefully things work out for the best as you have quite a spectacular tank coming together.

[holy carp]

Well, in the meantime I picked up a box of Tropic Marin mix at the LFS. I mixed and let it sit over night and got the following

 

sg 1.025

Mg 1240

dKH 7.0

Ca 390

 

There were a couple of very small particles at the bottom, but nothing very noteworthy. No film on top.

 

A 5g water change and I'll keep my eye on the corals.

 

 

Here's an updated timelapse of the Green Slimer:

[holy carp]

The cyphastrea seems to be the most pissed off right now. I don't have a good picture of how green it was a few weeks ago, just a really old one from when I picked up the frag.

 

Original.

 

I had it for a while in a cave because I read they like low light. Well, the green started to fade, so I put it on the frag rack in early January, where it got nice and green again. But yesterday:

[holy carp]

Well, I posted this in the ID forum, but figured I'd throw it up here, too:

 

I just cleaned away some bubble algae from one of my rocks and decided to take a close look at the tank with a loupe.

 

I came across these apparent eggs on my torch coral. Any idea what these could be?

 

3/9 evening:

 

 

I happened to have a little bit of recent history of that coral:

 

3/1 - when the heads had the last strand of connection before fully growing apart. There's a white area that may have been eggs like that that I never noticed.

 

 

3/5

 

3/9 - this morning

[Mariaface]

Those totally look like snail egg 'packets' to me; I get them once in a while. Can't remember which type, though; that type of snail may have disappeared when I had that mantis I've only seen twice.

[holy carp]

I had thought it might be from snails. Perhaps they liked that spot because it was pretty freshly grown skeleton, so possibly cleaner/smoother than the rock?

 

Never saw this type on the glass, or anywhere else for that matter, so I had a moment of panic that I discovered an unknown euphyllia eating nudibranch.

[ReefWeeds]

I had thought it might be from snails. Perhaps they liked that spot because it was pretty freshly grown skeleton, so possibly cleaner/smoother than the rock?

 

Never saw this type on the glass, or anywhere else for that matter, so I had a moment of panic that I discovered an unknown euphyllia eating nudibranch.

 

Ok, want to hear something weird? I had a hammer that was doing great. Was even doing great Tuesday night as I took a couple pictures of it. Yesterday afternoon, it was covered in goo and dead. Boom. Overnight. when I removed it, I noticed the same type of eggs on the skeleton. I assumed snails since I have a bunch of different types.

and I'm not saying or indicating that the eggs were the cause of the hammer death, I just happened to see this post and thought holy cow. That's weird.

[metrokat]

Those totally look like snail egg 'packets' to me; I get them once in a while. Can't remember which type, though; that type of snail may have disappeared when I had that mantis I've only seen twice.

I think you're right. It's a neat little bunch though. My snails lay all over the place, and it's gooey and stringy - yuck.