Sleeping with the Fishes [a pe(s)t project]

[holy carp]

Great tank I'm just going to keep watching my snail for a bit longer then I'll be building my own ☺

 

Thanks. I definitely enjoyed the design and building part as well. It takes a bit longer to DIY, but it is rewarding.

 

Now can you do that with my tank?

 

Thanks, Kat. I could try, but your tank is so mature and full of corals that it may end up looking just the same as a color photo.

 

Hah!! My little clown guy is named Lenny too! But my girl is Squiggy

I love it. I wonder if there's a clown pair named Laverne and Shirley out there...

[Angeles]

This build is so great! I love the growth GIFs, good idea. That green slimer is doing so well in this tank. When did you start this reef?

[holy carp]

This build is so great! I love the growth GIFs, good idea. That green slimer is doing so well in this tank. When did you start this reef?

 

Thank you.

 

The first fish was added June 15th, and the first corals June 28th. The green slimer was among the first, but I didn't glue it to its final spot until the beginning of August, which is when the time-lapse begins.

 

(I've tried to maintain a timeline here, though I admittedly haven't been too diligent...)

 

I'm actually getting a bit frightened at how fast that guy is growing. It's quickly approaching the top of the water, and I'm not sure if acros are like Icarus, or have a better sense of self-preservation.

[Angeles]

Interesting... You can always frag off of it and place it in another part of your tank to grow out. I've seen reefs with multiple colonies of the same species growing across different places, and it can look really nice! I imagine you could do that, or always frag it and sell the frags. What glue do you use?

[holy carp]

Interesting... You can always frag off of it and place it in another part of your tank to grow out. I've seen reefs with multiple colonies of the same species growing across different places, and it can look really nice! I imagine you could do that, or always frag it and sell the frags. What glue do you use?

 

Yeah. I'll probably be pruning sooner than I expected. Now that I've gotten rid of the chaetomorpha, the center of the sump may become my frag tank...

 

As impressive as chock-full tanks can be, I don't want this to be stuffed like a mini Mike Paletta tank, so I'll probably avoid multiple colonies of the same corals. (Unless I someday get a hold of some insanely expensive or rare sticks) As the corals have grown (especially the catalaphyllia in the center), I feel like I'm losing the negative space I originally intended. Not a problem yet, but I think I might have been better off with slightly shorter rockwork.

 

So far, I've only been using the super glue gel. I try to get rid of frag plugs ASAP - I've been making my own from chips or rubble of aragonite with little fiberglass stems. I'll post a pic when I get a chance.

[metrokat]

What's new?

[Angeles]

 

Yeah. I'll probably be pruning sooner than I expected. Now that I've gotten rid of the chaetomorpha, the center of the sump may become my frag tank...

 

As impressive as chock-full tanks can be, I don't want this to be stuffed like a mini Mike Paletta tank, so I'll probably avoid multiple colonies of the same corals. (Unless I someday get a hold of some insanely expensive or rare sticks) As the corals have grown (especially the catalaphyllia in the center), I feel like I'm losing the negative space I originally intended. Not a problem yet, but I think I might have been better off with slightly shorter rockwork.

 

So far, I've only been using the super glue gel. I try to get rid of frag plugs ASAP - I've been making my own from chips or rubble of aragonite with little fiberglass stems. I'll post a pic when I get a chance.

I wouldn't worry, while you may lose some of that negative space, usually most sps you can see through to the back, keeping the illusion of negative space. I think it will look amazing when grown out. I intentionally did shorter rockwork in my cube because when I get some sps/ tall leathers in there they'll grow out to fill the space without taking it away.

 

How do you take the corals off the frag plus? I want to glue all my corals down because none of them are...

[holy carp]

What's new?

 

These:

 

From a guy in Brooklyn - he said Oregon Blue Tort, but I'm suspicious... Look at that PE...

 

 

And I have no idea what this one is. The tissue at the bottom really suffered from 1 hour travel time and a typical ReVive dip... Should I take action, or wait and see? It's been in for just about 2 weeks now.

poor thing. Trying to be optimistic, but not holding my breath.

I wouldn't worry, while you may lose some of that negative space, usually most sps you can see through to the back, keeping the illusion of negative space. I think it will look amazing when grown out. I intentionally did shorter rockwork in my cube because when I get some sps/ tall leathers in there they'll grow out to fill the space without taking it away.

 

How do you take the corals off the frag plus? I want to glue all my corals down because none of them are...

 

I usually cut them off with a pair of bone cutters - I try to nip at the superglue first, and usually they pop right off. It's tougher for encrusting. For those, I've used the same cutters to crush and chop away the plug where the coral isn't attached yet so it doesn't look so round.

 

That's what I did with this:

 

and it grew into this after 6 weeks:

[holy carp]

AAARRRGGGHHH!

 

Red bugs...

 

 

What to do - buy Bayer or a Dragon Face?

[metrokat]

Hey, I just saw the pics, you've got more than just red bugs, I see FW on one of the pieces from the brooklyn guy. It may just be the benign kinds, but given the state of the acro that is suffering, I am inclined tho think he had a lot of pests.

 

The treatment for red bugs is interceptor. The treatment for AEFW is bayer outside of the tank. OR get a wrasse.

[Kijho]

Oh no Hope you can get it resolved, I don't know anything about that kind of pests, I hope it's not too challenging!

[holy carp]

Hey, I just saw the pics, you've got more than just red bugs, I see FW on one of the pieces from the brooklyn guy. It may just be the benign kinds, but given the state of the acro that is suffering, I am inclined tho think he had a lot of pests.

 

The treatment for red bugs is interceptor. The treatment for AEFW is bayer outside of the tank. OR get a wrasse.

 

This whole thing really makes me wonder if ReVive actually does anything other than smell...

 

I've had the harmless flatworms for a long time. I see them on the glass in the evening, but they are only a detritus eating type, according to amphipod, anyway... I hope that's what you saw - the kind with 2 little tails that are pretty symmetrical. When I first got them I looked into wrasses, but then I heard the 6-lines (which are supposedly good for eating those) are little beotches once they settle in...

 

I spent much of Saturday looking for Bayer Advanced Complete, but it turns out that nobody stocks it in the city. I'm going to check Lowes tonight to see if they can special order it. If I can get a hold of it, it may become my dip of choice.

 

I was also looking into Interceptor as well, and I guess that needs a prescription, so I'm going to try to figure that out. Also, I'd need to find a temporary home for my blue CBS, randalli shrimp, and emerald crab in the meantime. From what I've read, Interceptor is believed to work by disrupting the nervous systems of certain invertebrates (including crustaceans) and thereby killing them.

[Mariaface]

 

 

I was also looking into Interceptor as well, and I guess that needs a prescription, so I'm going to try to figure that out. Also, I'd need to find a temporary home for my blue CBS, randalli shrimp, and emerald crab in the meantime. From what I've read, Interceptor is believed to work by disrupting the nervous systems of certain invertebrates (including crustaceans) and thereby killing them.

 

 

I think I've read that if you let a vet know how/why it'll be used (you can include your dosage plan and reference other people's uses?), they'll write a prescription. Haven't done this myself, though.

[holy carp]

 

I think I've read that if you let a vet know how/why it'll be used (you can include your dosage plan and reference other people's uses?), they'll write a prescription. Haven't done this myself, though.

 

Good news - a friend of mine is a vet and can get me a few Interceptor pills this coming weekend. For a 15 gallon system, that should more than suffice.

 

Apparently red bugs have a short lifecycle and are will all be dead after 5 days without an acropora to live on, so they may be easier to treat than many other pests.

 

Given that I basically have 3 acro frags and 2 removable rocks with acros on them, I've outlined a few options:

 

1) Remove the 3 frags and 2 rocks. Dip in Bayer Advanced Complete Insect Killer (if I can get some) for 5 minutes. Rinse and put them in a bin with water from a water change, a heater, and a small circulation pump for 5 days. Then put them back in the tank.

• Pros: Don't need to treat the tank or remove crustaceans. Short treatment period. For only 5 days, the corals should be relatively unharmed even if I can't get optimal lighting or flow.
• Cons: Have to keep the corals alive in another system for 5 days, and those 2 rocks are the homes of all my fish and shrimp residents.

 

2) Remove the crustaceans (only 3 of them) and treat the tank with Interceptor. The recommendations I've read indicate 3 cycles of treatment over the course of 3 weeks. In the meantime, I'd have to keep the other critters in a bin with some rock and sand for 3 weeks.

• Pros: Corals can stay in their 'familiar environment' and fish can keep their houses
• Cons: Have to keep crustaceans alive in another system for 3 weeks, I will lose all beneficial pods in the system, there may be some undocumented stress or side effects on the fish or corals. The most complex option.

 

3) Remove acros, dip in Bayer, rinse and return to tank.

• Pros: Least disruptive and stressful 'treatment' for the tank residents. Doesn't require setup of a second system
• Cons: Probably not a very reliable treatment. Since there will likely be some free traveling red bugs, this would have to be repeated multiple times to catch them while they are on the corals. Presumably this may work if repeated every day or two for 1-2 weeks.

 

4) Buy a Dragonface Pipefish.

• Pros: Natural, and that fish is pretty cool looking. May be well suited to my relatively low-flow tank.
• Cons: Mixed results - likely will feed on but not eradicate red bugs - some accounts indicate that not all of these fish hunt red bugs. They can otherwise be challenging to keep as they only feed on small crustaceans/pods. Another fish in a small system.

 

5) Do nothing and see if the red bugs actually bother the corals

• Pros: Man, this is the easiest option by far!!!
• Cons: How the eff do I know if the corals are annoyed?

 

Any opinions / recommendations / options I've missed? I'd like to hear them.

[Tamberav]

 

This whole thing really makes me wonder if ReVive actually does anything other than smell...

 

I've had the harmless flatworms for a long time. I see them on the glass in the evening, but they are only a detritus eating type, according to amphipod, anyway... I hope that's what you saw - the kind with 2 little tails that are pretty symmetrical. When I first got them I looked into wrasses, but then I heard the 6-lines (which are supposedly good for eating those) are little beotches once they settle in...

 

I spent much of Saturday looking for Bayer Advanced Complete, but it turns out that nobody stocks it in the city. I'm going to check Lowes tonight to see if they can special order it. If I can get a hold of it, it may become my dip of choice.

 

I was also looking into Interceptor as well, and I guess that needs a prescription, so I'm going to try to figure that out. Also, I'd need to find a temporary home for my blue CBS, randalli shrimp, and emerald crab in the meantime. From what I've read, Interceptor is believed to work by disrupting the nervous systems of certain invertebrates (including crustaceans) and thereby killing them.

 

 

You can get Interceptor online without a prescription. You can get all sorts of pet meds without one They send them in from other countries.

 

I bought a single dose from here: http://www.petsofoz.net/search.php?search_query=Interceptor&x=0&y=0

 

 

Beautiful tank Holycarp, sorry about the bug troubles

[teenyreef]

Sorry to hear about the redbugs! I don't have any experience treating them so I'm looking forward to learning from your experience. Good luck!

[Mariaface]

I like options 1 and 3, but that's just me.

 

You'll notice stress in the color, polyp extension, feeding responses, etc.

[holy carp]

You can get Interceptor online without a prescription. You can get all sorts of pet meds without one They send them in from other countries.

 

I bought a single dose from here: http://www.petsofoz.net/search.php?search_query=Interceptor&x=0&y=0

 

 

Beautiful tank Holycarp, sorry about the bug troubles

 

Hmmm... Just noticed that site sells Interceptor Tasty Chews, which are different than the Interceptor Flavor Tabs that are usually described in treating red bugs. The dosage is probably the same, but dissolving a tasty chew in tank water might not work too well.

 

 

I like options 1 and 3, but that's just me.

 

You'll notice stress in the color, polyp extension, feeding responses, etc.

I think I'd like to try the Bayer dip first, but all my efforts to get this stuff so far have been fruitless in NYC. I was at Lowe's for an hour this evening trying to get them to special order it for me. They tried everything, but it sounds like it's not allowed to be shipped to New York. The same is true for Home Depot. They told me I might have to go to NJ to get it. What is happening to this great city!?!?!

 

True Value let me order it to be delivered to their closest store - we'll see if they let the order process...

[metrokat]

I can get some for you if all else fails.

Speaking for the Bayer, not interceptor. Although I do have a source for interceptor also.

[Tamberav]

 

Hmmm... Just noticed that site sells Interceptor Tasty Chews, which are different than the Interceptor Flavor Tabs that are usually described in treating red bugs. The dosage is probably the same, but dissolving a tasty chew in tank water might not work too well.

 

 

I think I'd like to try the Bayer dip first, but all my efforts to get this stuff so far have been fruitless in NYC. I was at Lowe's for an hour this evening trying to get them to special order it for me. They tried everything, but it sounds like it's not allowed to be shipped to New York. The same is true for Home Depot. They told me I might have to go to NJ to get it. What is happening to this great city!?!?!

 

True Value let me order it to be delivered to their closest store - we'll see if they let the order process...

 

Woops! You're right, seems the chewables are popular now. I buy all my cats meds w/o rx through AU. Having a hard time finding the Interceptor tabs though. Hm. I guess for awhile it was discontinued too.

[holy carp]

OK, so I've spent more or less all day researching treatments for red bugs including Interceptor, Bayer, and others.

 

Much of this isn't new, but to recap my findings:

 

Tamberav - The chewables can in fact be used... ReeferGil successfully did so in this YouTube video. Of course, there's still the issue of killing off all beneficial pods and crustaceans.

 

The guy, Whisperer, who first started the Bayer dipping in 2011 started a frenzy of tests by Reef Central users in a 29 page thread. Unfortunately, it's not the most scientific, in spite of the efforts of a few users trying to collect experiences in this excel sheet. At the end, it seems that the dosages successfully used varied between 2 and 160ml per liter of tank water (0.5ml/pint to 10ml per 1/2 cup). A few accounts of deep water acros reacting negatively were pretty much the only undesired side effect. The thread is further confused by the fact that there were at least 2 different Bayer Advanced products being used.

 

To boot, according to Bayer's site, the Complete Brand of products is "Not for sale, sale into, distribution, and/or use in Nassau, Suffolk, Kings and Queens counties of NY" So New York county isn't listed, but they still don't sell it here. The other product tested was Bayer Advance Home Pest control, so I may have to see if I can find that one. Kat - I might take you up on your offer if the hardware store doesn't come through...

 

Julian Sprung indicates that dipping can be a successful means of eradication of the red bugs since they remain localized on certain acropora, quoted in this other NR thread, as opposed to being througout the system. I'm not sure how much to believe the quote, given that the introduction of red bugs in my tank occurred after performing a 10-12 minute dip in that exact ReVive product according to the measured dosage in the instructions (5ml/pint).

 

So while my faith in ReVive isn't restored, I'm optimistic of the Bayer treatment - at least as a first course if I can get some. So planning option 3 listed above.

 

I have a couple Interceptor pills on the ready, but I will hold off on that since I don't have a quarantine set up, and dosing a 15 gallon system may be difficult since 1 pill is said to treat around 300 gallons. Actually, my vet friend who got me the pill said that splitting pills that aren't scored is difficult because the active ingredient may be in 1 granule somewhere in the pill, not spread evenly throughout. So the whole pill would need to be pulverized and divided. I'd probably need an experience coke head to help me split a pulverized pill into 20ths...

[metrokat]

I can see it now on craigslist, under "gig": experience cocaine user required for splitting a pill in 20 parts for my fish tank, expertly and perfectly.

[littlephish]

OK, time to get back to updating this thread...

 

Since this was for the bedroom, I wanted it to be small, clean, and quiet, with minimal obstruction from hoses and wires. I came across Scorched and lou99's similar tanks, but I wanted all the plumbing on one end.

 

Initial feedback wasn't entirely encouraging, but I decided to give it a go. It turned out pretty quiet at moderate flow, but when the flow was increased, the water level would elevate above the top of the drain and then it would slurp air. Also, the surface skimming was less effective than I hoped by having the drain at the top, so I made 2 adjustments.

1. I replaced the low profile screen on the 1/2" drain with an elbow facing upward to give it some surface skimming. A valve on this drain allows me to ensure it's silent, and a small piece of eggcrate prevents the fish from having an amusement park ride
2. I added a snorkel to the 1" drain. This allows it to breath air like a hole in the elbow, but can still go to full siphon if the level rises and has a cleaner look than a tube from the elbow coming over the glass. For this I used a low profile Lifegard Aquatics bulkhead screen, drilled a hole roughly in line with the top of the inner diameter of the pipe, added a 90° airline elbow, and just enough airline tubing attached to the inside to reach past the elbow on the exterior of the tank.

Snorkel Drain (small).jpg

 

I'm pleased to say the result is completely silent. The pump is an AquaMedic DC Runner 1.2, which has 8 DC speed settings. I usually keep it running around 6. Settings 5-8 all put out enough pressure to raise the water in the tank high enough to run through the skimming elbow on the 1/2" bulkhead. Settings 1-4 run only through the snorkeled 1" bulkhead.

 

Ok I just came across this, and with a similar setup now I am going to have to borrow this idea for the snorkel. When the pump kicks on/off, or if i run it with the programmed fluctuations, the noise for the drain resuming is insanely loud.

[holy carp]

 

Ok I just came across this, and with a similar setup now I am going to have to borrow this idea for the snorkel. When the pump kicks on/off, or if i run it with the programmed fluctuations, the noise for the drain resuming is insanely loud.

 

I'm very happy with the snorkel. It's completely silent, which was the most important thing since my tank is in the bedroom. I think it does reduce surface skimming slightly, since the drain would otherwise slurp air and presumably some surface water. That's why I'm also using an elbow in my small drain pipe to skim. I hope it works well for you - interested to see/hear your results.

[holy carp]

In other news...

 

I got a hold of some Bayer Complete, so I'll be doing some acro dipping this weekend to try to eliminate the red bugs.

 

I found another bubble algae on my torch coral. Easy to remove and treat, but annoying - I seem to find about 1 new bubble per week. Somehow those spores land and are patient. But I figure as long as I treat them before they get too mature, they shouldn't be spreading more spores. Lately I'm removing them by the individual bubble.

 

Also, I came home tonight to find one of my Acans chowing down on a dwarf cerith... What the what??? They eat snails? Crazy McCraycray!!!

I'm interested to see if it eats the whole shell.