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Need advice with sump design for AIO.


grusus

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Hi from sweden.

Straight to the questions.

For my first reef tank i will probably go with a costume AIO 34x27x15"(lxwxh) with sump compartment being 9" wide. And for the design this is what i have so far, all designed to fit the equipment below.
What do you think, do i need to change or add something to the sump?

Water depth in the skimmer section is 11" which is maxium recommendations for ES5. And this is the sump equipment i have in mind for a low biolad fowlr tank.

1)Sea Side Aquatics ES5 Skimmer.
2)Two Aqua Medic multi reactor S (gfo/carbon) I've also checked out other reactors like the one BRS have etc, but unfortunately they can't ship to my country.

3) Well i don't know which return pump would be the best choice for a setup like this, but a silent/effective modell is very important.

Regards.

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Sump design looks good. I assume it's on the 34" side?

 

As for the skimmer chamber depth, I assume you know that should you desire to, you could maintain a higher water depth and use a stand of some sort to raise the skimmer to an appropriate depth.

 

How are you feeding the media reactors? If it's a pump I'm trying to think whether the bubble traps after the skimmer will be robust enough.

 

The only other change I can think of is to reverse the baffle order after the refugium. Instead of up, down, up, make it down, up, down. By having the first baffle be up a small amount I think it risks blockage of algae, rocks or sand if you choose to have sand.

 

Finally, by way of suggestion you might want to make your baffles opaque enough that light spill from the refugium chamber doesn't promote too much algae growth.

 

Good luck looks like an awesome footprint to work with.

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You're right it's on the 34" side.

Yes i knew that about the skimmer chamber. My thought was to use the max depth and not over 11", mostly to minimize the view of a skimmer pointing up from the sump and give it a more clean look. I would hopfully at most have raise the skimmer so it sits in 9.5"( minimum for ES5)
That is however not the important thing here as more water wolume in a tank is better, as you refer to i think.

The reactors have bottom built in pumps. It's a small reactor actually, only 2.3x1.9x11.8" but also available in medium. 3.1x2.3x16.5"

http://www.shop-meeresaquaristik.de/images/product_images/popup_images/15033_0.jpg

What do you mean with roburst enought? if the glass baffles can hold the reactor weight?
The tank will be built in 10mm glass, baffles 8-10mm glass, and the tank/sump devider also 10mm glass with white or black acrylic attached to it. So the only acrylic attached to glass is the big front piece and two pieces in the refuge to promote algea growt from spreading, just like you suggested which i had thought about that too.

Just to be sure, do you mean i should place the baffles like this instead?

Thank you for all the help!


Btw. Do i even need a baffle between the skimmer and reactor chamber?

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For sure my thoughts on raising the skimmer on a stand is to maximize water volume in the sump - particularly the return chamber. Though the other chambers can benefit from a maximized water volume as well.

 

That said aesthetics are important too! It's a valid point if you don't want the skimmer sticking up too far.

 

My wording was off for the baffles - effective would be a better word... Having the media reactors in the same chamber as the skimmer may not be a bad idea, but it depends on how many bubbles your skimmer produces. Still it's not something I've seen much. If the reactor pumps suck in bubbles they'll be noisy and probably make the reactor less efficient than it should be. So maybe get rid of the second baffle from the skimmer? By having that second baffle it's almost directing the bubbles down to the bottom where the media reactor pumps would be. If you left that off then maybe any bubbles coming off the skimmer would stay at the top? You would still have the other set of baffles before they got to the return pump.

 

Anyways, the second design you posted is what I was thinking. IMO that way works a bit better for keeping crap out of the return pump chamber.

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For sure my thoughts on raising the skimmer on a stand is to maximize water volume in the sump - particularly the return chamber. Though the other chambers can benefit from a maximized water volume as well.

 

I got most of the sump design from gmacreef.com. I wanted a skimmer chamber with constant water depth to prevent problemes and not have to tune the skimmer all day long. And if i understand right that will be achieved with water falling down from skimmer chamber to the next? I must admit i really dont get how different sump designs works. But yeah, i chose a more shallow sump for aesthetics aswell, Although when you think about it, a nice tank will take all the attention and i will probably dont care about the skimmer after a few months.

 

I get what you're saying and i have since yesterday removed that baffle from the design. I actually got that suggestion yesterday, but also that i could keep both skimmer and reactors in the same chamber to make cleaning easier. But like you said with reactor maybe sucking up bubbles, then to use only one chamber could become an even bigger probleme if the skimmer produces to much. Hm, it's hard to know untill one seen the skimmer in action.

 

I've also consider to place reactors in the return chamber like i seen many reefers do. What do you think about that?

 

 

Anyways, the second design you posted is what I was thinking. IMO that way works a bit better for keeping crap out of the return pump chamber.

 

Yes it makes sense.

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Hmm, I'd never heard of gmacreef before - some cool stuff though.

 

When it comes to sump design and setup in general I think it's important to take your time to mull over all the possibilities.

 

With that in mind I've thought about your AIO and I think I might have a decent design. The goals here are to maximize the space for the return chamber and for the refugium while leaving plenty of room for the skimmer. To do this the obvious way is to get rid of the extra baffles. So this design only has 4 baffles, with 1 of them actually doubling as a divider. The top image is a "top down" view and the bottom image is from the side view. The green is skimmer, orange is the reactors, and blue the return pump. The placement is approximate at best and you could easily reduce the size of the refugium to make more space for the return chamber if you wanted to.

 

grusus1_zpsyppgpt9a.jpg

 

I think this design is effective because 1) having microbubbles in the refugium isn't really a big deal 2) They will likely dissipate by the time the water reaches the other side of the refugium 3) The reactor pumps are away from the bubbles produced by the skimmer and if they produce any bubbles of their own they won't have such a direct path into the return pump.

 

 

Finally, regarding your method of construction, I would make everything out of acrylic... That way you could glue the acrylic pieces together and essentially have a "drop in" AIO. All you would need to do is make sure that you cut the acrylic a little shorter than you need (don't cut the acrylic so it's an exact tight fit) and then silicone it in place.

 

Using glass as the false wall would be fine, but I think you would have difficulty trying to sandwich a piece of acrylic to it. Either you would see this ugly bead of silicone all around or you would get water between them and that would look bad as well. Same thing with the baffles, why sandwich materials and make this super thick baffle when really all you need is 1/4" acrylic. Because the water level will be similar on each side of the display and sump area you don't need as much strength as you might think. For that reason I believe you will be fine with using just acrylic.

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For a beginner i think he explained very well. Even someone like me understood a thing or two.

 

 

When it comes to sump design and setup in general I think it's important to take your time to mull over all the possibilities.

 

I agree t's important to make it right the first time, you only have one shot so to speak.

 

Thanks for taking your time btw, your design look much cleaner.

 

Do you mean the whole tank setup or just using acrylic for the sump in one piece? It will be alot more exspensive to build the whole thing in acrylic and i kinda have a decided budget. Still talking alot of money but even more so with a big acrylic tank.

I have though also thought about that big front piece.

 

This is getting interresting.

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So I just meant to build the sump part in acrylic. Do the tank in glass for sure.

 

I dd a similar thing with my sump, where I made the acrylic assembly out of the water and then just set it in place and used silicone to stick it there and seal it.

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Oh I see. I know this is how many smaller aio are built and just wanted to make sure i got the sump stabile you know. Good to know acrylic will be enought.

 

I appreciate your help ajmckay! This really made my sump choice so much easier.

 

Never mind the last design, I changed my mind right away. I can just add a few inch to the tank width and keep the big sump .

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I don't know if it'll help,but my 40 gallon breeder is a diy aio,it's simpler than yours in design (yours is really nicely done btw) but it may help somehow,it's made from acrylic(the false wall and baffle) and standard aquarium silicone.

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Everything is of help.

I could though not see any pics in your thread. It would have been nice to see that tank.

Hmmm I just put a bunch up today,and a video also,did you check the last few pages?
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  • 4 weeks later...

After much reading about toxins and people with allergic reactions from some corals, i've decided to scrap my reef plans for good.

I already have some strange allergies like some roach species. Not common but i have heard of a few people with reactions during my terrarium years, tho never as strong as i had which even made me more scared for corals and possible reactions from just looking at them..

 

The good news hovewer. I reacently found out there are some cool brackish and fresh gobies that i can get my hands on.

Even if i start with a fowlr salt tank i know i would want to advance to corals one day, and as gobies are the fish i find most interresting this is a better and of course a cheaper choice.

So instead this project have changed to a shallow fish only stream tank and the building will start in a few weeks.

Thanks to my savings i have a good budget for a costume tank, equipment and fun gadgets like overkill light fixture etc.

 

Again, thanks for the help guys eventhough it turned out to be a uneccessary thread.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Never thought this would happen for real, but i'm finally starting this salt water tank. Actually been ordering some equipment like skimmer(coral box DC300) and next step is to decide what return pump to use. I was about to beegin the fresh but all i could think about was salt fishes and their colours.. And with a few store contacts everything is now solved.

 

I did change tank demensions and sump a little too a more simple design that i hope will work as well. Instead of the whole back being a sump i placed it on the short side and added a few inches to tank lenght. For now i'll go with a media rack instead of the reactors, and will i need i can just add reactors later on. There is no need to make it more complicated than it really needs to be.

 

I'm going for 4-6x turn over and i have a few pumps to decide between. Tunze silence 1073.020, Sicce 2.0 and Jebao DC1200.

Both Tunze and sicce have more power for desired turn over with only 11" in head hight it need to pump, and I wonder if you guys know how much you actually can regulate these two?

 

Regards.

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  • 7 months later...

So I'm about to start this tank. I almost had it up and running last year, then I had a operation that cost me a bit and I messed up by buying led for 550$, the epoxy/foam aqua scape got exspensive, and also bought some wrong stuff that i could not return. Well lesson learned..

Some of the equipment, tank, rock and neccessary things I saved lucky enought, but I had to sell the exspensive stuff to get back on my feet.

Foto0464_zps546d9d30.jpg

This was the first tank I built(50g

 

I have now had the glass cut. New dimensions. 26x26x13" with sump being 7.8" wide. So hopfully I will be able to silicone it together before next week. I had the acrylic overflow wall costume made this time as it turned out to be almost the same price. Sump on the back for the new tank.

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Old aquascape.

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New aquascape(not anymore)

 

Equipment list.

1) Genio Skim Eco 100DC rated for 52g http://www.aquariatech.eu/genio-skim-eco-100dc/191-0
2) Blau reef motion dc return pump.
3) 1-2 Blau wave motion streamer. 1050 g/h
5) Hydor Theo heater
4) 2 Blau nano led's. C
5) DIY ATO gravity feed.

 

As for salt I will use Aquaforest reef salt.

20000305_171424_zps1474e0e2.jpg
First two of my 8-9 orders arrived today. Some really nice rock, and the corner clamps is going to make the new tank assembly so much easier.


Well that's my update for now!

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20000307_062804_zps45931447.jpg

 

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I've been playing around with the scape And this is it. I might however place the rock that binds the two islands togethet more above the sand , or just change to a thinner rock piece. But other than that i'm happy with the outcome!

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I got the glass today and just finnished silicone the tank together. I will post pictures in a few days after it's cleaned up.

 

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And overflow wall is here as well.

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This is the design I have in mind. Skimmer, media rack, refugium and return. The green piece is a small filterfloss holder.

Any thoughts before I glue it together?

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Looks good to me... It's a little out of the ordinary to have water flow up through your media area, but I can't think of any reason why it can't be done like that. Actually it may be beneficial if it can somehow keep the media moving better inside the bags - though honestly it probably wont because you would need quite a bit of water velocity for that.

 

Some thoughts - try to maximize the water volume in the rear chambers. In other words the tank is 13" tall, say 12.5" water level. Put the first blue baffle at 10" or so. If the skimmer requires 7" just put it on a 3" tall stand. Then make the second blue baffle 8-9".

 

Note I'm using inches because that's what you're using...

 

Also the genio skimmer looks pretty cool - can't say I've ever seen anything by them before.

 

Finally, your old rock scape is mega bad ass... Please post some nice high resolution pictures of your old tank when you get a moment. I'm sure you'll have a great new scape - but seriously I want to go get some shelf rock so I can make that now.

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I was hhopinng you would join the thread again!

 

So far i've only attached first and second baffle as I feelt a little unsure about a refugiium chamber.
First bllue baffle is unfortunately only 8.6", but I have more acrylic if I need to raise the skimmer chamber later.

 

Genio systteme is not a common brand. The only things I know about genio skimmers is whhat I've heard from that store in the link. So hopfully they are right that these are "fantastic" skimmers from Austria. Time will tell I quess.

 

Not the same modell. However, the small one they say is awesome as well and also have that tturbine impeller.

Thanks man. I agree that it was kinda bad ass if I may say so myself. Here you have more old pics. Not high resolution though.

AIO3_zps09e0ed11.jpg

 

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I'm a messy amateur tank builder. But after it's cleaned up I think it will llook great.

Same as last tank, I used silicone injection method and 1,5mm silicone thickness between the joints. Glass is 8mm and the bead is 15mm wide, a little overkill but still looks good.

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Now I understand. You confused me there for a while yesterday.

 

 

Last tank pics for a while.

 

 

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I'm glad the base build is over, and I do not want to build another tank again.

 

Btw. I did a setting change on photobucket that messed things up, hence the editing.

 

"Actually it may be beneficial if it can somehow keep the media moving better inside the bags - though honestly it probably wont because you would need quite a bit of water velocity for that."

 

I just saw this you wrote earlier.

I made this design to save some space, but perhaps it would have been better to place media rack after the refugium. Well to late to change.

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