29g Struggling Reef

[vlangel]

My daughter's daycare did some underwater art!! Isn't it awesome?!? I bet of all the parents, I liked it the most! Of course, the yellow fish is the best, cus she made that one.

 

IMG_20150610_080810-01-01 by xiusun, on Flickr

Sorry I am only now seeing the art work and yes it is definitely awesome!

[Orangutran]

Anyone have problems with TOO many pods in their display? More specifically, munnid isopods! They are supposedly the "good" type:

 

http://www.seahorse.org/library/TESTING/hitch/isopod.shtml

 

But when you have too many, they start to irritate corals by crawling on them day and night. My new zoa frag wouldn't open when the pods were on them. And my branching monti frag would not extend its polyps, now I moved the frag to a different rock that is "patrolled" by my clowns, so way less pods there. Hopefully it recovers. Do polyps grow back?

 

Thinking of a goby of some sort, to keep them in check. Not a mandarin, maybe a green clown goby? Open to suggestions and tips.

[vlangel]

Orangutran, since your tank has the sump in the basement, I am curious how high your return actually is? I am kind of surprised that the mag 9.5 pump has enough muscle after pumping up that high, (I am guessing it is at least 10 ft of head loss)? Do you just have 1 return or does it branch off into more?

 

The reason for my questions is I am considering sumping my seahorse tank in the basement as well. There are a lot of advantages for a seahorse tank, cooler temperature and chiller noise topping the list. I need some muscle from my return as seahorse tanks should have a minimum of 10 Xs the turnover so my oversized skimmer is maximized. Also seahorses contrary to popular belief like high flow in some areas of their tanks. I have 2 returns that split after the check valve, 1 goes thru the chiller and the other thru the UV sterilizer. Can you offer any helpful advise? I am thinking of upgrading the 10g sump to a 20L and the mag 9.5 to a pond master 2400 gph return pump. My head loss height is more like 14 feet. What do you think?

[Orangutran]

Hey Dawn, you'd be even more surprised that I am using a mag 7, not 9.5. My head loss is 9 ft so I took a chance with the mag 7 and it's just right. I'm guessing it's around 120-150 gph going thru the sump (4-5x). Not nearly as high as 10x you require for your seahorse tank. I'm running 1 return only, and my regret is not drilling the hole in the floor big enough to accommodate a bigger return line. You probably know it already, but try to keep your return line as big as possible to reduce head loss, before you reduce it to your return (loc line).

 

Another trick I did was place my sump (20L) as high as possible in the basement, so it's about chest level. Not sure if you have a stand or shelf for the sump yet, but I JUST discovered this shelf today (fits a 40B)…. http://www.solidgoldfish.com/2014/12/the-perfect-rack-for-40-gallon-tanks.html (link to Lowes on that site, there's a shorter version that is 60" tall too)

 

Definitely do the basement sump if it's an option. Like you said, the advantages of cooling and reduced noise is worth it. I don't know how hot it gets where you are, but if your basement is cool enough your chiller won't be used as often either. My tank never went over 79F during the summer, no AC. The only con I can think of is the pondmaster putting extra heat into your system, and increased electricity use.

 

Might be worth investing in a DC pump for this. I had the Deepwater Aquatics BLDC pump saved in my wish list on amazon, and one day I got an email saying the price dropped by 60% or something, it must have been a mistake, but I should have jumped at the opportunity, because it went back up right afterwards.

 

Oh yeah, maintenance and water changes are so easy! I can make a mess and not worry about water damage in the basement!

 

Orangutran, since your tank has the sump in the basement, I am curious how high your return actually is? I am kind of surprised that the mag 9.5 pump has enough muscle after pumping up that high, (I am guessing it is at least 10 ft of head loss)? Do you just have 1 return or does it branch off into more?

The reason for my questions is I am considering sumping my seahorse tank in the basement as well. There are a lot of advantages for a seahorse tank, cooler temperature and chiller noise topping the list. I need some muscle from my return as seahorse tanks should have a minimum of 10 Xs the turnover so my oversized skimmer is maximized. Also seahorses contrary to popular belief like high flow in some areas of their tanks. I have 2 returns that split after the check valve, 1 goes thru the chiller and the other thru the UV sterilizer. Can you offer any helpful advise? I am thinking of upgrading the 10g sump to a 20L and the mag 9.5 to a pond master 2400 gph return pump. My head loss height is more like 14 feet. What do you think?

[vlangel]

Hey Dawn, you'd be even more surprised that I am using a mag 7, not 9.5. My head loss is 9 ft so I took a chance with the mag 7 and it's just right. I'm guessing it's around 120-150 gph going thru the sump (4-5x). Not nearly as high as 10x you require for your seahorse tank. I'm running 1 return only, and my regret is not drilling the hole in the floor big enough to accommodate a bigger return line. You probably know it already, but try to keep your return line as big as possible to reduce head loss, before you reduce it to your return (loc line).

 

Another trick I did was place my sump (20L) as high as possible in the basement, so it's about chest level. Not sure if you have a stand or shelf for the sump yet, but I JUST discovered this shelf today (fits a 40B)…. http://www.solidgoldfish.com/2014/12/the-perfect-rack-for-40-gallon-tanks.html (link to Lowes on that site, there's a shorter version that is 60" tall too)

 

Definitely do the basement sump if it's an option. Like you said, the advantages of cooling and reduced noise is worth it. I don't know how hot it gets where you are, but if your basement is cool enough your chiller won't be used as often either. My tank never went over 79F during the summer, no AC. The only con I can think of is the pondmaster putting extra heat into your system, and increased electricity use.

 

Might be worth investing in a DC pump for this. I had the Deepwater Aquatics BLDC pump saved in my wish list on amazon, and one day I got an email saying the price dropped by 60% or something, it must have been a mistake, but I should have jumped at the opportunity, because it went back up right afterwards.

 

Oh yeah, maintenance and water changes are so easy! I can make a mess and not worry about water damage in the basement!

 

Thank you very much for your response. That is quite helpful. Much of what you have done is how I envisioned setting mine up. Like building a stand for the 20L to shorten the head loss.

 

I am leaning toward a magdrive or pond master pump because of their durability. I maintenanced tanks for a lfs for 5 years and a lot of the aquarium pumps crap out and quit in 2 years. Then the input and output was usually reconfigured so all the plumbing had to be changed and it was a pain. I know the pond pumps run hot and inefficient in comparison but they run forever and that is a major plus for me.

 

How do you think the chiller should be plumbed in? It's input and output are for 5/8th or 3/4 line. Like you said I will want as big a line as possible going up to the tank. Do I use a separate small pump in the sump to power the chiller or do I split the line out of the return pump like I am doing now? The chiller slows the flow down a lot. It is definitely my slower return now.

[Elizabeth94]

I like the basement sump idea. When I had my 29 drilled I begged my parents to let me have the sump in the basement. They didn't like the idea of drilling holes in the hardwoods. Cant say I blame them hehe.

 

In the end I got stuck with a 10gal sump, which was enough to hide equipment. Id love pics of the sump!

[Orangutran]

Thank you very much for your response. That is quite helpful. Much of what you have done is how I envisioned setting mine up. Like building a stand for the 20L to shorten the head loss.

 

I am leaning toward a magdrive or pond master pump because of their durability. I maintenanced tanks for a lfs for 5 years and a lot of the aquarium pumps crap out and quit in 2 years. Then the input and output was usually reconfigured so all the plumbing had to be changed and it was a pain. I know the pond pumps run hot and inefficient in comparison but they run forever and that is a major plus for me.

 

How do you think the chiller should be plumbed in? It's input and output are for 5/8th or 3/4 line. Like you said I will want as big a line as possible going up to the tank. Do I use a separate small pump in the sump to power the chiller or do I split the line out of the return pump like I am doing now? The chiller slows the flow down a lot. It is definitely my slower return now.

 

Glad I can help! Where I live, they keep increasing the cost of electricity due to poor management /decisions by the electricity company and government! I just pay the electricity automatically and try not to look at the amount. lol

 

I'm not sure if I understand your set up correctly, but do you currently have two returns in your display? 1 from the UV, and 1 from the chiller? Or does the chiller output go back into the sump? ….I want to say have one big line go up thru your floor to your tank, and then split it off behind your tank. From what I've learned, the water friction in the 2 smaller lines will reduce more flow.

 

You can still tee off your return pump for the chiller in the basement, and use a ball valve to control the flow as well? Not sure how much flow the chiller requires… no experience in that.

 

 

I like the basement sump idea. When I had my 29 drilled I begged my parents to let me have the sump in the basement. They didn't like the idea of drilling holes in the hardwoods. Cant say I blame them hehe.

 

In the end I got stuck with a 10gal sump, which was enough to hide equipment. Id love pics of the sump!

 

Yeah, I didn't tell my wife and just drilled the holes when she wasn't home. Lucky it's in the built-in cabinets, so it's not visible either. Best decision I made!! I see that your 29 is retired, what happened to it?

 

Here's a sump pic… it's not pretty, with a few design flaws, but no one can see it.

 

Sump by xiusun, on Flickr

[vlangel]

Glad I can help! Where I live, they keep increasing the cost of electricity due to poor management /decisions by the electricity company and government! I just pay the electricity automatically and try not to look at the amount. lol

 

I'm not sure if I understand your set up correctly, but do you currently have two returns in your display? 1 from the UV, and 1 from the chiller? Or does the chiller output go back into the sump? ….I want to say have one big line go up thru your floor to your tank, and then split it off behind your tank. From what I've learned, the water friction in the 2 smaller lines will reduce more flow.

 

You can still tee off your return pump for the chiller in the basement, and use a ball valve to control the flow as well? Not sure how much flow the chiller requires… no experience in that.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I didn't tell my wife and just drilled the holes when she wasn't home. Lucky it's in the built-in cabinets, so it's not visible either. Best decision I made!! I see that your 29 is retired, what happened to it?

 

Here's a sump pic… it's not pretty, with a few design flaws, but no one can see it.

 

Sump by xiusun, on Flickr

The pic of your sump was helpful to me as well so I also appreciate you posting it! Yes, currently I have 2 returns that Y off just above my mag 9.5, one goes thru the chiller and the other thru the UV. My current sump is only 10g so with my honkin' skimmer (SCA 302) and the 9.5 mag drive there was no room for even a small pump to get water to the chiller. Also I prefer the chiller's water to go to the display tank because the chiller has an internal thermostat and if the sump water was cooled by the chiller the display tank could potentially be somewhat warmer.

Let's assume I don't include the UV for now. You are saying I could have 1 big line out of the pump and off that line have a Y where a smaller line with a ball valve goes to the chiller but the output from the chiller goes back into the big line? or does it go up to the tank as its own return? The chiller needs about 100 gph minimum but of course if it is going up to the display tank there is the head loss thing again.

I guess the other scenerio is I have a smaller pump in/or next to the drain chamber of the sump and run water to the chiller and the output from the chiller goes directly into the return chamber of the sump to be pumped up with 1 big line to the display where behind the tank it Ys off into multiple loc line returns in the display. Maybe that is the best way to maximize my flow in the display and with a 20L sump I should have plenty of room for an added rio pump for the chiller. Rios are cheap and are pretty good.

[Orangutran]

I guess the other scenerio is I have a smaller pump in/or next to the drain chamber of the sump and run water to the chiller and the output from the chiller goes directly into the return chamber of the sump to be pumped up with 1 big line to the display where behind the tank it Ys off into multiple loc line returns in the display. Maybe that is the best way to maximize my flow in the display and with a 20L sump I should have plenty of room for an added rio pump for the chiller. Rios are cheap and are pretty good.

 

^^^I think this will give you the most control if you require a certain amount of flow in the return, and it's simpler to plumb.

Separate chiller pump will give you more control in that regard as well, especially with a ball valve.

 

The other options have too many variables. My idea with the tee in the return would have the chiller output back into the sump return chamber, but that would make your chiller suck in cold water (colder than the display).

 

This is quite exciting! I want to see your plan in action!! Btw, don't follow my sump chamber/baffle sizes, I would do it differently if I can do it over again. lol

[Elizabeth94]

Wow, you have a lot more room in that sump than my ten gallon (which is obvious, but its crazy to see that big skimmer in there).

 

I still have my 29gal shell but sold off a lot of equipment including my radion (which I regret like crazy). I took it down after bryopsis decided to hitchhike on a frag plug. It took over all my corals and I just gave up. I would have beaten it if I just stuck to it.

 

I hope you don't have to go down that road, but if it does happen just stick to it. Now I have a Fusion 10 that is almost ready for water.

 

 

Yeah, I didn't tell my wife and just drilled the holes when she wasn't home. Lucky it's in the built-in cabinets, so it's not visible either. Best decision I made!! I see that your 29 is retired, what happened to it?

 

Sump by xiusun, on Flickr

[vlangel]

^^^I think this will give you the most control if you require a certain amount of flow in the return, and it's simpler to plumb.

Separate chiller pump will give you more control in that regard as well, especially with a ball valve.

 

The other options have too many variables. My idea with the tee in the return would have the chiller output back into the sump return chamber, but that would make your chiller suck in cold water (colder than the display).

 

This is quite exciting! I want to see your plan in action!! Btw, don't follow my sump chamber/baffle sizes, I would do it differently if I can do it over again. lol

I agree 100%. That control is nice to have and I think that is the way I will go.

[Orangutran]

Wow, you have a lot more room in that sump than my ten gallon (which is obvious, but its crazy to see that big skimmer in there).

 

I still have my 29gal shell but sold off a lot of equipment including my radion (which I regret like crazy). I took it down after bryopsis decided to hitchhike on a frag plug. It took over all my corals and I just gave up. I would have beaten it if I just stuck to it.

 

I hope you don't have to go down that road, but if it does happen just stick to it. Now I have a Fusion 10 that is almost ready for water.

 

I was advised to get an even bigger sump since I had the space, bit I think the 20L does the job... Fits everything I need.

 

Sorry about your bryopsis... We all learn. I fought GHA in my old tank until it finally crashed. Now I run gfo in fear of phosphates. Although I need to be more vigilant in dipping my frags... Found a zoa eating nudi on a frag in my tank.

 

Not the radion!!!! Don't worry there will be newer and better!

 

Do you got a build thread?

[Orangutran]

I agree 100%. That control is nice to have and I think that is the way I will go.

It'll be awesome!! Join the basement sump club! Lol

[vlangel]

It'll be awesome!! Join the basement sump club! Lol

Thanks, i will. I am curious, you said that you wished that you had gone with a bigger line for your return, what size did you choose and what size do you wished you had chosen?

[Elizabeth94]

Not the radion!!!! Don't worry there will be newer and better!

 

Do you got a build thread?

 

Selling the radion was the worst mistake I made. Guy got a good deal too, for $300.

 

I don't have build thread since I started it years ago.. It may be on a different forum but I remember the other forum was awful, so I stopped posting it there and didn't create another thread. I still have early pictures of it, but none of if before I took it down.

 

Algea really sucks.. it can be fixed but sometimes it gets so bad people loose hope and just let their tank go. Anyways, this set up you are building has deff hit a soft spot in me, ill be following your progress.

[Orangutran]

Thanks, i will. I am curious, you said that you wished that you had gone with a bigger line for your return, what size did you choose and what size do you wished you had chosen?

 

Oh, the mag 7 has a 3/4 outlet, so I should have maintained the 3/4" line as far as possible, or even go up to an 1" (in theory it's supposed to be better, I just don't understand the water friction thing). But a 1" hole in my floor can only accommodate a 5/8" line, because 3/4" ID is 1" OD which is too snug to fit the hole, so I was stuck with 5/8" tubing.

 

(and I didn't wanna widen the hole because it was such a PITA to drill the original holes! I had to drill thru at least 4" of hard wood laden with nails. Hopefully your house is not as bad)

[vlangel]

Oh, the mag 7 has a 3/4 outlet, so I should have maintained the 3/4" line as far as possible, or even go up to an 1" (in theory it's supposed to be better, I just don't understand the water friction thing). But a 1" hole in my floor can only accommodate a 5/8" line, because 3/4" ID is 1" OD which is too snug to fit the hole, so I was stuck with 5/8" tubing.

 

(and I didn't wanna widen the hole because it was such a PITA to drill the original holes! I had to drill thru at least 4" of hard wood laden with nails. Hopefully your house is not as bad)

Yes, I hope to go with 3/4th" ID or 1".

I don't know how difficult our floor will be to drill.

I thought my return line would be straight up but now I am not sure if it will need just a slight incline. I hope they have plumbing in such a wide angle. If not I wonder if I could plumb loc-line in to give me just a little room to get a slight angle?

[Orangutran]

Yes, I hope to go with 3/4th" ID or 1".

I don't know how difficult our floor will be to drill.

I thought my return line would be straight up but now I am not sure if it will need just a slight incline. I hope they have plumbing in such a wide angle. If not I wonder if I could plumb loc-line in to give me just a little room to get a slight angle?

 

The way my house was built, it ain't getting blown over by the big bad wolf! Hopefully your floors don't have 7 layers of plywood.

 

Not sure if you can plumb loc-line or even trust it? Why not use flexible PVC or vinyl tubing?

[Orangutran]

 

Selling the radion was the worst mistake I made. Guy got a good deal too, for $300.

 

I don't have build thread since I started it years ago.. It may be on a different forum but I remember the other forum was awful, so I stopped posting it there and didn't create another thread. I still have early pictures of it, but none of if before I took it down.

 

Algea really sucks.. it can be fixed but sometimes it gets so bad people loose hope and just let their tank go. Anyways, this set up you are building has deff hit a soft spot in me, ill be following your progress.

 

If selling the radion was the worst mistake you made, just means that you have made a lot of good life decisions to this point. LOL But yeah, $300 is a steal. Hopefully you believe in karma.

 

Oh, you should get a new build thread for your IM then. I was never a "build thread" kinda person, but it helps me log things in case things go south, I have something positive to look back on. lol

[vlangel]

The way my house was built, it ain't getting blown over by the big bad wolf! Hopefully your floors don't have 7 layers of plywood.

 

Not sure if you can plumb loc-line or even trust it? Why not use flexible PVC or vinyl tubing?

 

I was not going to use loc-line the whole way, just use 6" or so instead of multiple elbows to move the line over. I thought that would be less impacting on the flow.

[Orangutran]

I was not going to use loc-line the whole way, just use 6" or so instead of multiple elbows to move the line over. I thought that would be less impacting on the flow.

Loc-line the whole way would be hilarious, and expensive! But I never knew they were water tight??

[vlangel]

Loc-line the whole way would be hilarious, and expensive! But I never knew they were water tight??

I am not sure if it's water tight or if I would trust it either. That's is what I was wondering about. You just never know if someone has heard of someone doing it successfully, or not! I guess I will try and come up with other solutions. I did check out the plumbing supplies at Lowe's for ideas.

[Elizabeth94]

How is your anemone doing? Curious to see how it does in a young tank. I never kept an anemone yet because I am a scaredy cat, I always think it would go on a coral burning rampage. Hoping to have a rock flower in my fusion 10 when It's cycled.

[Orangutran]

I am not sure if it's water tight or if I would trust it either. That's is what I was wondering about. You just never know if someone has heard of someone doing it successfully, or not! I guess I will try and come up with other solutions. I did check out the plumbing supplies at Lowe's for ideas.

Flex PVC or vinyl tubing?

 

How is your anemone doing? Curious to see how it does in a young tank. I never kept an anemone yet because I am a scaredy cat, I always think it would go on a coral burning rampage. Hoping to have a rock flower in my fusion 10 when It's cycled.

Anemone is doing great! Unfortunately clowns are not into it… I didn't think I would get a nem so soon either, but I saw it on a local forum for cheap ($30) and it came on a rock too, so it was too good to pass up! One of my fears was getting one that wandered, but with the rock, I assume it was happy wedged in there, and so far so good!

 

I really want mini maxis or RFAs too…. but hard to find up here. And sexy shrimps to go with them!

[vlangel]

Flex PVC or vinyl tubing?

 

 

 

Funny you should suggest that because after I went to Lowes and came out very discouraged (because they have so little) I went online and saw all that. The Ultra flex PVC looks really good in that others who use it say it won't crimp or crush. I can do simple gluing for plumbing which is all I should have. Also I saw the green flex tubing (forget what it's called) and supposedly it doesn't crimp. Actually my run should be so straight that it should not crimp or crush anyway. What did you use?