29g Struggling Reef

[Orangutran]

Well that was fortuitous! I also browse R2R and even have a build thread but its in the seahorse/pipefish topic. I rarely look at any other topics because I am on 5 forums(4 of them I only look under seahorses however)so I could spend my whole day doing nothing else, LOL.

 

Yeah, when I'm not busy at work, I can spend hours on here too. I browse other forums sometimes, but only ever post here and a local forum. I get intimidated by the big tank forums, I feel like they don't take nano tank owners seriously.

 

Starting at week 29 they discuss alk, CA and mag. Then in the following weeks they get more detailed about ways to administer dosing like kalkwasser, 2-part and so on. Check it out.

 

 

Thanks, will check it out. That Ryan guy from BRS, talks sooooo fast (I don't know how he breathes!) I have to rewind a lot! LOL

 

And to think… when I started my tank I wanted to keep it simple… yeah right!

[jimbonds]

What test kits did you use for nitrate (NO3) and phosphate (PO4)? Many kits are not high resolution, meaning they don't do well at the low range. For example, the Red Sea NO3 kit is 0-250ppm but the accuracy is only 2ppm. So what shows up as 0ppm could actually be 1ppm. The same is true of most PO4 kits. Hanna makes an ultra low resolution PO4 kit for people who run low nutrient systems and need to be able to make sure they aren't stripping the water. The reason I mention this is unless you are using ultra low resolution kits then measurements of 0ppm not necessarily represent a problem.

 

For a better understanding of the ionic balance between alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium, read this article by Randy Holmes-Farley. He's an analytic chemist who is an avid aquarist and he does a good job of breaking it all down. In a nutshell, you've probably heard of calcium carbonate. Alkalinity is just a measure of bicarbonate and carbonate ions dissolved in solution (salt water). So if you were to add any carbonate and calcium to fresh water, the positively and negatively charged ions would immediately link up and you'd get calcium carbonate molecules (the stuff that coral skeletons are made of) and it would precipitate out of solution (snow storm that eventually settled at the bottom). A complex interaction of ions in salt water allows higher concentrations of these ions to exist dissolved into solution. The presence of magnesium facilitates this.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/10/chemistry

 

Aside from low Mg, your params look pretty good which is substantiated by the good growth you are seeing. Coloration issues could be due to a lack of trace elements such as iodine, strontium, etc. These could be low due to fewer water changes to replenish elements, fast coral growth, or salt that is low in these elements. This article explains some about the various trace elements found in sea water and what they do for aquatic life. It also has a table for recommended and sea water parameters that I consider my bible.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

[Orangutran]

What test kits did you use for nitrate (NO3) and phosphate (PO4)? Many kits are not high resolution, meaning they don't do well at the low range. For example, the Red Sea NO3 kit is 0-250ppm but the accuracy is only 2ppm. So what shows up as 0ppm could actually be 1ppm. The same is true of most PO4 kits. Hanna makes an ultra low resolution PO4 kit for people who run low nutrient systems and need to be able to make sure they aren't stripping the water. The reason I mention this is unless you are using ultra low resolution kits then measurements of 0ppm not necessarily represent a problem.

 

For a better understanding of the ionic balance between alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium, read this article by Randy Holmes-Farley. He's an analytic chemist who is an avid aquarist and he does a good job of breaking it all down. In a nutshell, you've probably heard of calcium carbonate. Alkalinity is just a measure of bicarbonate and carbonate ions dissolved in solution (salt water). So if you were to add any carbonate and calcium to fresh water, the positively and negatively charged ions would immediately link up and you'd get calcium carbonate molecules (the stuff that coral skeletons are made of) and it would precipitate out of solution (snow storm that eventually settled at the bottom). A complex interaction of ions in salt water allows higher concentrations of these ions to exist dissolved into solution. The presence of magnesium facilitates this.

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/10/chemistry

 

Aside from low Mg, your params look pretty good which is substantiated by the good growth you are seeing. Coloration issues could be due to a lack of trace elements such as iodine, strontium, etc. These could be low due to fewer water changes to replenish elements, fast coral growth, or salt that is low in these elements. This article explains some about the various trace elements found in sea water and what they do for aquatic life. It also has a table for recommended and sea water parameters that I consider my bible.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/

 

 

I am using salifert kits. Hopefully those are alright?

 

Thank you so much for the links, I have read a few articles from Randy, and some are easier to digest than others. Will give these a go!

 

I guess I should fix one thing at a time, so the first is to raise mag a bit, and see where that takes me. I do a 10% WC once a week religiously, and will continue that routine. I'm hoping that replenishes enough trace elements. I'm using reef crystals. Based on this article, it should have enough mag etc… I guess I need to test my new SW mix.

 

Appreciate the help!

[jimbonds]

The Salifert tests are good. I use them myself for calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. The PO4 kit should have a low range and high range. Try using the low range. If the low range test comes back at 0ppm then your corals may be reacting to the lack of PO4. Aquariums should be <0.03ppm and ocean water is around 0.005ppm.

[Orangutran]

The Salifert tests are good. I use them myself for calcium, alkalinity, and magnesium. The PO4 kit should have a low range and high range. Try using the low range. If the low range test comes back at 0ppm then your corals may be reacting to the lack of PO4. Aquariums should be <0.03ppm and ocean water is around 0.005ppm.

After I read this, I went to look at my PO4 test instructions. When you say low range, do you mean "higher sensitivity", where I double everything?

 

EDIT: so I just did the high sensitivity test, and it's still zero...

[jimbonds]

After I read this, I went to look at my PO4 test instructions. When you say low range, do you mean "higher sensitivity", where I double everything?

 

EDIT: so I just did the high sensitivity test, and it's still zero...

 

Yeah, high sensitivity, low range... Hanna calls their test an "Ultra Low Range" test. Same thing. Salifert says their high sensitivity test can detect 0.015ppm. But being that concentrations should be <0.03ppm and in sea water are as low as 0.005ppm, the Salifert test may not be sensitive enough. This is where the Hanna ULR test comes in; it measures parts per billion. 0 PO4 is not good, but I doubt you actually have 0. Even if you were below the sensitivity threshold of Salifert you could still be above natural sea water concentrations. PO4 is complicated and you can read about it in this article but I don't necessarily think you should worry about it.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/

 

 

What is your water change schedule? What salt do you use? What types of media and/or media reactors do you use? How do you dose your tank?

[Orangutran]

 

Yeah, high sensitivity, low range... Hanna calls their test an "Ultra Low Range" test. Same thing. Salifert says their high sensitivity test can detect 0.015ppm. But being that concentrations should be <0.03ppm and in sea water are as low as 0.005ppm, the Salifert test may not be sensitive enough. This is where the Hanna ULR test comes in; it measures parts per billion. 0 PO4 is not good, but I doubt you actually have 0. Even if you were below the sensitivity threshold of Salifert you could still be above natural sea water concentrations. PO4 is complicated and you can read about it in this article but I don't necessarily think you should worry about it.

 

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/

 

 

What is your water change schedule? What salt do you use? What types of media and/or media reactors do you use? How do you dose your tank?

 

 

Ok lets assume my PO4 is near zero, and not really zero… Which is more believable since I feed twice a day with my auto feeder and I feed frozen every 2-3 days!

 

10% Water change once a week.

Reef Crystals salt, which I believe has elevated levels

2 tbsp GFO and 1/2 cup carbon in reactor, change every 3 weeks.

 

I don't dose…

[jimbonds]

Did you change your lights recently? For some reason I feel like I remember you mentioning you switched to LEDs. It could be trace element related but if you did change your lights then it's likely that. Many people have experienced SPS changing hue when switching to LEDs or moving corals from a MH tank to an LED tank. Also, as it's often hard to determine LED intensity without a PAR meter, sometimes your LEDs provide more PAR than you think and that can cause an increase in zooxanthellae production which effectively dulls the colors in the coral and makes them appear more brown.

[Orangutran]

Did you change your lights recently? For some reason I feel like I remember you mentioning you switched to LEDs. It could be trace element related but if you did change your lights then it's likely that. Many people have experienced SPS changing hue when switching to LEDs or moving corals from a MH tank to an LED tank. Also, as it's often hard to determine LED intensity without a PAR meter, sometimes your LEDs provide more PAR than you think and that can cause an increase in zooxanthellae production which effectively dulls the colors in the coral and makes them appear more brown.

 

I didn't change my light intensity before they started to lose colour…BUT I did go from a glass top to a screen top, so my dirty glass cover may have blocked quite a bit of light? Glad you brought it up, cus it can be a contributing factor. Since it started to fade in colour, I did turn down my LEDs a bit. And nope, this tank has been on LEDs from day 1. Thanks again for your input!!

 

As mentioned, I'm feeding frozen a bit more often the last week or so, so there's tons of food going into the tank! And I don't know if it's psychological, but I see a bit improvement in my monti and setosa. Will continue with trying to add a bit more nutrients.

 

(I have yet to bring up my magnesium, no chance to stop at an LFS.)

[jimbonds]

Measure your alkalinity daily. That will give you a good indication as to how your SPS are doing. Careful backing down the lights. I had a green monti cap start to turn brown and I assumed it was because I had bumped up my lights. In a knee jerk reaction I dropped them down below where they had originally been. I ended up killing my monti and slowly starved some other corals. I chased "possible" water chemistry issues for months as things slowly died until I finally realized I was starving my corals with lower light.

 

I'm glad to hear that things are looking better. Keep at it!

[Orangutran]

Measure your alkalinity daily. That will give you a good indication as to how your SPS are doing. Careful backing down the lights. I had a green monti cap start to turn brown and I assumed it was because I had bumped up my lights. In a knee jerk reaction I dropped them down below where they had originally been. I ended up killing my monti and slowly starved some other corals. I chased "possible" water chemistry issues for months as things slowly died until I finally realized I was starving my corals with lower light.

 

I'm glad to hear that things are looking better. Keep at it!

 

 

For the last week and a bit (measured 4 times), my alk has been consistent at 8.0, and went up to 8.3 after a water change. I'm happy with the consistency at least. Once things settle, I'll make sure to bump the lights back up if things don't improve with more nutrients and increase magnesium… At least I have a plan now!

[Orangutran]

Oops, where did June go? Guess I was too busy getting ready for my second daughter to arrive. So now that I have a 3 yr old and a new born in the house, it's very hard to find time to do my weekly w/c and maintenance. But very much worth it.

 

Going back to my previous issues, I was seeing real positive results with my montis when I bumped up mag and increased nutrients. Added some magnesium until I was over 1300 (haven't measured in a couple of weeks though). And I started feeding Phyto Feast and Reef Roids. Corals looking happy, including the zoas.

 

I did lose a chromis a few days ago, now down to one. I had a pair for like 8 months, but both were hiding for the last 3 months or so, probably due to bullying by my clowns. The last one is still hiding, so not sure how long he'll last. I would seriously trade in my clowns if my wife would let me.

 

Here's a FTS from early June, with all 6 fish in view (before I lost the chromis).

 

 

And here's some coral growth comparisons, I never realized how much they grew in 3 months until I put the pics side by side.

 

Birdnest

 

Duncan

 

Setosa

 

 

[teenyreef]

Nice growth shots! Everything looks very happy

[Orangutran]

New aquascape.

 

Old: The right side rock pillar made the tank a lot smaller, less swimming space, and it was a pain to clean the back glass on that side.

 

New: Opened up. Now just looks like 2 piles of rock, but the left pile is actually really open, with a network of caves and openings.

 

 

Oh yeah, you might notice the nasty green slime… any suggestions to get rid of it will be appreciated. Since my chromis are gone now, I have reduced my auto feeder to once a day. I may reduce further if needed…

[cruiZe]

that birdnest growth and coloring is fantastic! great job.

[cruiZe]

what % are you lights at? - i know you said you brought them down 15% , but wondering what setting they are on now.

[teenyreef]

I like the new scape! It's better balanced and it makes the sticks on top in the middle a real centerpiece

[Orangutran]

that birdnest growth and coloring is fantastic! great job.

Thanks! It's become my prettiest coral! Like I said, I didn't realize how much it grew until I put the pics side by side.

 

what % are you lights at? - i know you said you brought them down 15% , but wondering what setting they are on now.

 

I'll have to check… to be honest, I'm not sure if my lights are still too high. Can't get my forest fire to colour up, although everything is getting better. Really considering adding a single T5 bulb too, to get right of the terrible shadowing. I saw your thread, you went from T5 to LED. Do you miss the T5s?

 

I like the new scape! It's better balanced and it makes the sticks on top in the middle a real centerpiece

 

Thanks! It's a lot better now. If one of the anemone wasn't attached to that big piece of rock on the right, I would have gotten rid of it altogether.

[cruiZe]

I'll have to check… to be honest, I'm not sure if my lights are still too high. Can't get my forest fire to colour up, although everything is getting better. Really considering adding a single T5 bulb too, to get right of the terrible shadowing. I saw your thread, you went from T5 to LED. Do you miss the T5s?

 

thanks for checking it out. Overall - no. I love the ability of control with the LED's But I keep bleaching some corals while my clam starves to death. Also paying for bulbs every 6 months was annoying, but they really are not that expensive. More options also makes it more confusing, seems like everything was great back in my T5 days.

[Orangutran]

 

thanks for checking it out. Overall - no. I love the ability of control with the LED's But I keep bleaching some corals while my clam starves to death. Also paying for bulbs every 6 months was annoying, but they really are not that expensive. More options also makes it more confusing, seems like everything was great back in my T5 days.

 

Hey, I finally found the intensity of my LEDs. It is set to 45 blue and 30 White at its max for 3 hrs each day. It's a 110w reef breeder fixture, so not sure if that's too high or too low. I'm going to experiment and increase blue, but take down the whites. You're right, there are too many variables nowadays!

 

I followed your clam thread. Too bad it didn't make it. I've always wanted one, but I can barely keep corals alive, so I'll pass for now. lol

[Orangutran]

My tank's fallen on hard times recently… been battling green slime algae? Is that a thing?

 

Here are a couple of pics...

 

 

 

The good thing is that it's easy to remove off the sand and rocks with sucking and a toothbrush. Not sure if it's the cause, but I need to change my pre filter and DI to get my water back down to zero. Currently producing 2-3 TDS. Also gonna finally put in my marine pure block to get nitrates down. Already running GFO, won't change the amount, but will change them sooner.

 

Any advice on the green slime is appreciated, I assume it's similar to cyano? Not much internet info on it.

 

Also found vermetid snails! I hate those things!!! Haven't had time to observe my tank in detail, and all of a sudden I see them popping up! I need an underwater torch! Is there such a thing?

 

And I found an idea to scare my clowns into the nem with a fish net, and to my surprise they ran (ok swam) into it and started to rub the nem! Pictures to prove it! But they leave when the net is gone… those bastards… I need a bigger fish to scare them 24/7.

 

[cruiZe]

first off, great job scaring the clowns into the nem! That's awesome. My female has touched mine for a second when bating her with food but she still ran back to the overflow they host.

 

Have you ever vacuumed your sand? I recommend you read about it and start. I have a couple pics of my process in my tank thread. I have GHA that tends to pop up. Remove the rock (or siphon out sand) peroxide it, rinse it and put it back!

 

I'm willing to bet deep in your sand it's super nasty, gotta carefully and one area at a time, get that nasty out!

 

How long have you had that ReefBuilders Photon light? do you love it?

[teenyreef]

I had green algae just like that once although it was only on the rocks. Have you checked phosphates? The rodi problem is certainly contributing, and I agree that vacuuming the sand will help too.

[Orangutran]

first off, great job scaring the clowns into the nem! That's awesome. My female has touched mine for a second when bating her with food but she still ran back to the overflow they host.

 

Have you ever vacuumed your sand? I recommend you read about it and start. I have a couple pics of my process in my tank thread. I have GHA that tends to pop up. Remove the rock (or siphon out sand) peroxide it, rinse it and put it back!

 

I'm willing to bet deep in your sand it's super nasty, gotta carefully and one area at a time, get that nasty out!

 

How long have you had that ReefBuilders Photon light? do you love it?

 

 

Try the net trick.. I'm gonna keep doing it till it works. My clowns bite my hand or anything else I put in the thank, but is scared shitless of the net!

 

I will try vacuuming the sand when I get a chance… I don't have much sand (1") and I did that for a reason.

 

Had the photon for a year now, but I'm not sure if I love it. Which is why I'm thinking of supplementing with a t5 bulb. Overall I'm happy with it, just that corals don't look as good as other people's tanks. I buy frags from other hobbyist, looks great in their tank, but when I bring it home, not so great. They run t5s.

I had green algae just like that once although it was only on the rocks. Have you checked phosphates? The rodi problem is certainly contributing, and I agree that vacuuming the sand will help too.

 

How did you get rid of yours?

My phosphates were zero about a month ago, but I have not checked since. New kid really took away all my reefing time. I'm glad this green slime comes off so easily though, could be a lot worse! Hopefully I have time this weekend to do the things I mentioned...

[vlangel]

Good morning orangutran! Long time no talk. I am just catching up on your thread since I was also crazy busy and not on the forum much over the summer.

I am fighting red slime algae in my tank, (cyano). Its a pain. Is most of the green slime just on the sandbed?

 

O yeah, congrats on having the new baby! Yes, they take up a lot of your time but someday they will grow up, get married and move away and you and your wife will miss them. Enjoy your children now as much as possible.