TeenyReef's 10g Fusion - ATO Disaster

[Pinner Reef]

21 hours ago, teenyreef said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

You will have to trim back the red so that the green portion has room to grow.

 

You can see in this pic at the top left any of the colors surrounded fail to extend said coloring any further.

http://www.reefinsanity.com/sps

 

 

You might be able to trigger another layer of growth by scratching just next to the green however that might not get both colors to grow up the new layer. Or, Ya know... just wait for that other grafted frag to grow in 

 

 

[Reefkid88]

That Boba Fett is going to be CRAZZZZZY when it colors up for you. 

[teenyreef]

2 hours ago, Pinner Reef said:

 

 

You will have to trim back the red so that the green portion has room to grow.

 

You can see in this pic at the top left any of the colors surrounded fail to extend said coloring any further.

http://www.reefinsanity.com/sps

 

 

You might be able to trigger another layer of growth by scratching just next to the green however that might not get both colors to grow up the new layer. Or, Ya know... just wait for that other grafted frag to grow in 

 

 

That's good advice - I thought the same thing and I need to keep that red cap away from Boba Fettt anyway

2 hours ago, Reefkid88 said:

That Boba Fett is going to be CRAZZZZZY when it colors up for you. 

I agree! All the other acros are growing well and have good colors in this tank, so I'm cautiously optimistic! 

[teenyreef]

Well, my Red Planet record is now officially 0 for 3 

 

 

[FishDooD65]

On 11/2/2017 at 11:34 PM, teenyreef said:

Well, my Red Planet record is now officially 0 for 3 

 

 

Darn dude, sorry to hear you have bad luck with the Red Planet. When I had my mini colony in my bigger tank, I suffered a couple of losses as well. I heard from a friend, he recommended I try to get a strain of Red Planet from a tank raised ORA specimen and to constantly check alkalinity and temp. My buddy told me his red planet was his warning coral, he said that if the corals ever looked unhappy something was wrong. Temp and Alkalinity are 2 of the most important factors, which I believe unless it was pure luck my 3rd try, i was successful and got the coral to encrust, grown, and color up nicely. i hope this helps you out from my experience.

[teenyreef]

3 hours ago, FishDooD65 said:

Darn dude, sorry to hear you have bad luck with the Red Planet. When I had my mini colony in my bigger tank, I suffered a couple of losses as well. I heard from a friend, he recommended I try to get a strain of Red Planet from a tank raised ORA specimen and to constantly check alkalinity and temp. My buddy told me his red planet was his warning coral, he said that if the corals ever looked unhappy something was wrong. Temp and Alkalinity are 2 of the most important factors, which I believe unless it was pure luck my 3rd try, i was successful and got the coral to encrust, grown, and color up nicely. i hope this helps you out from my experience.

Thanks for the information! It really helps to confirm some suspicions I've had. My favorite lfs guy said he's getting ready to frag some red planet that he's been growing out from a locally grown mother colony that was grown out to the size of a dinner plate. There definitely seem to be some strains that are better than other. and my experience certainly agrees that the red planet acts like a canary in a coal mine.

I also wondered about the alk, Over the last couple weeks I've noticed a decline in alkalinity consumption in the tank, resulting in a rise from 7.5 to 8.5 over about a week or so. Normally that's not a big deal when it's only .1 or .2 per day, but I've wondered if that might have contributed to the problem.

Finally, nutrients have gone up since I started the ATI Elements method and stopped doing water changes. So that may have also caused some problems. It also could be the elevated level of aluminum (see below), but I would think if that was the problem I'd see more coral stress that just the red planet.

 

Speaking of parameters, I just got my Triton test results yesterday. Everything was normal except high lanthanum (which I expected since I dose PhosphateRX), and high levels of aluminum, which I did not expect. I don't use aluminum-based phosphate removers, so I don't really know what caused it. I did a two gallon water change the other night, and ordered some Panta Lith, which is a new product from Unique Corals (that's been in use in Europe for a while) which is supposed to help chemically remove aluminum and tin. I'll try it out and then run another Triton test in another month to see how that worked.

 

I also cleaned the sponge in the skimmer, and scrubbed the pumps and back chambers. Hopefully that will help bring nitrates down some more. As of late last week they were around 25, and I'd really like to shoot for 15 or below.

 

 

[teenyreef]

Nitrates are down to 20 after the water change and deep cleaning, and even though I've only put in one drop of PhosphateRx in the last week, phosphates were at .01. I also lost the little green stylo, but it hadn't been doing well since I first put it in the tank. It's little disappointing to lose it since it was a frag from my original 4g tank, but as long as everything else stays stable I'll be happy. I've been bringing alkalinity down very slowly since last week, and it's almost back on track.

 

In brighter news, I went to the lfs for peppermint shrimp last week. I got six for $30, and put two in this tank and four in the 30g frag tank. I'm happy to report that the aiptasia seem to be completely gone after about a week! I wasn't sure they would be OK in this tank, of if Doug the puffer would turn them into dinner, but no problems so far 

[Lula_Mae]

2 hours ago, teenyreef said:

Nitrates are down to 20 after the water change and deep cleaning, and even though I've only put in one drop of PhosphateRx in the last week, phosphates were at .01. I also lost the little green stylo, but it hadn't been doing well since I first put it in the tank. It's little disappointing to lose it since it was a frag from my original 4g tank, but as long as everything else stays stable I'll be happy. I've been bringing alkalinity down very slowly since last week, and it's almost back on track.

 

In brighter news, I went to the lfs for peppermint shrimp last week. I got six for $30, and put two in this tank and four in the 30g frag tank. I'm happy to report that the aiptasia seem to be completely gone after about a week! I wasn't sure they would be OK in this tank, of if Doug the puffer would turn them into dinner, but no problems so far 

May they never choose to turn your corals into dinner...

[gone_PHiSHin]

14 minutes ago, Lula_Mae said:

May they never choose to turn your corals into dinner...

 

yeah peppermints make nervous 

[Lula_Mae]

19 minutes ago, gone_PHiSHin said:

 

yeah peppermints make nervous 

Only time I've had them, they had fun ripping the skirts off my hapless zoas.

[teenyreef]

If they do that they are going right back where they came from 

[Cannedfish]

14 hours ago, teenyreef said:

If they do that they are going right back where they came from 

 

Candyland?

[NanoReefMinimalist]

Why these monti has very coarse textures?

[HarryPotter]

That sucks with the red planet!!! Tank looks great overall. 

[Nano sapiens]

On 11/9/2017 at 5:09 PM, teenyreef said:

There definitely seem to be some strains that are better than other. and my experience certainly agrees that the red planet acts like a canary in a coal mine.

I had the 'Red Planet' Acro from Vivid.  I've never seen such a temperamental coral.  Out of a few frags, one finally got happy and went from a tiny nubb'in to a 4" plate with spikes in just a few months.  Also, the most aggressive coral I've encountered this side of a Hydnophora.  I was happy to move it on to someone with a much larger tank before it expanded and killed even more corals.

Quote

I also wondered about the alk, Over the last couple weeks I've noticed a decline in alkalinity consumption in the tank, resulting in a rise from 7.5 to 8.5 over about a week or so. Normally that's not a big deal when it's only .1 or .2 per day, but I've wondered if that might have contributed to the problem.

Finally, nutrients have gone up since I started the ATI Elements method and stopped doing water changes. So that may have also caused some problems. It also could be the elevated level of aluminum (see below), but I would think if that was the problem I'd see more coral stress that just the red planet.

 

Speaking of parameters, I just got my Triton test results yesterday. Everything was normal except high lanthanum (which I expected since I dose PhosphateRX), and high levels of aluminum, which I did not expect. I don't use aluminum-based phosphate removers, so I don't really know what caused it. I did a two gallon water change the other night, and ordered some Panta Lith, which is a new product from Unique Corals (that's been in use in Europe for a while) which is supposed to help chemically remove aluminum and tin. I'll try it out and then run another Triton test in another month to see how that worked.

 

I also cleaned the sponge in the skimmer, and scrubbed the pumps and back chambers. Hopefully that will help bring nitrates down some more. As of late last week they were around 25, and I'd really like to shoot for 15 or below.

 

 

The rise in nutrients causes the zooxanthellae to multiply.  One would think that more zoox = more photosythate for the coral to utilize for calcification, but the opposite is true, actually, under NSW/near NSW conditions.  Since there is less photosynthate being produced under higher nutrient conditions, calcification slows:  

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/5/aafeature

 

This article shows that in nutrient enriched conditions, DIC limitation is the main limiter to growth:

 

'If high alkalinity levels are maintained, coral growth rates can remain high under eutrophic conditions. This is especially relevant for home aquaria, which often experience higher than natural inorganic nutrient levels due to high fish stocking densities.'

 

On the plus side, more nutrients (within limits) makes for richer colored corals...if that appeals to you (it does to me) 

 

Another limiting factor to growth/alk/ca usage is the temperature decrease from summer to fall.  I get this every Autumn where Alk/Ca drops by ~30-40% due to slower organism metabolism.  This year, it has been a nearly 50% drop due to the combo of twice as many fish (online shipment error) and the resultant additional feeding that produces more waste products plus a temp drop from ~78-79 for much of the day to a solid 76 F maintained by my heater.

[teenyreef]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:49 AM, Cannedfish said:

 

Candyland?

On 11/15/2017 at 10:36 AM, NanoReefMinimalist said:

Why these monti has very coarse textures?

I think it may be the pictures - they are zoomed way in. But that red monti does grow slowly, and very thick.

[teenyreef]

On 11/15/2017 at 10:54 AM, HarryPotter said:

That sucks with the red planet!!! Tank looks great overall. 

Thanks, Harry! It's funny how many people seem to have trouble with that particular coral.

[teenyreef]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:12 PM, Nano sapiens said:

I had the 'Red Planet' Acro from Vivid.  I've never seen such a temperamental coral.  Out of a few frags, one finally got happy and went from a tiny nubb'in to a 4" plate with spikes in just a few months.  Also, the most aggressive coral I've encountered this side of a Hydnophora.  I was happy to move it on to someone with a much larger tank before it expanded and killed even more corals.

The rise in nutrients causes the zooxanthellae to multiply.  One would think that more zoox = more photosythate for the coral to utilize for calcification, but the opposite is true, actually, under NSW/near NSW conditions.  Since there is less photosynthate being produced under higher nutrient conditions, calcification slows:  

 

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/5/aafeature

 

This article shows that in nutrient enriched conditions, DIC limitation is the main limiter to growth:

 

'If high alkalinity levels are maintained, coral growth rates can remain high under eutrophic conditions. This is especially relevant for home aquaria, which often experience higher than natural inorganic nutrient levels due to high fish stocking densities.'

 

On the plus side, more nutrients (within limits) makes for richer colored corals...if that appeals to you (it does to me) 

 

Another limiting factor to growth/alk/ca usage is the temperature decrease from summer to fall.  I get this every Autumn where Alk/Ca drops by ~30-40% due to slower organism metabolism.  This year, it has been a nearly 50% drop due to the combo of twice as many fish (online shipment error) and the resultant additional feeding that produces more waste products plus a temp drop from ~78-79 for much of the day to a solid 76 F maintained by my heater.

That's really interesting, and fits well with what I've always been told - lower alk for lower nutrients, higher alk for higher nutrients. I wonder if I had just left the dosing alone, if it would have risen naturally due to the lower consumption until it reached a new stable point on it's own?

[teenyreef]

I went a week without using any PhosphateRx, and phosphates went through the roof, from .01 to .18. The nameless acro on the very top that was turning a nice blue is mostly brown again, which is a sure sign things aren't right. I did a two gallon water change and dosed one drop of PhosphateRx, and I'll test again tomorrow to make sure it's not just a bad reading. 

 

Nitrates are holding steady, though, around 15, so that's good. It will probably be weeks before I see all the damage from allowing nitrates and phosphates to spike the way they did, though.

 

In the meantime, here are the November FTS and top down pictures:

11-19/2017 IM10 FTS:

 

11-19/2017 IM10 Top Down:

 

[Nano sapiens]

1 hour ago, teenyreef said:

That's really interesting, and fits well with what I've always been told - lower alk for lower nutrients, higher alk for higher nutrients. I wonder if I had just left the dosing alone, if it would have risen naturally due to the lower consumption until it reached a new stable point on it's own?

I believe it would have equalized (at least for a while) since reef systems are constantly trying to achieve a state of dynamic equilibrium.

[thilankasp]

Amazing.... Just Amazing..!!

[DaveFason]

Interesting how quick your corals react to the phosphates going up. The tank otherwise is looking great. 

-Dave

[Pjanssen]

Even with your troubles your tank(s) are still amazing. To me it looks like one of the healthiest tanks around. I still haven't pulled the trigger on a monti, but every time I see yours I want to. Maybe once the anemones come out I'll feel more comfortable about them.

 

[Jimmeh Lee]

I’m glad to see you’ve still got this tank up and running! New fts looks great in spite of any browning!

[Ryebreadiest]

Looking great!  Is there a story behind the toby (puffer?)?  I've always wanted one of those but was either scared of nipping or worried about having enough room.