theishkid's CAD Lights 34G Mini-II

[theishkid]

Well I do believe I am getting my diatom bloom!

I'm gonna do another test tonight and see what my parameters have gone to.

Is this time to order a clean up crew?

 

 

 

[theishkid]

I went home for lunch today and I definitely have a bloom going on. I'll do a test tonight but is it time to go ahead and do a water change?

[theishkid]

Did the test tonight... I believe my cycle is complete. I just ordered my cleanup crew from John at reef cleaners.

 

Salinity - 1.024

PH - 8.3

Carbonate Hardness - 10 dKH

Nitrate - 0 ppm

Nitrite - 0 ppm

Ammonia - 0 ppm

[GTi]

Hi!

 

I've been travelling a lot recently and not had time to follow the forums much. Were you dosing ammonia or adding another source of ammonia? I ask because I am concerned by the lack of nitrates. Usually the cycle involves building up the bacteria to convert ammonia to nitrite. Next the bacteria to convert nitrite to nitrate. Some nitrate will be converted to nitrogen but usually not much. During the process a steady source of ammonia is required to sustain the colonies of bacteria. If there is no ammonia source, a small amount of bacteria will grow and process the existing ammonia and nitrite but they will either die off due to lack of food or not be in sufficient numbers when you add livestock and food to the tank and will not be able to process the ammonia generated.

 

Your live rock will have had a little die off an generated some ammonia but possibly not enough to sustain the bacteria.

 

Perhaps someone else can chime in to confirm this or correct me.

[theishkid]

Your live rock will have had a little die off an generated some ammonia but possibly not enough to sustain the bacteria

Is your thought that the cycle has not actually happened yet?

 

The problem is that I was not smart enough to be testing for the past month that the tank has been running.

I did not do any dosing. I just started with the sand and 3 little live rocks for three weeks, then I received my actual live rock order from Florida of twenty pounds last week.

 

I was told that the diatom bloom is usually an identifier that the cycle is complete or nearing completion. So once I saw that I was lazy and didn't want to test my water and took it up to the LFS for them to test.

 

Your thoughts?

[GTi]

Is your thought that the cycle has not actually happened yet?

 

The problem is that I was not smart enough to be testing for the past month that the tank has been running.

I did not do any dosing. I just started with the sand and 3 little live rocks for three weeks, then I received my actual live rock order from Florida of twenty pounds last week.

 

I was told that the diatom bloom is usually an identifier that the cycle is complete or nearing completion. So once I saw that I was lazy and didn't want to test my water and took it up to the LFS for them to test.

 

Your thoughts?

That is my concern - if you have only had a mini-cycle, you have bacteria present but possibly not in sufficient numbers to support much livestock. If that is the case, once you add livestock, there will be measurable ammonia until the bacteria population builds and can process it all in a timely fashion.

 

I'm not an expert, but that's my understanding.

 

If you do add livestock, I would suggest at least doing ammonia tests each day for the first few days just in case.

[theishkid]

If you do add livestock, I would suggest at least doing ammonia tests each day for the first few days just in case.

Well based on your assessment I'm going to go against what I was originally going to do this weekend. I was going to add a clown but I think I'll just wait. I've got my clean up crew on the way and should be here next Tuesday/Wednesday. I'll keep checking ammonia and see if anything changes.

[D Z]

Just make sure you are still feeding the tank in some way. I doubt there is no bacteria population in your tank, it just may not be strong enough of a population to support a spike in bioload. You can test it out by adding 2ppm of ammonium chloride. If the tank can process it within 24 hours, then you do have a strong bacteria presence. Whatever you do, do not leave the tank without food/fish/ammonia source any longer, or you may run the risk of loosing any good bacteria that you do have, and then you will be starting over from square one.

 

 

This recently happened to me, I think. I started my tank very much different that you did: dry rock and bottled bacteria. This gave me what I think was a very "soft" cycle. I did not test anything until about 2 weeks in and then noticed a very small spike in nitrites and nitrates, then a VERY small diatom bloom(like the size of a quarter). I added a fairly large CUC and then 2 clownfish less that a week later. Then, over the next week, the tank pretty much went through what appeared to be a bacteria bloom and a second mini cycle. Luckily, I did not loose anything.

[GTi]

Just make sure you are still feeding the tank in some way. I doubt there is no bacteria population in your tank, it just may not be strong enough of a population to support a spike in bioload. You can test it out by adding 2ppm of ammonium chloride. If the tank can process it within 24 hours, then you do have a strong bacteria presence. Whatever you do, do not leave the tank without food/fish/ammonia source any longer, or you may run the risk of loosing any good bacteria that you do have, and then you will be starting over from square one.

 

This is a great idea. Wish I'd suggested it!

[theishkid]

Whatever you do, do not leave the tank without food/fish/ammonia source any longer, or you may run the risk of loosing any good bacteria that you do have, and then you will be starting over from square one.

So do you think I should go get a clown right now? Would it be safe?

[GTi]

So do you think I should go get a clown right now? Would it be safe?

I would say no - not until you have dosed and then tested the ammonia.

Worst case is that there isn't enough bacteria to process the ammonia and you have to keep dosing for a few more days or weeks to build up the bacteria population.

Best case - the ammonia is processed to nitrate overnight and you know there's a good population of bacteria and can go and buy your fish with confidence.

 

Here's some information about 'Fishless Cycling' where you use ammonium chloride: http://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/fishless-cycling

[theishkid]

I would say no - not until you have dosed and then tested the ammonia.

Worst case is that there isn't enough bacteria to process the ammonia and you have to keep dosing for a few more days or weeks to build up the bacteria population.

Best case - the ammonia is processed to nitrate overnight and you know there's a good population of bacteria and can go and buy your fish with confidence.

Ok sounds good… so where do you get the ammonium chloride??

[D Z]

I agree with GTi, it would not be 100% safe at this point.

 

I wish you were closer, I would give you my bottle of Ammonium Chloride. None-the-less, you can get it off of Amazon Prime.

 

http://www.amazon.com/DrTims-Aquatics-Ammonium-chloride-Aquarium/dp/B006MP4QG6

[theishkid]

I agree with GTi, it would not be 100% safe at this point.

 

I wish you were closer, I would give you my bottle of Ammonium Chloride. None-the-less, you can get it off of Amazon Prime.

 

http://www.amazon.com/DrTims-Aquatics-Ammonium-chloride-Aquarium/dp/B006MP4QG6

My LFS has Fritz ammonium chloride. Is that the same thing or should I overnight Dr Tims?

[theishkid]

I went ahead and overnighted the Dr Tims. I'll dump it in tomorrow.

[GTi]

I went ahead and overnighted the Dr Tims. I'll dump it in tomorrow.

 

The instructions with the ammonium chloride will say that a certain number of drops per gallon will result in a certain concentration of ammonia in the tank. A lot of people find it isn't as strong as it should be so I recommend adding the suggested dosage and then immediately doing an ammonia test. That way you'll have a good baseline for how much you put in and it will let you know how much was processed by the bacteria by the next day.

 

Good luck!

[theishkid]

Thanks for the tip. So if the ammonia drops all the way down 24 hours later then I'm good?

[GTi]

Thanks for the tip. So if the ammonia drops all the way down 24 hours later then I'm good?

If you get it up to 2 ppm and it drops to nothing within that timeframe, I'd say you are good to go. It's still best practice to add livestock gradually so the bacteria can keep up with the waste products.

 

I suspect the ammonia won't drop quite that fast and you'll have a bit more cycling to do but I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. Waiting for the tank to cycle is the worst!

[theishkid]

Well I got the ammonia this afternoon and put it in the tank. It raised my ammonia up to 2 ppm very quickly. The cool thing was seeing how crazy my skimmer went after I added it. It was basically doing nothing for the past week and then it just went crazy with large bubbles.

[GTi]

Well I got the ammonia this afternoon and put it in the tank. It raised my ammonia up to 2 ppm very quickly. The cool thing was seeing how crazy my skimmer went after I added it. It was basically doing nothing for the past week and then it just went crazy with large bubbles.

 

You may want to turn the skimmer off and remove any filtration, carbon etc while you run this test. I know some people run media during the cycle but if none of this stuff is in there, it can't affect the results by possibly removing any ammonia. Just a thought. Hopefully you'll get a low or zero reading tomorrow afternoon!

[theishkid]

Ok after exactly 24 hours of dosing the ammonia...

Ammonia - 0 ppm (I think)

Nitrite - 0 ppm

Nitrate was between 0 ppm and 5 ppm

 

I'm going to take this up to the LFS and see if their numbers match mine because i'm not the best with these stupid color cards. I need to invest in some hanna checkers.

[GTi]

Sounds promising!

[theishkid]

Well the LFS matched my numbers up so I went ahead and bought a clown today. Hopefully it wasn't too soon.

Should I have bought two of them to have a pair? I just wanted to start out with one so that I didn't overload my tank.

 

[mpsti05]

^ very nice, with clowns I always like to buy them in pairs and make sure one is larger than the other. However you should be fine to grab another to pair them up maybe a few weeks or something.

[theishkid]

Quick update. I changed up my first post to reflect all purchases and a full tank shot.

I made my netted top that I purchased from BRS over the weekend but I have to find some way of clamping it to the tank.

The clown is doing pretty good I think… he didn't like my spectra pellets so I went back to the LFS and bought some flakes the he was previously eating. He seemed to like that a little bit better but still didn't eat too much.

 

My cleanup crew from John at reef cleaners is on the way and should be here tomorrow. I ordered a 30 gallon quick crew that consists of 28 Dwarf Ceriths, 11 Nassarius, 12 FLorida Ceriths, and 11 Nerites. I can't wait to see what John actually sends!