Ready to give up

[Lifer]

If you are in Canada, you should have a Sobeys in your area, they have distilled water.

[Gilligan]

I was buying distilled water in the pharmacy section at my local "Zehrs" grocery store for a while.

 

Shoppers drug mart should also carry it, as well as other pharmacies.

 

Edit: I can't believe it took me 24 minutes to write this post.

[Timfish]

Well, I'm going to be the contrarian and say it's not your source water. I'm betting that somehow your ecosystem has gotten "stuck" and is favoring the single cell algae you are seeing (I'm thinking as it's not white which I would expect if it's bacteria). I would definitely do a 100% water change but I would get at least some of the water from a healthy mature reef system. I would suggest doing additional weekly/biweekly water changes for a couple of months with the same water. If it is fundamentally an "imbalance" in your ecosystem it will take weeks for the equilibrium to shift so be patient. I do support the idea of not spending any more money on anything with the exception of adding a fish (I'm assuming you can get one that's been quarintined). Many will think this is obtuse but you need to kick the ecosystem and a fish will do that (besides, fish feces are important to inverts and marine ecosystems).

[Amy]

Okay I have to try and limit what is going on here and I am getting water from a different source so when I do a water change do I just do my regular 8 cups or would I do 100% with the new water source?

[seabass]

Again, I'd change it all out.

[xiaoxiy]

Again, I'd change it all out.

This ^. Match the parameters and change it all out.

[BeardedReeferLLC]

Agreed ^^

[Amy]

Thanks everyone for the replies, it will be all changed out today.

[Amy]

So I did the complete water change today, but tonight I noticed something very strange.

 

I was looking at the water surface and in a small area the size of a quarter is these white particles floating just in one spot. What is this?

 

I removed with a spoon most of it some of it moved when I put the spoon in the water maybe tomorrow it will be there again so I can remove the rest.

 

Any idea as to what this is?

[Halo_003]

Not sure what it is other than potentially some residue from salt mix. I hope that wasn't a metal spoon.

[seabass]

I hope that wasn't a metal spoon.

Haha, I didn't consider that. I always use plastic cups, and other plastic utensils. However, I wouldn't think that such a short exposure would cause a problem to either a metal spoon or the water.

[Go Tigers!]

Never give up ! Never surrender!

[Amy]

No the spoon was a plastic one :-)

 

This morning the stuff is gone, nothing floating around anymore, maybe it was from the salt when I did this change, I am so curious to see if it was that water I was using. So far this morning the tank is nice and clear but time will tell.

[Amy]

Now this is very interesting indeed. Tank is still nice and clear

 

By now with the other water it would be cloudy. So hope this keeps up and its very interesting. That other water (bad stuff) as I call it came from our wonderful Safeway which is now Sobeys's. They did change their water source as the name is different and when I asked the manager he claimed its all the same just a different company now running it. I think something more than a name change took place there for sure, will never ever us it again if that is the problem.

 

This other place does not have the same source of water as Sobeys's does but both are RO water as we don't have the RODI here unless you know someone personally. But if this water I am using now works, hey I will stay with it.

 

Funny thing though the Safeway water was fine when I started in Nov/13 but when they changed companies that is when all my issues started. Here is keeping fingers crossed that this works now and my issue is resolved.

[jservedio]

Now this is very interesting indeed. Tank is still nice and clear

 

By now with the other water it would be cloudy. So hope this keeps up and its very interesting. That other water (bad stuff) as I call it came from our wonderful Safeway which is now Sobeys's. They did change their water source as the name is different and when I asked the manager he claimed its all the same just a different company now running it. I think something more than a name change took place there for sure, will never ever us it again if that is the problem.

 

This other place does not have the same source of water as Sobeys's does but both are RO water as we don't have the RODI here unless you know someone personally. But if this water I am using now works, hey I will stay with it.

 

Funny thing though the Safeway water was fine when I started in Nov/13 but when they changed companies that is when all my issues started. Here is keeping fingers crossed that this works now and my issue is resolved.

 

I have to agree with everyone else that you should source distilled water. I find it hard to believe, even if you live in some podunk off-the-grid town in the Yukon, that you can't get distilled - simply try harder. Grocery stores, gas stations, hardware stores, plant/nursery stores, pharmacies, etc. all carry or have distilled water. If you can buy a clothing iron or a clothing steamer, you can but distilled water since they typically require distilled water. Buy it in single gallon bottles or smaller if you have to. Even for my 20g before I got an RODI unit, it only cost me $15 a month or so in water buying 1 gallon jugs from the supermarket.

 

Failing all that, buy a used RODI unit for $50 or less. If you aren't willing to drive and search for distilled or spend $50 to save your reef, there is nothing anyone here can do for you. You might get away without distilled or RODI on a nano reef, but on a pico there is simply no room for error.

 

As for your current water - "RO" water can have basically anything in it and a lot of RO filtered drinking water has minerals and all kinds of junk added back into it. To be called "RO", it just needs to have passed through a Reverse Osmosis membrane - it doesn't matter what the TDS is or what the mineral content is. Just read the labels on everything. Don't trust a supermarket manager to know what is going on in the water machine either unless they are a reefer - they are clueless about that.

[Amy]

I don't think you need to be quite that abrasive in your response. I don't live in a hick town and yes we do have distilled water here I have also inquired into that with other reefers and they have really mixed feelings about distilled water as you don't know how it was distilled and if any copper was used in the process that is why I am using RO water. If the water still becomes an issue I will gladly give it a try but for now things seem to be doing very well thank you!!

[seabass]

... I have also inquired into that with other reefers and they have really mixed feelings about distilled water as you don't know how it was distilled and if any copper was used in the process that is why I am using RO water.

This used to be a concern; but now, most people assume (and I think correctly) that it isn't a problem. Pure water (like distilled) will dissolve copper over time; so a few decades ago, (to save money on replacement costs) distillers switched to ceramic, glass, stainless, titanium, etc. Now you can be just about certain that distilled water is safe to use. Most people still prefer the control, convenience, and cost savings of making their own RO/DI water; but distilled water is the next best option.

 

If you still have doubts, buy Walmart's brand of distilled water. Reefers have tested it in the past; and it has been (and is currently being) used by many reefers. And although the facilities (and therefore equipment) are subject to change, the sheer volume of water they process makes it even less likely that they would ever use copper in the process. It's pretty much a non-issue today.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot that your Walmart doesn't stock distilled water; but the rest of the discussion is still pertinent.

[jservedio]

This used to be a concern; but now, most people assume (and I think correctly) that it isn't a problem. Pure water (like distilled) will dissolve copper over time; so a few decades ago, (to save money on replacement costs) distillers switched to ceramic, glass, stainless, titanium, etc. Now you can be just about certain that distilled water is safe to use. Most people still prefer the control, convenience, and cost savings of making their own RO/DI water; but distilled water is the next best option.

 

If you still have doubts, buy Walmart's brand of distilled water. Reefers have tested it in the past; and it has been (and is currently being) used by many reefers. And although the facilities (and therefore equipment) are subject to change, the sheer volume of water they process makes it even less likely that they would ever use copper in the process. It's pretty much a non-issue today.

 

EDIT: Sorry, I forgot that your Walmart doesn't stock distilled water; but the rest of the discussion is still pertinent.

 

Yep - no major commercial water distiller today uses copper in their distillation process. Using a copper still is completely impractical for large volume water production and the only places still using copper stills are using it for alcohol. Jameson comes to mind as a modern distiller still using a few big copper pot stills, but they aren't making water with them. Also, if you actually read the label on distilled water bottles, you will notice that many of them are also deionized in addition to distilled.

[jservedio]

I don't think you need to be quite that abrasive in your response. I don't live in a hick town and yes we do have distilled water here I have also inquired into that with other reefers and they have really mixed feelings about distilled water as you don't know how it was distilled and if any copper was used in the process that is why I am using RO water. If the water still becomes an issue I will gladly give it a try but for now things seem to be doing very well thank you!!

 

I did live in a little hick town for half my life, so it wasn't meant as a disparagement, just that you can get distilled anywhere. The fear of copper in distilled water is factually wrong - as I pointed out no major commercial water distiller uses copper stills and the majority of distilled wated is also deionized (I never bought a bottle of distilled water that wasn't also DI). And guess what deionization removes? Copper... so even if they used a copper still it would still have no copper in the water.

 

Guess what doesn't remove copper ions - RO. Copper is cation that passes right through the RO membrane along with sodium, calcium, and iron along with anions like chloride and sulfate. Those things aren't in water that was deionized and many distilled water brands are also deionized.

 

Using RO water on a pico when distilled water is available is a very bad idea. By definition, a pico has no room for error. Saying things are alright now after doing a 100% water change is absurd, especially when you have had problems for so long which unless there is another problem you didn't mention, were most likely caused by your water.

 

You simply can't know what is in store-vending-machine RO water because of how many ions pass directly through the RO membrane. You can be sure what is in your Distilled and DI'd water because only so much can make it through - and that is measured in very low ppb and ppt (trillion).

 

If you want to compare - simply buy a super cheap TDS meter for $10 or $15 and stick it in a bottle of distilled water and in your RO water. One is going to measure 0 and the other isn't. Do you want to add detectible levels of some unknown substance into to your tiny pico tank every single time you top off?

[Amy]

Thanks for the replies and clarification on distilled water. Because I did a 100% change on this tank I won't be doing another normal water change for a few weeks now only top ups. So can I start to use distilled for top ups and for water changes with no issues arising from me using the RO?

 

Also should it say on the jug deionized?

[jservedio]

Thanks for the replies and clarification on distilled water. Because I did a 100% change on this tank I won't be doing another normal water change for a few weeks now only top ups. So can I start to use distilled for top ups and for water changes with no issues arising from me using the RO?

 

Also should it say on the jug deionized?

 

 

It ususally will say in small print right on the front label what processing the water went through. Also, you shouldn't wait a few weeks for your next water change even after a 100% change - you should continue doing your normal weekly water change to prevent a new build up of nutrients. There will be no issues from switching to a higher purity water at all - things may actually very quickly start looking better. It might be a good idea to throw a poly-filter pad in there to soak up anything that was causing problems if it was something coming in with your old RO water - they change color so if it was a copper or metal problem, you will know exactly what metal it was (for copper, it'll turn blue).

 

The typical processing for distilling water is 1. Sand filter, 2. sub-micron carbon block filtering, 3. Distillation in stainless steel boiler, 4. sub-micron filtering of anything picked up in the boiler, 5. deionization (optional).

[Amy]

Update on this water issue. So like I said I tried RO water from a complete different source that gets their water from a different lake before it goes into the system. We have a few lakes our drinking water comes from and I needed to narrow it all down.

 

So the issue still was the same with the different RO water. So that did not help.

 

A fellow reefer here recommended that I get rid of all my sand and get some new live sand, do a water change on the tank with distilled water and see how that goes. So in the process if I was to do this I might as well move it to my 3 gallon from the 2 so with new live sand from an established system I did this, mixed up the new distilled water but was short a few cups and had to use the remaining RO water but the majority of the new water is distilled.

 

The only other thing I can think of could it be my salt. I use instant ocean and can you get bad salt? Have always used this brand in the past with no issues at all.

 

The tank was done on Friday, I did not change or touch the filter as I don't want to mess around with to much and cause more issues. I put the same rock with the anemones back into the tank and the 4 small pieces that have a few things growing on them as well back in so everything that was in the 2 gal is back int he 3 gal.

 

I will say that I found the other sand quite dirty in color and its a very thin bed.

 

Could the filter size be a problem as well? I am running a bit smaller HOB filter than the Aqua Plus Mini, I have carbon, foam and some poly wool for polishing in there as well. The same things as I did with the 2 gal.

 

today I am going to do some testing and see where everything is. Corals all look the same nothing dying snails and crabs are fine too.

 

The only think miffed is my one Mini Max likes the back of the rock instead of the front so leaving him alone. Been feeding them all is well there too.

 

The tank right now is a touch cloudy, I can still see in there but its not nice a pure clear.

 

So have to ask, since I don't have access to RODI water unless I try and find someone with a unit in their home, can you mix equal parts of RO water with Distilled to get the same thing as RODI?

 

Sorry if its a stupid question.

[Chadf]

So have to ask, since I don't have access to RODI water unless I try and find someone with a unit in their home, can you mix equal parts of RO water with Distilled to get the same thing as RODI?

 

Sorry if its a stupid question.

What? No.

 

Distilled is not DI, DI means deionized.

 

The best water for reefs is as follows:

 

1. RO/DI with verified 0 tds

2. Distilled

3. RO

[Amy]

Thanks for that, so I guess I will stay with the distilled for a bit to see if there is any change.

 

What does ozonated mean?

[seabass]

What does ozonated mean?

To disinfect with ozone. It's a powerful oxidant (which can be even more effective than chlorine). However, for reef tanks, it's not as good as RO/DI or distilled.

 

 

Sure RO/DI or distilled is best, but I don't really believe that's your problem. If it's a bacterial bloom, you might even try a water clarifier (like Caribsea's Bio Magnet) and some filter floss.