First Reef Aquarium 10 gallon

[anizato]

Water changes are partially to keep nitrates in check, but you shouldn't do a water change during a cycle (unless you have livestock in the tank, it's called soft cycling). Doing a wc during the cycle just makes it take longer because you're removing the nutrients the bacteria is using to populate the tank.

 

Do some reading on the nitrogen cycle so you have a better understanding on what's going on in your tank right now.

 

Damn, so I effed up a little.

 

I took tests after a couple of hours after I changed 10% and this is the read:

 

Ammonia looked exactly the same at around 0 to 0.1 (according to my daltonism LOL)

Nitrates remained high, between 5&10

pH rose to 7.9

 

Does this mean I have a healthy growing population of Nitrifying bacteria that oxidize Ammonia (Nitrosonomas/Nitrosococcus) and the Nitrobacter (Nitrate oxidizing bacteria) are growing at a slower rate, and soon Nitrosomonas will cease to exist?

 

Is the goal to have enough Nitrobacter living in there to keep things going, but too many Nitrobacter is dangerous?

[Chew_Magna]

An API test will never read zero ammonia. They just don't. What you have there is as close to zero as they can get.

 

The bacteria population will grow according to the bioload in the tank. The initial cycle we do in our tanks will only support an extremely small bioload, that's why you add fish very slowly, the tank has to re-adjust for every fish that goes in. The tank will continue to adjust this way through it's life time. As you add more livestock, the bacteria population will grow, if you remove livestock then the bacteria will die off a little and balance out again according to the food source provided to it (you'll see this through various critters in the tank, pods, hydroids, feather dusters, mini brittle stars, snails, they'll all follow this rule of self regulating population based on food sources). You can boost the growth and sort of fool the bacteria into behaving like there's a stocked tank by manually adding a food source for them, whether it be pure ammonia, or just feeding the tank on a regular basis, even though there are no fish in the tank. That food will break down into ammonia and give the bacteria something to munch on. I think what some people do is after their tank is cycled, they add 3ml or so of pure ammonia and see how long it takes for it to be processed out. (I might be wrong here) but I think you want it gone in about an hour or so. Once the tank can do that then it's ready for your first WC and livestock (also keeping an eye on that nitrite reading, that's just as deadly as ammonia).

 

TL;DR: Keep feeding the bacteria and the population won't die off.

 

I'm not all herpy derpy about nitrates like some people are. A certain amount of trates and phos are required for coral to even live (remember that coral has algae living inside it and that algae needs the stuff to survive). My tank ran perfectly fine at 40ppm for a long time, crept up to +80ppm, and none of my coral cared, not even the sps. Now that my fuge has really kicked in it's dropped to 0ppm without me ever doing a WC from the time it was +80ppm. Take that with a grain of salt, not everyone has the same results.

 

I practically never test my water. This is maybe three or four months without a WC and topping off with tap water for a month or more.

 

https://flic.kr/p/kUsuF5'>

 

https://flic.kr/p/kUsueJ'>

 

I don't dose aside from iodine and calcium so I'm probably going to do a WC soon just to put some trace elements back in the water.

[el_ote]

Chew is right on. regarding the ammonia and nitrates, i would(did) get some store ammonia (just make sure it has no additives) and add a couple drops to the tank. (literally a couple of drops, we did a few in our 40 at work and the ammonia was a solid green for days) after the couple of drops mix in for a few minutes, test the tank for ammonia. next day, test again, if 0 ammonia, add a couple drops ammonia test to see level, then test the next day. if youre at 0, do a 20-30% water change, test nitrates nitrites, but you should really be good to go by then. i started a couple tanks like that.

BEFORE YOU START, my procedure above is only if you have no livestock in tank. like i said, its easy to overdose ammonia and itll take a while to bring it down.

just the way i did it. worked for me, others can let you know other ways as well...

[anizato]

Cool, you guys are a great help!

 

So I live in the bay, and I decided I should go as organic as possible (yeah yeah effing hippy ) and got some bay shrimp (tiny ones), the dude at the market looked at me weird when I asked him for a pinch of these.

 

I rinsed one in some saltwater to defrost it a little and let it drop in my tank. Right before though, I took tests and they read:

 

Nitrate - 0

Nitrite - between 0 & 0.5 (closer to 0)

Ammonia - 0 (as it has been)

kH - 160

pH - 8.0

 

I will remove the piece in an hour or so, retest the water immediately and retest later at night.

 

And no, I don't have any livestock. I am holding back as much as possible.

 

By the way, Chew_Magna, when you dose iodine and calcium, how much do you do so? or does that depend on your bioload not only your volume of water?

 

Thanks fellas

[Chew_Magna]

By the way, Chew_Magna, when you dose iodine and calcium, how much do you do so? or does that depend on your bioload not only your volume of water?

 

Thanks fellas

You're supposed to test for whatever you dose so you don't accidentally overdose anything. I don't though, and I only dose a small amount maybe once a month (if I remember to). The stuff I have is some odd Coralife liquid supplements and I put maybe half the recommended dosage for my gallon capacity.

[noobofreefs]

I don't think you need to worry about dosing anything in a 10 gallon. (Especially when it's your first tank) Stay on top of your water changes and you should be fine.

[anizato]

I had the bay shrimp in there for 2 hours. Took a test that took Ammonia from 0ppm in 4 days up to 0.5ppm. 9 hours of work go by and I took another mini test:

 

Ammonia 0

Nitrite 0

Nitrate 0.5

pH 8.1

 

 

wtf!? add another and leave it in there for longer? Do I have a healthy population of Ammonia & Nitrite eaters?

[el_ote]

I never used the shrimp method, but my understanding is that u have to let the sucker rot in there. the rotting shrimp releases the ammonia. sounds like you just dipped it in. thats why I chose the drops of ammonia method, no waiting to up the ammonia.

[anizato]

LOL werd!

 

I'll just leave it in there for a whole day, see what happens.

[Chew_Magna]

You want it in there long enough that it starts falling apart.

[anizato]

OK guys I had to do a top-off today, just about a pint.
The shrimp has been in there for only 24hrs, just a tad slimy - not falling apart yet LOL. So I decided to do a test just to see where we are at.

For those of you interested, here are the results:

 

Sal: 1.026

Ammonia: 0.25-0.3

Nitrate - 10

Nitrite - 0.5

kH - 10 dkH or 179ppm

pH - 8.0

 

Thanks for helping and following.

[el_ote]

patience. looking good so far. remember most people recommend a month minimum for a cycle. let your ammonia spike(let the shrimp decay) and watch it come back down and the nitrates go up. after no more nitrites are detectable along with the ammonia, do a water change to bring down your nitrates! sounds like your on the right track! have you narrowed down your stocking list?

[anizato]

 

sounds like your on the right track! have you narrowed down your stocking list?

 

yeah. I have these guys selected from LiveAquaria.com

 

CUC

1 Sexy Shrimp

1 Mexican Turbo Snail

1 Super Tongan Nassarius Snail

1 Halloween Hermit Crab

 

Down the road:

 

1 Yellow Goby

1 Pistol Shrimp

 

1 or 2 Clowns

 

 

I am also thinking about beginning a separate copepod&amphipod culture in one or two 1gal bottles and feed it phytoplankton. By the time I can add a sump I'll have a healthy population of pods for it.

 

What do you think?

[el_ote]

for a newly cycled tank with most likely inly a small amount of algae, thats probably a good size. not sure if the cost of shipping would scare me away from ordering online tho. john at reefcleaners.org includes shipping in his premade packs, but it may be overkill for a fresh tank as he loves to throw in more than listed! I ended up with lots of shells...lol.

ive never cultured anything so I have no experience there.

any lfs in the area where yyou can get the snails? while you wait on the cycle, you can explore lfs'

wait a min. youre in the city huh. if you can get around, try aquatic collection in hayward, aqua exotic in belmont, and neptunes aquatics if you're ever near my neck of the woods. theres a cool guy I found on craigslist thats in daly city you can get the CUC from. no sexies tho. il pm u his info.

[anizato]

I emailed ReefCleaners.org, and John suggested I start with:

 

10 Dwarf Ceriths
3 Nassarius
4 Florida Ceriths
4 Nerites

 

Haven't placed an order or anything, but now I know what I can begin with. I was going to go for ONE of each of them critters, but it seems like I can add many more?

 

 

After 48 hours of the shrimp laying in there, starting to look slimy, we are finally starting to see a cycle begin (it seems):

 

Ammonia: 0.25

Nitrite: 0.5

Nitrate: 20

kH: 9dkH = 161.1ppm

Calcium: 460

Phosphate: 0.25

pH: 7.9

Salt: 1.026

 

Nitrate doubled from 10, Nitrite remained the same as well as Ammonia, pH decreased from 8.0 and kH dropped from 179.

 

Looking good, eh? What do you guys interpret?

[Chew_Magna]

Reefcleaners is a good place to go with but you need to be careful ordering from him. The man can't count, if you order 10 of something you'll get 40 or more.

[anizato]

Reefcleaners is a good place to go with but you need to be careful ordering from him. The man can't count, if you order 10 of something you'll get 40 or more.

LOL! Should I put some of them in the tiny refugium? Why would he have me sacrifice so many animals?

[anizato]

Although I haven't finished my cycle, it is however, nearing its end, and I have decided on my livestock (ideal-list):

 

I wanted to start with a Snail based CUC with a Blue Ricordea.

 

After a week, add:

4 sexy shrimp & MiniCarpet Anemone & Pistol Shrimp

 

2 weeks later

2 Oceralis Clown ( I have read these are the smallest of them? )

 

2-3 weeks later

1 Yellow Watchman Goby

 

2 weeks later

1 Torch & Bubble Tip Anemone

 

 

These are my questions to the pros:

 

Can you have more than one Ricordea growing together on the same rock?

Do Anemones eat copepods? Can they survive off of them, or what should I feed them (gel, plankton, pellets)? Because I have read several methods and need to know from you.

In what order would you add all this livestock? How long would you take to add them all?

Cheers!

[Icywater]

First off, you shouldn't get a anemone until your tank is 1 year old. Anemones need very stable tanks. Carpet anemones can eat fish. But please don't get a anemone until your tank is mature.

[rolyat113]

I don't know about the anemone, but I would add the goby first. From what I've read, clown fish are very territorial and if you add them first they will establish their territory and cause problems for the goby when you add him later. I'm preparing to add my goby this weekend.

[noobofreefs]

1. Yes

 

2.I've had success feeding pretty much whatever, just target feed and it will be fine.

 

3. Hold off on the anemones, at least until you've had your fish for a few months and everything.is stable. Everything else is fine, I think. I don't see the clowns being a problem territory wise, because clowns and gobies occupy different areas of the tank. If it was a six-line or something that could be problematic, but for a YWG you'll be fine.

[anizato]

Thanks for the advice guys. I really take it to heart.

 

So check it out. Here I have the results of a 5 day cycle:

 

I have been cycling for 10 days in a 10gal nano. The first 5 days there was no Ammonia presence, so I threw in a rotting bay shrimp to spike it up.

I have monitored daily, except for yesterday, and did a 5th day extraction. Here are the results of the test before extraction:

Ammonia - 0.3-0.4
Nitrite - 0-0.1
Nitrate - 30
Calcium - 500
Phosphate - 0-0.1
kH - 9dKh =161.1ppm
pH - 8.2
Gravity - 1.026

Im 10 days new at this so I don't exactly know how to interpret these results.

These are my questions to the pros:

Is that an Ammonia spike? Ammonia has been: (shrimp went in 3/22)
3/21 A=0, Ni=0, Na=0
3/22 A=0, Ni=0, Na=0
3/23 A=0.25, Ni=0.5, Na=10
3/24 A=0.25, Ni=0.5, Na=20
3/25 A=0.15, Ni=0, Na=15
3/26 no activity
3/27 A=0.4, Ni=0.1, Na=30

Am I essentially just waiting for Nitrites and Ammonia to be undetectable again?
Do I need to add another shrimp and let it decay another 5 days (or longer)?

Once Ammonia and Nitrites go down to 0, 40% WC, then can I acclimate a CUC with that water change (drip method)?

How soon after this can I add Live Coral?

I appreciate any help you can give.

[Icywater]

I assume your using API test kit from the picture?

API is very inaccurate. I would wait about a month after tank setup to put coral in.

It doesn't really matter if you want to put the clownish or goby first. For me I put my clownish first and then my yellow watchman, But its your choice.

[anizato]

I assume your using API test kit from the picture?

API is very inaccurate. I would wait about a month after tank setup to put coral in.

It doesn't really matter if you want to put the clownish or goby first. For me I put my clownish first and then my yellow watchman, But its your choice.

 

Yeah, API test kits.

Thanks for the info man.

 

On another note, I don't know exactly how long Ammonia spikes should last, but from what I have read, it differs from tank to tank; so I thought it would be cool to track this thing being that it is cured Live Rock in a 10gNano.

 

Yesterday (day 13) there was an Ammonia spike:

 

Ammonia - 1

Nitrite - 0

Nitrate - 20

 

Today (day 14) the results are these:

 

Ammonia - 0.1

Nitrite - 0.25

Nitrate - 20

 

Quite a change, eh?

I though it was pretty cool that Nitrosomonas worked that quickly. Now it is time for the Nitrobacter to get to work.

[anizato]

TWO WEEKS

 

This should help put things into perspective. Plus I had extra time off (obviously LOL).

 

When would you perform the first water change, and how much % would you change?

 

In the tank since day 1: LiveSand, cured LiveRock, Heater, Powerhead, InnerFilter, AquaClear30 running with LiveRock Rubble.

 

Thanks.