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Overflow Box?


SmoothSmoke

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Hey Smooth

 

I have the tank you linked in your first post. I know you already purchased your overflow box but I feel like I have to tell my side of the story since a few people didn't feel like it was a smart design.

 

First it does drain slower than a full siphon system, I wont argue that. It does however still skim the surface very well, stays completely silent, and takes up next to zero space inside the display. This design requires quite a bit of planning and even I didn't get it perfectly correct right off the bat. In order to work well it needs a matched pump that is equal to the draining speed of water using only gravity. There is a smaller margin of error. Too powerful and your tank will almost always overflow (there is a built in safety mechanism but its still nerve-wracking watching it happen) When there is too much flow from your return pump the water will rise above the bulkhead going all the way up to the rim of the tank. When this happens the bulkhead is now completely submerged in water, this causes a vacuum to happen inside the pipe and the drain becomes a siphon. The water will now quickly drain until an airhole is made. This will cause a sucking sound and the cycle will repeat.

 

If your pump isn't powerful enough nothing bad will ever happen but your water level will be very low as it is based on the size of the screen.

 

My system also uses 2 drains. This allows for a larger margin of error and isn't effected by blockages from anemones, wandering snails, starfish etc.

 

Tuned correctly I think it is a very cool and honestly very simple design, it just requires more planning than a box.

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Nanofreak79

The 1.0 sicce should work great. I'm using the .5 for my 17 gallon. I like to use pumps/power heads for flow.

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Hey Smooth

 

I have the tank you linked in your first post. I know you already purchased your overflow box but I feel like I have to tell my side of the story since a few people didn't feel like it was a smart design.

 

First it does drain slower than a full siphon system, I wont argue that. It does however still skim the surface very well, stays completely silent, and takes up next to zero space inside the display. This design requires quite a bit of planning and even I didn't get it perfectly correct right off the bat. In order to work well it needs a matched pump that is equal to the draining speed of water using only gravity. There is a smaller margin of error. Too powerful and your tank will almost always overflow (there is a built in safety mechanism but its still nerve-wracking watching it happen) When there is too much flow from your return pump the water will rise above the bulkhead going all the way up to the rim of the tank. When this happens the bulkhead is now completely submerged in water, this causes a vacuum to happen inside the pipe and the drain becomes a siphon. The water will now quickly drain until an airhole is made. This will cause a sucking sound and the cycle will repeat.

 

If your pump isn't powerful enough nothing bad will ever happen but your water level will be very low as it is based on the size of the screen.

 

My system also uses 2 drains. This allows for a larger margin of error and isn't effected by blockages from anemones, wandering snails, starfish etc.

 

Tuned correctly I think it is a very cool and honestly very simple design, it just requires more planning than a box.

 

Since the pump/drains are evenly matched. If something were to block a hole, wouldn't it still flood? Or would it just go to a full siphon on the 1 hole you think?

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Since the pump/drains are evenly matched. If something were to block a hole, wouldn't it still flood? Or would it just go to a full siphon on the 1 hole you think?

 

I've done a few tests where I completely cover one with my hand. It raises the water level and causes the other to go into a siphon. The water level then drops until air is allowed in. It will then rise back up and repeat. This causes a flushing sound so it can be a warning sign that something is wrong. Now in order to do this I have to cover one of them completely. Covering one or even both of them say 50% doesn't do much due to the slotted design. The slots are probably 2X larger than the actual hole they go through in the bulkhead.

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Good to know. I am assuming I could just use a valve to adjust the pump as needed. I would like to get away from big black boxes in the tank.

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Yes, that is how I have it now. Pump is closely matched and then I have a valve that I adjust between 80-100% open. It can handle 100% power but I usually close the valve just a tiny bit to be on the cautious side.

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SmoothSmoke

Thanks for the help Scorched.

 

What are your thoughts on this article? http://saltaquarium.about.com/od/sumpoflowsetup/ht/sumpoverflow.htm

 

The author gives tips on how to prevent an overflow in the sump by having the correct amount of water in it from the get go.

 

Also, to prevent an overflow in the DT, can the return area be lessened? So let's say the drain line is clogged by critters. The return pump will keep on pumping to the DT till return chamber is empty? So making the return zone a tad smaller than what it'd take for the DT to overflow be something that will work to prevent an overflow?

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Yep both of those are correct. My sump is only 1/2 full with water. When the pump is shut off it fills to about 80% full. about 2-3 additional gallons of water. If every drain line was 100% clogged the sump would empty into the display tank. If the sump is sectioned off and has a return pump chamber that will empty until and leave the rest at a normal height. This small chamber probably only holds maybe 1-2 gallons of water. If your display tank has an extra 1" - 1.5" leeway at the top it could probably hold that additional water. Either way the return pump will run dry and eventually break. But doing both of those will make sure you never have gallons of water on your floor.

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Yep both of those are correct. My sump is only 1/2 full with water. When the pump is shut off it fills to about 80% full. about 2-3 additional gallons of water. If every drain line was 100% clogged the sump would empty into the display tank. If the sump is sectioned off and has a return pump chamber that will empty until and leave the rest at a normal height. This small chamber probably only holds maybe 1-2 gallons of water. If your display tank has an extra 1" - 1.5" leeway at the top it could probably hold that additional water. Either way the return pump will run dry and eventually break. But doing both of those will make sure you never have gallons of water on your floor.

 

Was waiting for you to respond to this as I know your system is tested quite thoroughly as its been runnin a while now. Very well thought out design and imo looks better than the box you designed it to mimic.

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SmoothSmoke

Yep both of those are correct. My sump is only 1/2 full with water. When the pump is shut off it fills to about 80% full. about 2-3 additional gallons of water. If every drain line was 100% clogged the sump would empty into the display tank. If the sump is sectioned off and has a return pump chamber that will empty until and leave the rest at a normal height. This small chamber probably only holds maybe 1-2 gallons of water. If your display tank has an extra 1" - 1.5" leeway at the top it could probably hold that additional water. Either way the return pump will run dry and eventually break. But doing both of those will make sure you never have gallons of water on your floor.

 

Thanks! Makes much more sense now. BTW, love the way your tank looks, very sleek and clean. That was something I was going for with my build, but caved in and bought the overflow box.

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