Jump to content
eolith

Tiny pink swimming things (lots of em overnight after adding CUC)

Recommended Posts

eolith

Ok, so they stated these are parasitic trematodes in the larval stage:

 

 

A quick look through Craig Young's Atlas of Marine Invertebrate Larvae leads me to think it is the cercaria stage (larval stage) of a parasitic trematode.

Dean

R. Dean Grubbs, Ph.D.
Associate Scholar Scientist
Florida State University Coastal and Marine Laboratory

 

 

with a follow up reply:

 

 

You're right - and that fits with his source - he probably got an infected snail in his batch of animals from the supplier. I feel shamed that a fish person successfully identified an invert larva before I did.......

Sandra Brooke Ph.D.
Associate Scholar Scientist
Florida State University Coastal and Marine Lab.

 

 

now I have to figure out what to do about them.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
eolith

Just got another email:

 

Hi Jonathan

Below is a little more information about your mystery animal. Trematodes are parasitic on fish and have a very short larval lifespan so it is possible that your rapid disappearance could be partly because they found a home on your fish. I know nothing about keeping aquarium fish, but I would assume that infection is a possibility and take preventative measures if possible. Tough price to pay for trying to take care of your tanks! Maybe a quarantine tank is a good idea if you are bringing in creatures from the ocean.
Good luck
Sandra

 

Hi Sandra,

The forked tail is absolutely diagnostic of a cercaria larva of a trematode. I'm guessing that the aquarist has a snail somewhere in his tank. The cercaria hatch from the redia stage, which is embedded in the tissues of the snail, then they look for something to parasitize, generally a fish. The cercaria bores into the fish and forms a metacercaria cyst that is transmitted to the definitive host (often a bird) when the fish is eaten. Unfortunately, the creatures that quickly disappeared are probably residing in one of his aquarium fish! I'm pasting in a generalized life cycle diagram that I stole from Armand Kuris' website. Hope that helps.

Craig

 

So, lesson is to QT even the CUC.

Share this post


Link to post
TaterTot24

This makes me paranoid... I have a CUC from ReefCleaners coming this week...

Share this post


Link to post
Kellie in CA

That is crazy!

I received an order from Reef Cleaners last week and haven't had any issues yet, it's probably just an odd fluke. I have no fish though... I wonder what happens to them if there is no host for them in the tank?

Share this post


Link to post
Archaic37

That is crazy!

 

I received an order from Reef Cleaners last week and haven't had any issues yet, it's probably just an odd fluke. I have no fish though... I wonder what happens to them if there is no host for them in the tank?

Probably die off if there is no host. Many inverts have a ton of young because of high death rates.

 

This statement kind of sounds stuck up to me, like us hobbyists shouldnt be able to identify odd organisms.

 

 

I feel shamed that a fish person successfully identified an invert larva before I did.......

Share this post


Link to post
eolith

These biology folks are awesome, helping me out for no reason whatsoever.

 

Hehe, it wasn't us they were referring to, but each other. The email was forwarded to what looked like the entire department, including other schools (Virginia Institute of Marine Science, and Univ of Oregon).

 

I sent them this email:

 

You are correct, I should have quarantined them and I did add several snails (Dwarf Ceriths, Florida Ceriths, Zig-zag Periwinkles) the night before I saw these. As I just got my tank up and going, I was planning on starting my QT tanks this week, bad timing. :/

If I may take up more of your time: considering the only fish I have are two rather small Green Chromis fish, approximately 1”-1.25” in length, and these were rather large in comparison, they could become parasites on the fish? I was watching the fish, and I saw nothing stuck to them, nor were they ingesting them.

You can see one fish in the background, on the right, in this image:
http://www.exile-guild.com/eolithics/images/aquarium/unidentified/PinkThings/IMG_4889.JPG

both of them here:
http://www.exile-guild.com/eolithics/images/aquarium/unidentified/PinkThings/IMG_4890.JPG

probably the best size comparison (as it was closest to the camera at the time):
http://www.exile-guild.com/eolithics/images/aquarium/unidentified/PinkThings/IMG_4895.JPG


How can I identify if the fish were infected? I see no outward signs as they swim around.

You guys rock, by the way. The fast, detailed, and educational responses are fantastic. I am sharing your responses with other aquarists here to spread the information:
http://www.nano-reef.com/topic/340619-tiny-pink-swimming-things-lots-of-em-overnight-after-adding-cuc

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Polarcollision

Probably die off if there is no host. Many inverts have a ton of young because of high death rates.

 

This statement kind of sounds stuck up to me, like us hobbyists shouldnt be able to identify odd organisms.

 

 

I feel shamed that a fish person successfully identified an invert larva before I did.......

I read that comment as ribbing between the two Ph.D.s, assuming that Sandra was cc'd because she's the FSU expert on inverts and Dean is the fish expert.

 

very cool find, even if it is a pest...

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
metrokat

If it is what they said it is, how come it came in on a snail if it is a fish parasite?

Share this post


Link to post
jc2014

If it is what they said it is, how come it came in on a snail if it is a fish parasite?

Wow freaky, they switch up hosts as they go through their lifecycle, kinda gross. Interesting CDC diagram in this wiki article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trematode_lifecycle_stages).

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
phoenix91

If it is what they said it is, how come it came in on a snail if it is a fish parasite?

The snail might be the intermediate host,one stage develops on the snail and another life stage uses the fish as a host. Happens with human and animal parasites all the time.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Kingsley (Ned)

Freaky indeed. These things scare the hell out of me.

 

Someone warned me about billharzia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis) before I went to Egypt. Having grow up fishing, I thought I'd try my luck on the Nile... Wasn't too interested in going near the water once I did a little research.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Eclipse

I'm honestly fascinated by this, I just hope it doesn't mess up your tank in the long run.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
jc2014

Freaky indeed. These things scare the hell out of me.

 

Someone warned me about billharzia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis) before I went to Egypt. Having grow up fishing, I thought I'd try my luck on the Nile... Wasn't too interested in going near the water once I did a little research.

Holy moly, I'm wearing gloves from here on out. Maybe goggles too! Even better, a full face helmet.

eolith, please keep us updated.

 

I'm honestly fascinated by this, I just hope it doesn't mess up your tank in the long run.

Ditto.

Share this post


Link to post
phoenix91

Freaky indeed. These things scare the hell out of me.

 

Someone warned me about billharzia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosomiasis[/url]) before I went to Egypt. Having grow up fishing, I thought I'd try my luck on the Nile... Wasn't too interested in going near the water once I did a little research.

Went I was at university we took a field trip to Malawi and were sort of warned about schistosomiasis; I did research on cichlids for 2 weeks and spent most of the time In the water and was fine, however one of the PhDs who was with us did end up getting this, he looked awful about 6 months after week got back. Out of 15 of us he was the only one who got it.

 

 

It's really interesting that you ended up with a parasitic Trematode in the tank. Aare you planning tn treating the tank for flukes? I would be worried Incase some of them have gone dormant.

Share this post


Link to post
RayWhisperer

While I don't know the exact nature of the parasite, it is possible the fish will be fine with it. They did mention something about birds in the email.

 

That reminded me of another parasite (don't remember the name) on FW fish. It shows up as tiny little black spots under the scales. Think ich, but black. That particular parasite hosts fish as an intermediate stage, and birds as the final stage. So, in order for it to complete it's life cycle the infected fish needs to be consumed by a bird.

 

Whatever the prognosis, I hope it's something you can effectively eliminate. Good luck.

Share this post


Link to post
eolith

I had turned on the pump and they were all surface bound, so I'm pretty sure most of them went into the filter. However, I'm keeping a close eye on the fish.

 

Essentially the larvae hitchhike on an infected snail, release into the water, attach to a fish, a bird then eats the fish and it's poop gets dropped off in the water, and somehow ends up on the snail again.

 

In the meantime I'm getting my QTs up and running.

Share this post


Link to post
DannaM

GO DUCKS !!!! ( U of O)

 

Wow, so glad you got an ID but very scary. I've quarantined so much but never my CUC. Live and learn. Thanks for making this post and not giving up on an ID.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
MikeTR

This makes me paranoid... I have a CUC from ReefCleaners coming this week...

shit.. me too

Share this post


Link to post
Eclipse

shit.. me too

Ditto.

Share this post


Link to post
MikeTR

trematodes.. aka flukes. Well I for sure know that the treatment for these (prazipro) is reef safe..

Share this post


Link to post
eolith

keep in mind there are many kinds of trematodes. Flukes are more scaly, there are worms, too. One article I read said they could appear as black dots in the gills of the fish.

Share this post


Link to post
metrokat

shit.. me too

me three. TOMORROW ACTUALLY.

 

keep in mind there are many kinds of trematodes. Flukes are more scaly, there are worms, too. One article I read said they could appear as black dots in the gills of the fish.

So what EXACTLY went down before these evil things were released. I mean what did you do, step by step when you got your snails.

Share this post


Link to post
eolith

Okay, here's the story:

 

Received the box. Opened the box (taking pictures along the way). Saw the upside down crab, wasn't happy. Realized there was nothing to keep the bags from sliding all around in the cooler, was less happy. I then proceeded to do my best to identify what was what. A buddy and I ordered together, and nothing was labeled.

 

Prior to receiving my shipment, John (from Reefcleaners) sent an email with instructions to get the critters acclimatized:

Acclimation (All Animals)-

 

1. Float the bag in your tank to get them used to the temperature in your aquarium.

 

2. Wait 15 minutes.

 

3. Add contents to tank. Discard Water and Paper towels if any.

 

Important: Snails may go through shock during shipping, and be closed when they arrive. You should give them plenty of time to come out of their shells and move around before deciding they didn't make the trip. Ceriths may go dormant for up to 3 days.

 

You may find this to be different than the acclimation procedure you are used to carrying out. The reason we ask our customers to use this procedure is because our snails and crabs live intertidally, and can handle drastic swings in ph/salinity without a problem. However, what they can't handle is toxic levels of ammonia. During the shipping process, ammonia levels in the shipping bags build, while the ph level goes down.

As the ph goes down the toxicity of ammonia also goes down. However, when your tank water with normal ph is introduced to the shipping bags, and the ph rises, so does the toxicity of the ammonia, and you will be poisoning the livestock. Please don't do this. Any other method of acclimation voids the Alive Arrival Guarantee. If you are a pro and know how to deal with these issues with ammonia neutralizing drips that may be a good idea for urchins, porcelains and true crabs. (If you are however unsure how to carry out this acclimation procedure please do not practice it with our

livestock)

I followed these instructions as best I could. I sent emails to John asking for clarification on what was shipped, because the counts and appearance were hard to discern from the actual order and the images on the website (being a noob I didn't want to mess it up). Some items were missing, the ruby mithrax was looking sickly, but I put all the bags into the tank to get the temps up and matching my tank. After about 20 minutes I put the crab in. The crab did not move or respond to my touch at all, and I was concerned it had already died. 10 minutes later it had moved into a small, nearby crevice from which it never moved; except the final time I saw it it had fallen off the rock, was upside down on the sandbed, and was dead. I also added the mixed bag of hermits, as I knew they were mine. They were immediately off and running.

 

After waiting for an email explaining what to do and working with my friend to try and identify what belonged to who, we had just decided to just divvy up as best we could and get the critters into the tanks. It was about that point that John replied stating that I could send pictures, otherwise call on Monday. Well, we weren't going to keep the little guys in bags all weekend, so I set about taking pictures and we split up the bags, and I started introducing all the snails except one bag. No drip acclimation. I placed them individually around the rocks to ensure wide coverage and to avoid any potential fall damage. The email warned the snails might be slow to get going, so I didn't expect the snails to get going. The small ones moved quickly, the bigger guys took longer to get up and going.

 

I went through one bag (which we decided was the dwarf ceriths) picking out all the debris. Apparently this was a big scoop from the tidal area and placed directly into the bag. There were shell fragments, snails, rocks, pebbles, empty shells, a couple hermit crabs, and the snails. This took a rather long time. Since the ceriths have long conical shells, I picked out anything that was different. I found 4 of the more typical, round snail shells, (which I posted in my other ID thread) and while waiting to identify them I had them floating in some water in a plastic bowl in the tank. Once I identified them I dropped them in (literally, this time). That was it, other than feeding the fish and heading off to my son's cub scouts overnighter. I left around 7pm.

 

Next day:

I came home around 0830, and immediately saw the cloud of "pinkies". I had to get my son and put him to bed (he was asleep in his sleeping bag in the car, strapped in his car seat :P). The lights come on shortly before 0830. I immediately saw the cloud of "pinkies" in a roughly columnar shape. I realized that I had left my pumps off all night (I turn them off before feeding) because the water wasn't moving at all. I grabbed my camera, took a few photos, then fed the fish. I observed them for a bit to make sure they weren't trying to eat the pinkies. I then had to take care of a few things. When I came back I took a few more pictures, decided to turn on the pumps (to see if they'd be swept up in the filter floss, then sat at my computer to upload the pictures. I took care of a few other things, and next time I looked at the tank, they were all gone.

Share this post


Link to post
MikeTR

me three. TOMORROW ACTUALLY.

 

So what EXACTLY went down before these evil things were released. I mean what did you do, step by step when you got your snails.

you has snails yet? I was supposed to get mine yesterday, but seems it takes USPS a whole day to make it between sorting facilities that are 20 minutes apart. Temps in low 80s yesterday and today, so I don't think I have anything to worry about yet.

Share this post


Link to post
metrokat

you has snails yet? I was supposed to get mine yesterday, but seems it takes USPS a whole day to make it between sorting facilities that are 20 minutes apart. Temps in low 80s yesterday and today, so I don't think I have anything to worry about yet.

Yes I got my shipment. USPS tracking showed nothing till well after the box was delivered.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recommended Discussions

×
×
  • Create New...